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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 15:34:22 GMT
So I've just about finished reading Leia: Princess of Alderaan. Amilyn Holdo plays a significant role in this book and boy did they retcon the hell out of that character!
In the book, Holdo is a gangly, goofy weirdo who says off-the-wall, bizarre things, but whose unusual perspective tends to help solve problems. She's actually a very likable character. But she isn't anything like the character from TLJ with the exception of having a penchant to die her hair. She's also from Gatalenta, which seems an odd pairing with her ball-busting routine in TLJ.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Mar 9, 2018 2:20:59 GMT
So I've just about finished reading Leia: Princess of Alderaan. Amilyn Holdo plays a significant role in this book and boy did they retcon the hell out of that character! In the book, Holdo is a gangly, goofy weirdo who says off-the-wall, bizarre things, but whose unusual perspective tends to help solve problems. She's actually a very likable character. But she isn't anything like the character from TLJ with the exception of having a penchant to die her hair. She's also from Gatalenta, which seems an odd pairing with her ball-busting routine in TLJ. This is the problem I have with the novelizations and EU novels under Disney: the retconning. They put these PC Disney commercial characters onscreen (storylines too, to be fair). Then they hire people with real writing talent to retcon all of it. In the Legends EU days, the writers were inspired by the onscreen characters and storylines to expand upon it. That process is what built the fanbase and helped sustain it during onscreen downtime. Although that EU process also opened the door to garbage EU along with the good. But it worked. Disney is basically throwing out the baby with the bath water. They're treating the established fanbase like nerds who should resign to book clubs that pretend the EU product and onscreen product are the same thing. But most of us (after 2 episodic movies) can clearly see it is not. That's part of the reason of the backlash. Many of the fanbase aren't buying into it. If you can't see at least some correlation between the EU product and what's onscreen, you can't be as emotionally invested. You can't suspend your disbelief because there's too much that's unbelievable in between. It's enough to make me afraid to read anything coming out of Disney SW except what's written by Timothy Zahn. What your recommendations? What's your take?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2018 16:23:21 GMT
So I've just about finished reading Leia: Princess of Alderaan. Amilyn Holdo plays a significant role in this book and boy did they retcon the hell out of that character! In the book, Holdo is a gangly, goofy weirdo who says off-the-wall, bizarre things, but whose unusual perspective tends to help solve problems. She's actually a very likable character. But she isn't anything like the character from TLJ with the exception of having a penchant to die her hair. She's also from Gatalenta, which seems an odd pairing with her ball-busting routine in TLJ. This is the problem I have with the novelizations and EU novels under Disney: the retconning. They put these PC Disney commercial characters onscreen (storylines too, to be fair). Then they hire people with real writing talent to retcon all of it. In the Legends EU days, the writers were inspired by the onscreen characters and storylines to expand upon it. That process is what built the fanbase and helped sustain it during onscreen downtime. Although that EU process also opened the door to garbage EU along with the good. But it worked. Disney is basically throwing out the baby with the bath water. They're treating the established fanbase like nerds who should resign to book clubs that pretend the EU product and onscreen product are the same thing. But most of us (after 2 episodic movies) can clearly see it is not. That's part of the reason of the backlash. Many of the fanbase aren't buying into it. If you can't see at least some correlation between the EU product and what's onscreen, you can't be as emotionally invested. You can't suspend your disbelief because there's too much that's unbelievable in between. It's enough to make me afraid to read anything coming out of Disney SW except what's written by Timothy Zahn. What your recommendations? What's your take? Most of the post-Disney novels I've read were really good and added interesting depth to OT and ST story lines. And almost all of them released before TLJ included TFA-related clues as to the future of the saga. None of those clues were paid off in TLJ. Much like TFA's own clues were ignored in TLJ. But for pure SW story consumption, I was very happy with Lords of the Sith, Tarkin, Bloodline, Lost Stars, Phasma, Thrawn, A New Dawn, Dark Disciple and the Aftermath trilogy. They all had interesting stuff in them. I read most of the other new canon novels and they were just okay. Even this Leia book and the Ahsoka book had interesting story points in them, even though they were not very good.
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Post by shannondegroot on Mar 11, 2018 0:44:11 GMT
Is her hair actually Purple or does she dye it? I'd rather it actually be purple.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 11, 2018 5:14:14 GMT
Easily the least likeable character in the Disney Wars movies.
Well, besides Rey.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 15:00:45 GMT
Is her hair actually Purple or does she dye it? I'd rather it actually be purple. She dyes it. In the book, she goes complete rainbow at one point.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Mar 12, 2018 16:18:57 GMT
an odd bird female character would be welcome at this point, the female characters were all essentially the same heroic leader types, maybe with the exception of young Ashoka and Asaji Ventress. But why must they flatten them in the movies to fit generic mainstream characters until nothing remarkable is left about the original character design.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 17:28:25 GMT
an odd bird female character would be welcome at this point, the female characters were all essentially the same heroic leader types, maybe with the exception of young Ashoka and Asaji Ventress. But why must they flatten them in the movies to fit generic mainstream characters until nothing remarkable is left about the original character design. The Holdo from the book would make a terrific onscreen character. It's Star Wars, so it's not saying much, but it would have been one of the better chances Star Wars had at an Oscar if Holdo had been scripted like she was in the book and played very well. But instead, we got a feminazi whose apparent sole purpose was to bust Poe's balls. There's irony in all this.
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Post by shinnickneth on Mar 12, 2018 18:53:08 GMT
The Holdo from the book would make a terrific onscreen character. It's Star Wars, so it's not saying much, but it would have been one of the better chances Star Wars had at an Oscar if Holdo had been scripted like she was in the book and played very well. But instead, we got a feminazi whose apparent sole purpose was to bust Poe's balls. There's irony in all this. Poe isn't an innocent though. He's insubordinate, reckless, and the leader of a mutiny who never gets punished for his treason. I've said it before but he should be rotting in a detention block for undermining the cause.
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Mar 12, 2018 18:57:05 GMT
So I've just about finished reading Leia: Princess of Alderaan. Amilyn Holdo plays a significant role in this book and boy did they retcon the hell out of that character! In the book, Holdo is a gangly, goofy weirdo who says off-the-wall, bizarre things, but whose unusual perspective tends to help solve problems. She's actually a very likable character. But she isn't anything like the character from TLJ with the exception of having a penchant to die her hair. She's also from Gatalenta, which seems an odd pairing with her ball-busting routine in TLJ. This is the problem I have with the novelizations and EU novels under Disney: the retconning. They put these PC Disney commercial characters onscreen (storylines too, to be fair). Then they hire people with real writing talent to retcon all of it. In the Legends EU days, the writers were inspired by the onscreen characters and storylines to expand upon it. That process is what built the fanbase and helped sustain it during onscreen downtime. Although that EU process also opened the door to garbage EU along with the good. But it worked.Disney is basically throwing out the baby with the bath water. They're treating the established fanbase like nerds who should resign to book clubs that pretend the EU product and onscreen product are the same thing. But most of us (after 2 episodic movies) can clearly see it is not. That's part of the reason of the backlash. Many of the fanbase aren't buying into it. If you can't see at least some correlation between the EU product and what's onscreen, you can't be as emotionally invested. You can't suspend your disbelief because there's too much that's unbelievable in between. It's enough to make me afraid to read anything coming out of Disney SW except what's written by Timothy Zahn. What your recommendations? What's your take? True, they had some bad along with the good. I've actually gone back to reading the EU (I'm re-reading the Thrawn trilogy at the moment). I think that will be my main way of getting my Star Wars fix from now on... I just can't stomach Disney's Star Wars anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 19:07:45 GMT
The Holdo from the book would make a terrific onscreen character. It's Star Wars, so it's not saying much, but it would have been one of the better chances Star Wars had at an Oscar if Holdo had been scripted like she was in the book and played very well. But instead, we got a feminazi whose apparent sole purpose was to bust Poe's balls. There's irony in all this. Poe isn't an innocent though. He's insubordinate, reckless, and the leader of a mutiny who never gets punished for his treason. I've said it before but he should be rotting in a detention block for undermining the cause. No doubt that's all true. In the reality that was The Last Jedi, Poe probably should have been shot. It's just too bad for him he found himself in an existential crisis and was opposed by what appeared to be abject stupidity. Whereas you can hang him as traitor, you can also hail him as hero.
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Post by shannondegroot on Mar 13, 2018 0:14:12 GMT
Is her hair actually Purple or does she dye it? I'd rather it actually be purple. She dyes it. In the book, she goes complete rainbow at one point. That's so stupid.
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Post by shinnickneth on Mar 13, 2018 3:33:45 GMT
She dyes it. In the book, she goes complete rainbow at one point. That's so stupid. That's what I thought when they brought the character into the movie. Leia should have been in charge the whole time.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Mar 13, 2018 9:45:32 GMT
if did not know better I would have assumed that this character of Holdo was inserted to make fun of female leadership. They did really everything to make the audience shake their heads at her, especially compared to Leia as a standard candle:
- Holdo as an Admiral in a life and death situation dresses in fancy cocktail dresses sporting juvenile, attention-seeking hairstyles and colors - She acts like an incometent and stupid leader eg - without having a set-up reason - not disclosing vital information thereby causing second guessing, double crossing and a mutiny within a few hours - she constantly berates and looks down at her team members - she is given idiotic dialogue like "Godspeed, Rebels (both words are misplaced!) or "Hope is like the sun, you only believe in it when you see it" (too stupid and irrational even to be included in a fortune cookie)
That's not a strong leader that's a caricature.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 13:45:14 GMT
The wardrobe and hairstyle did not jibe with the way the character was scripted/directed/acted. Dern's Holdo was very serious and condescending.
It's just another missed opportunity. If they'd played the character like the wardrobe and hair suggested, and if she acted sort of crazy, spontaneous and maybe a little flighty (like her character in the novel), the plot would have worked the same way with Poe second-guessing her, and, like in the novel, even though she seems at first glance like she has no idea what she's doing, she really does actually know what she's doing, there really is a good plan, etc. (just like how the character plot resolved in the movie). Playing the character this way would have been so much less cliche. It just proves that the writers working on the novels are producing better material than those assigned to the movies.
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