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Post by sostie on Mar 17, 2018 17:30:31 GMT
Why is Iron Man getting attacked by parademons? Why was the Justice League attacked by Chitauri? And it isn't Iron Man...it's the Hulk Buster (and if evidence is to be believed, Tony Stark is not the one it) |
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Post by sostie on Mar 17, 2018 17:31:28 GMT
Good trailer but Captain America's strength appears to be just as inconsistent as ever. Despite being completely overpowered by Loki, he can somehow stop Thanos' fist, someone who they said was the most powerful being in the universe. So Thanos is just another weak MCU villain who isn't much of a threat? And Steppenwolf and Ares were just soooo amazing and invincible. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 17, 2018 23:07:19 GMT
It has nothing to do with...fantenders? It was just an observation. Captain America's strength has been very inconsistent in these movies. Going from being a match for Red Skull who put a small dent in a metal shield, to getting kicked around by Loki, to somehow holding his own much better against Ultron even able to throw him through a concrete pillar and now can stop Thanos' hand. Thanos at least being powerful than Ronan someone that Drax could barely budge and Drax was even stronger than Captain America. I've also seen trailer reaction videos on YouTube and I've seen it pointed out so I'm not the only one who noticed. Red Skull was stronger than Cap, Loki is a Frost Giant, and wow did you get that Ultron fight wrong. You make it sound like he just threw him wholesale through the pillar when he used Ultron's momentum (Ultron was using thrusters to fly at Cap) to send him toward the pillar. Hell, he did it twice when Ultron then flies at him and Cap uses that momentum to have him fly at a train. You can see that Cap was doing what he always does and keep the fight going. People have this idea that MCU villains are weak when nothing in these movies have shown them to be weak. At all. You see Cap struggling against Thanos and automatically think Thanos is weak or Cap is way too strong. Even when it is shown otherwise. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 18, 2018 0:26:25 GMT
It has nothing to do with...fantenders? It was just an observation. Captain America's strength has been very inconsistent in these movies. Going from being a match for Red Skull who put a small dent in a metal shield, to getting kicked around by Loki, to somehow holding his own much better against Ultron even able to throw him through a concrete pillar and now can stop Thanos' hand. Thanos at least being powerful than Ronan someone that Drax could barely budge and Drax was even stronger than Captain America. I've also seen trailer reaction videos on YouTube and I've seen it pointed out so I'm not the only one who noticed. Red Skull was stronger than Cap, Loki is a Frost Giant, and wow did you get that Ultron fight wrong. You make it sound like he just threw him wholesale through the pillar when he used Ultron's momentum (Ultron was using thrusters to fly at Cap) to send him toward the pillar. Hell, he did it twice when Ultron then flies at him and Cap uses that momentum to have him fly at a train. You can see that Cap was doing what he always does and keep the fight going. People have this idea that MCU villains are weak when nothing in these movies have shown them to be weak. At all. You see Cap struggling against Thanos and automatically think Thanos is weak or Cap is way too strong. Even when it is shown otherwise. They're considered weak because the heroes are more memorable than them, which is the opposite of how it was usually done. If anything, the MCU has given us some of the most powerful CBM villains ever (Ego, Dormammu, Surtur). |
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Post by scabab on Mar 18, 2018 0:33:18 GMT
Red Skull was stronger than Cap, Loki is a Frost Giant, and wow did you get that Ultron fight wrong. You make it sound like he just threw him wholesale through the pillar when he used Ultron's momentum (Ultron was using thrusters to fly at Cap) to send him toward the pillar. Hell, he did it twice when Ultron then flies at him and Cap uses that momentum to have him fly at a train. You can see that Cap was doing what he always does and keep the fight going. People have this idea that MCU villains are weak when nothing in these movies have shown them to be weak. At all. You see Cap struggling against Thanos and automatically think Thanos is weak or Cap is way too strong. Even when it is shown otherwise. Where did you get Red Skull being stronger than Captain America from? They seemed evenly matched in strength and as I said Red Skull wasn't even that strong as he only put a small dent in his non Vibranium shield. Him getting kicked around by Loki that was fine and made sense at the time. Then you had Iron Man who physically stood up better to Thor than Loki did. Yet when Captain America fought Iron Man he wasn't getting kicked around at all. Infact Iron Man was told he stood no chance in hand to hand. Against Ultron, he didn't use his momentum against him because Ultron lands infront of Captain America, he stops still and then Captain America throws him through a concrete pillar. There's also Spider-man. So strong that he could casually grab and inspect Winter Soldiers metal arm, his metal arm having more strength than Captain America's arms but when they had their little strength off with the webbing....then Spider-man was overpowered or at the least had to put in far more effort. A bullet from a pistol hurt him in Winter Soldier but Iron Man apparently couldn't knock him out even though he had the physical strength in just MK1 suit to knock a huge metal door off its hinges. |
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 18, 2018 2:07:41 GMT
Inconsistent strength is extremely common in all forms of comic book/superhero stories. It happens all the time in the comics, the cartoons, the tv series', and the movies. The strength is always whatever fits the story/script at that moment. A few tiers up and down, yes. Cap beating Spiderman? Sure. Cap stopping a push from someone like Thanos? Far too big an inconsistency. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 18, 2018 2:20:28 GMT
Iron Man only did better against Thor because Thor was half-assing it, and then the lightning bolt super-charged Tony by 400%.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 18, 2018 20:29:11 GMT
Red Skull was stronger than Cap, Loki is a Frost Giant, and wow did you get that Ultron fight wrong. You make it sound like he just threw him wholesale through the pillar when he used Ultron's momentum (Ultron was using thrusters to fly at Cap) to send him toward the pillar. Hell, he did it twice when Ultron then flies at him and Cap uses that momentum to have him fly at a train. You can see that Cap was doing what he always does and keep the fight going. People have this idea that MCU villains are weak when nothing in these movies have shown them to be weak. At all. You see Cap struggling against Thanos and automatically think Thanos is weak or Cap is way too strong. Even when it is shown otherwise. Where did you get Red Skull being stronger than Captain America from? They seemed evenly matched in strength and as I said Red Skull wasn't even that strong as he only put a small dent in his non Vibranium shield. Him getting kicked around by Loki that was fine and made sense at the time. Then you had Iron Man who physically stood up better to Thor than Loki did. Yet when Captain America fought Iron Man he wasn't getting kicked around at all. Infact Iron Man was told he stood no chance in hand to hand. Against Ultron, he didn't use his momentum against him because Ultron lands infront of Captain America, he stops still and then Captain America throws him through a concrete pillar. There's also Spider-man. So strong that he could casually grab and inspect Winter Soldiers metal arm, his metal arm having more strength than Captain America's arms but when they had their little strength off with the webbing....then Spider-man was overpowered or at the least had to put in far more effort. A bullet from a pistol hurt him in Winter Soldier but Iron Man apparently couldn't knock him out even though he had the physical strength in just MK1 suit to knock a huge metal door off its hinges. Red Skull edged out Cap in their fight by just that much. Iron Man is wearing a suit of advanced armor. And Thor is stronger than Frost Giants. The parallels don't match. What does Loki vs Cap have to do with Cap vs Iron Man? There was never an Iron Man vs Loki. He just sucker shot Loki. It's like saying that a Tai Chi master beating a drunken master and a ninja beating a Tai Chi master automatically means the ninja can beat the drunken master. You mean that split second landing where he was still moving? Just because his feet touched the roof of the truck doesn't mean he was stopped. You mean when Cap does that surprise spin move? Cap isn't stronger than Spider-man, but he still could beat him in the comics. Blame it on Cap being a better fighter. Friggin tactics, man! Watch Winter Soldier again and you see that even though he gets shot, Cap powers through it. Was watching it the other day and noticed that Bucky shot him quite a bit and he still fought on after the initial pain. |
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Post by scabab on Mar 19, 2018 6:22:49 GMT
The parallels don't match. What does Loki vs Cap have to do with Cap vs Iron Man? Captain America was too weak to match up to Loki. He was even even told to stay out of the way by Black Widow. Thor is even stronger than Loki. Iron Man physically held his own against Thor, more so than Loki did in the same movie. Yet in Civil War Iron Man was said to be no match for Captain America in hand to hand and was getting rocked around. If Iron Man is supposed to be inferior physically to Captain America then why did Iron Man put up a much better against Thor than Captain America did against Loki? Immediately before that. Spider-man fires webs at his arms and then they have a strength struggle before he does the flip. Why would Spider-man struggle? His physical strength is such that Winter Soldier's metal arm had no effect on him in the slightest yet Captain America who has weaker arms was able to make Spider-man exert more strength. |
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Post by RedDeadFallout on Mar 19, 2018 8:17:48 GMT
The parallels don't match. What does Loki vs Cap have to do with Cap vs Iron Man? Captain America was too weak to match up to Loki. He was even even told to stay out of the way by Black Widow. Thor is even stronger than Loki. Iron Man physically held his own against Thor, more so than Loki did in the same movie. Yet in Civil War Iron Man was said to be no match for Captain America in hand to hand and was getting rocked around. If Iron Man is supposed to be inferior physically to Captain America then why did Iron Man put up a much better against Thor than Captain America did against Loki? Immediately before that. Spider-man fires webs at his arms and then they have a strength struggle before he does the flip. Why would Spider-man struggle? His physical strength is such that Winter Soldier's metal arm had no effect on him in the slightest yet Captain America who has weaker arms was able to make Spider-man exert more strength. Because it's a comic book movie, that's why. |
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Post by Vassaggo on Mar 19, 2018 8:47:24 GMT
The parallels don't match. What does Loki vs Cap have to do with Cap vs Iron Man? Captain America was too weak to match up to Loki. He was even even told to stay out of the way by Black Widow. Thor is even stronger than Loki. Iron Man physically held his own against Thor, more so than Loki did in the same movie. Yet in Civil War Iron Man was said to be no match for Captain America in hand to hand and was getting rocked around. If Iron Man is supposed to be inferior physically to Captain America then why did Iron Man put up a much better against Thor than Captain America did against Loki? Immediately before that. Spider-man fires webs at his arms and then they have a strength struggle before he does the flip. Why would Spider-man struggle? His physical strength is such that Winter Soldier's metal arm had no effect on him in the slightest yet Captain America who has weaker arms was able to make Spider-man exert more strength. That strength test between them is retarded anyways. One of my group has a double BS in Bio-Chem and Physics. Richard is our go to guy for plausibility. We had this conversation after the movie. Neither can dig into the ground as they are on concrete. Neither leans against the force of the pull, ie away from each other. So neither bring the strength of there legs into the match up. The strength of their legs leaning away and digging into the ground (even with it being concrete) would increase friction but that doesn't happen. The only thing they are battling are upper body strength, arms and torso vs each other weight and friction to the ground. Their torso's are keeping them at 90 degree angle to the ground and their arms are fighting against that. The stupid thing here is they way they do it the only real thing they are straining against is friction applied to their feet and their weight. Again they aren't really using their legs to dig in. Either one are strong enough to lift each other of the ground easily. Either one could overcome the friction their weight put on their feet. This is the problem with superhero physics. Now if both leaned against and made it a tug of war, Spidey wins no problem. One thing here is neither are going all out. Neither wants to hurt the other just to subdue each other nicely. Probably why Spidey put so much more pressure on Bucky's arm is it was a metal arm. In this given situation with them not going all out and not using what they should in a tug of war ie legs and digging in, who ever pulls first to get the others weight off the ground wins. I mean either could've done a wiping motion to the webbing and lifted each other off the ground. Strength does nothing to increase each other's weight. Going of comic strength it should be 10-15tons Spidey 800lbs Cap. Ultimate Cap can lift 2-5 tons which MCU cap is more like. So using the webbing to lift the other off the ground would be nothing for either. That's why trying to apply real world physics to Superheroes is so hard. Side note, anybody with increased strength would have to have increased durability equal to that strength. If Spidey can throw a 10 ton pressured punch his body would have to be able to take 10 tons of pressure to. If not Newtons 3rd law would turn spidey's arm to paste. I have a problem with Jessica Jones vs Luke Cage. Luke Cage's durability gives him strength that's ok His durability is higher than his strength. Jessica's Strength is a lot higher than Luke's but her durability is a lot lower. This causes a problem. If her Durability isn't equal to her strength again Newton's 3rd Law comes into play. So tech her durability should be at the same level as her strength so she should be more durable than Luke Not even with punching. If her strength allows her to pick up 5 tons then her body better be durable enough to take 5 tons of pressure or her back and legs would snap under the pressure. Again Superhero Physics sucks. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 19, 2018 8:56:27 GMT
The parallels don't match. What does Loki vs Cap have to do with Cap vs Iron Man? Captain America was too weak to match up to Loki. He was even even told to stay out of the way by Black Widow. Thor is even stronger than Loki. Iron Man physically held his own against Thor, more so than Loki did in the same movie. Yet in Civil War Iron Man was said to be no match for Captain America in hand to hand and was getting rocked around. If Iron Man is supposed to be inferior physically to Captain America then why did Iron Man put up a much better against Thor than Captain America did against Loki? Immediately before that. Spider-man fires webs at his arms and then they have a strength struggle before he does the flip. Why would Spider-man struggle? His physical strength is such that Winter Soldier's metal arm had no effect on him in the slightest yet Captain America who has weaker arms was able to make Spider-man exert more strength. Cap has superior hand-to-hand tactics. That's why Tony had to run a program to match him. And that's when he got the better of Steve. You are going on strength alone and not that Steve is a tactical fighter. Loki used his staff and speed that gave him a superior reach. You mean when Spider-man held his arms. Again thinking above trying to only use his arms to pull Spider-man, he had to do something to get out of it. Did Spider-man exert more strength or was he holding him? He only webbed his hands back above his shoulders. He didn't try to pull him or knock him down to web him to the ground. |
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 19, 2018 10:21:27 GMT
Inconsistent strength is extremely common in all forms of comic book/superhero stories. It happens all the time in the comics, the cartoons, the tv series', and the movies. The strength is always whatever fits the story/script at that moment. A few tiers up and down, yes. Cap beating Spiderman? Sure. Cap stopping a push from someone like Thanos? Far too big an inconsistency. To be fair we really don't know the full context of the scene in question. When I first watched the trailer, I thought it was cap blocking Thanos's punch. After watching the trailer a few times I noticed that it wasn't a punch he was blocking but he was trying to stop Thanos from grabbing something. And he's definitely putting all his strength into it, as seen by the look of his face. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 19, 2018 10:52:44 GMT
Also, Cap has the Vibranium Gauntlets on. Those will absorb the kinetic energy of Thanos' movements anyways.
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