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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2018 18:14:54 GMT
They'sa turned it into a Disney warrior princess story with no real mythos or lore. It might'n be superficially fun to watch but it's bad storytelling and bad SW. So merely being about a woman was enough to ruin it? Come on. It has nothing to do with being about a woman. Wonder Woman is a good female character in da recently released film. Black Widow is a good female character. Princess Leia is a good female character of SW. So is Ahsoka of CWAS and SW Rebels. It's all bout da criteria used to make da character.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 31, 2018 18:22:38 GMT
It's no more fanfic than the Prequels were or anything in the OT. Or the EU books. Dats simply not true. Dats yousen biased opinion cuz yousa hates da prequels. But da prequels have far more genuine ties to da actual lore and mythos. So does half da Legends EU. Da same can be said for how much more plot holes da sequel trilogy has over any other SW. That's just because the PT have more characters from the OT like Obi-Wan and Anakin and stuff. The ST is supposed to be about the new characters taking over, and before you say "Then do it properly!" that was always going to be impossible. One guy says no one will come...and it's also said they're spread out over the Galaxy. Easy to infer that it's because they're too far away to bother coming.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 31, 2018 18:22:57 GMT
The decanonization of everything aside from the OT being the implication. Over a thousand agreed and almost 50000 viewed it. He's just saying what they want to but wouldn't. OT Fans are stuck in the Past and need to be pulled to the future whether they like it or not. There is no genuine future. Dats da problem. It's fanfic dat ignores canon, and poorly constructed storytelling. What canon was ignored, tell me?
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 31, 2018 18:24:23 GMT
So merely being about a woman was enough to ruin it? Come on. It has nothing to do with being about a woman. Wonder Woman is a good female character in da recently released film. Black Widow is a good female character. Princess Leia is a good female character of SW. So is Ahsoka of CWAS and SW Rebels. It's all bout da criteria used to make da character. Wonder Woman was about a woman from the start, Black Widow hasn't been the star of her own film (yet) and Leia was always secondary to Luke and Han. Same with Ahsoka. With Rey, the big problem is her being the heroine while Luke and Han and Leia are all still around. OT Fans can't accept her (or any of the new characters) taking over for the Old Guard because they want the Old Guard to be the ONLY heroes around.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Mar 31, 2018 18:44:08 GMT
Lol how SLOPPY you are. An obscure guy ranting for click bait without any viewer comments? The second one is about the decanonization of the old EU and has nothing to do with it. The decanonization of everything aside from the OT being the implication. No. No such implication whatsoever. They discarded the old EU. The Lucas films including the Clone Wars Film & Show remained canon. This is old news.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2018 19:10:02 GMT
It has nothing to do with being about a woman. Wonder Woman is a good female character in da recently released film. Black Widow is a good female character. Princess Leia is a good female character of SW. So is Ahsoka of CWAS and SW Rebels. It's all bout da criteria used to make da character. Wonder Woman was about a woman from the start, Black Widow hasn't been the star of her own film (yet) and Leia was always secondary to Luke and Han. Same with Ahsoka. With Rey, the big problem is her being the heroine while Luke and Han and Leia are all still around. OT Fans can't accept her (or any of the new characters) taking over for the Old Guard because they want the Old Guard to be the ONLY heroes around. No-sa! It has nothing to do with Rey being da main character. Dats a cop out argument. She is written like a typical Disney warrior princess which doesn't harmonize with SW. Da typical Disney warrior princess is: - Liked by everyone, even sometimes for no apparent or logical reason. Also there is usually no character development in her being liked. It's instantaneous. Example: It took time for Han to like Luke as a friend. It also took time for Leia to respect Luke. Chewbacca instantly liked Rey. And after initially wanting to throw Rey off da ship, Han instantly liked her also. - Enemies always respect and admire da Disney warrior princess. Watch other Disney movies you will see what Tarpals is talkin bout. Example: Luke was not respected by any of his enemies. Dat was still sometimes true even after gettin good with lightsaber. Luke was not respected or impressive to Yoda or Ben Kenobi, especially Yoda. In contrast Rey instantly impressed Luke Skywalker, her only mentor. - Disney warrior princesses are chosen by Disney magic. They'sa are empowered and overpowered for any obstacle or any enemy dat thems will face. They never need training or development. All they'sa have to do is believe. (Watch other Disney warrior princess movies. Yousen will see what da Captain is talkin bout). Example: Despite Luke Skywalker and Anakin Skywalker's natural talent in da Force, their development and growth is apparent onscreen. They'sa needs for some mentoring and training is well documented. Rey is instantly chosen by a lightsaber. Rey instantly gets da ability from da Force to mind trick, mind probe far better than Kylo who trained in it. And Rey instantly gets da ability to be proficient with a lightsaber after a few seconds of meditation. She needs no training from Luke after she finds him. Luke begrudgingly gives her one meditation lesson dat mostly seemed unnecessary. Then Rey spent da rest of da time training herself. Rey is so good a pilot after only a few missions flying da Millennium Falcon dat she destroyed 3 TIE fighters with 1 shot in TLJ. Luke never did anything like dat and he is strong in da Force and also spent most his youth training to be a pilot and flying real ships. Rey's connection to da Force is more like Disney magic embodied in one of thems warrior princesses. It's not harmonious with previous Force lore. But Disney wrote Rey dat way ciz their transplanting thems audience who pay a billion dollars a flick to see da latest Disney warrior princess do da same things every movie. Rey might be a good Disney warrior princess in da confines of Disney universes, but she is not a good SW character in confines of SW lore. She is just a typical Disney warrior princess transplanted into SW. If she had been written like a Jedi version of Leia but made the top star, or written like Ahsoka and made da primary protagonist, she would've been fine. But she wasn't. Her was purposely written like a Disney warrior princess cuz Disney didn't have da guts to make a genuinely strong female #1 protagonist within da SW universe. They'sa inserted a Disney princess in a lazy effort to ensure all of their longstanding Disney princess fans would see da movies.
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Post by thenewnexus on Mar 31, 2018 19:12:49 GMT
It has nothing to do with being about a woman. Wonder Woman is a good female character in da recently released film. Black Widow is a good female character. Princess Leia is a good female character of SW. So is Ahsoka of CWAS and SW Rebels. It's all bout da criteria used to make da character. Wonder Woman was about a woman from the start, Black Widow hasn't been the star of her own film (yet) and Leia was always secondary to Luke and Han. Same with Ahsoka. With Rey, the big problem is her being the heroine while Luke and Han and Leia are all still around. OT Fans can't accept her (or any of the new characters) taking over for the Old Guard because they want the Old Guard to be the ONLY heroes around. I would totally be fine with zero connection to the previous,with Star Wars there is a big universe out there beyond the first 6 movies,Abrams and Disney are the ones that decided to rehash ep 4 no risk at all. Why the new characters are not liked Finn - he gets beat up and humiliated throughout the movies he only gets one good moment in last jedi and thats short lived. The guy playing Finn looks like he got treated better in Pacific Rim 2. Lando and Made Windu were at least badass Rey - she has no struggles and beats the big bad when she barley knows about the force. How she gets the force is the same as cheat codes Rose - Shes completely useless and and a total fuck up and comes across as a crazy fangirl.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2018 19:17:14 GMT
Dats simply not true. Dats yousen biased opinion cuz yousa hates da prequels. But da prequels have far more genuine ties to da actual lore and mythos. So does half da Legends EU. Da same can be said for how much more plot holes da sequel trilogy has over any other SW. That's just because the PT have more characters from the OT like Obi-Wan and Anakin and stuff. The ST is supposed to be about the new characters taking over, and before you say "Then do it properly!" that was always going to be impossible. One guy says no one will come...and it's also said they're spread out over the Galaxy. Easy to infer that it's because they're too far away to bother coming. If'n they'sa are spread out over da galaxy too far away to help then why call them in da first place? They have star charts and maps, navicomputers. Thems would already know how far away any allies are. So why call them if dat was true?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2018 19:48:31 GMT
It has nothing to do with being about a woman. Wonder Woman is a good female character in da recently released film. Black Widow is a good female character. Princess Leia is a good female character of SW. So is Ahsoka of CWAS and SW Rebels. It's all bout da criteria used to make da character. Wonder Woman was about a woman from the start, Black Widow hasn't been the star of her own film (yet) and Leia was always secondary to Luke and Han. Same with Ahsoka. With Rey, the big problem is her being the heroine while Luke and Han and Leia are all still around. OT Fans can't accept her (or any of the new characters) taking over for the Old Guard because they want the Old Guard to be the ONLY heroes around. Nope. I liked Rey. Hell, I liked almost all the new characters. It's what this movie did with those characters - new and old - that I didn't like. And I think it's disingenuous say that there's any SW fan out there who was hoping Luke and Leia would forever be the heroes. When TFA came out, we all knew the Disney machine was going to churn out an annual movie for a long time to come, so we all knew the future of the saga story would be carried on in a new generation. The new generation is not the problem. The problem is that revelations in TLJ destroyed all decent potential for those character's futures and simultaneously gave retarded endings to the old characters. Even Leia - whose character and backstory since ROTJ was the singular exception to the massive fuck-over the rest got - just had to have that Mary Poppins moment. The real shame in this is that SW can get the very best and brightest storytellers in the world to beg for the opportunity to take charge of this galaxy, and instead it was handed to dickwads like Johnson, Abrams, and Kennedy, who, thus far, have managed to fuck up the story about as much as is humanly possible. Halloween 3 can more honestly be called a "sequel" than TLJ.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 31, 2018 21:35:35 GMT
The decanonization of everything aside from the OT being the implication. No. No such implication whatsoever. They discarded the old EU. The Lucas films including the Clone Wars Film & Show remained canon. This is old news. When they first said they were decanonizing stuff like the EU, there was hope this meant the Prequels were going too. Then it got squashed when they said they were keeping the prequels.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 31, 2018 21:42:46 GMT
Wonder Woman was about a woman from the start, Black Widow hasn't been the star of her own film (yet) and Leia was always secondary to Luke and Han. Same with Ahsoka. With Rey, the big problem is her being the heroine while Luke and Han and Leia are all still around. OT Fans can't accept her (or any of the new characters) taking over for the Old Guard because they want the Old Guard to be the ONLY heroes around. No-sa! It has nothing to do with Rey being da main character. Dats a cop out argument. She is written like a typical Disney warrior princess which doesn't harmonize with SW. Oh, but a typical Warrior Prince would be fine? They both liked him just fine by the end of ANH. Kenobi was fine with Luke the whole OT. So was Luke and Anakin. Most of their training was off-screen anyways. Torn into for being a knock-off of Leia and/or Ahsoka. Rey's a no-win scenario, she gets ripped into no matter what.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 31, 2018 21:44:51 GMT
Wonder Woman was about a woman from the start, Black Widow hasn't been the star of her own film (yet) and Leia was always secondary to Luke and Han. Same with Ahsoka. With Rey, the big problem is her being the heroine while Luke and Han and Leia are all still around. OT Fans can't accept her (or any of the new characters) taking over for the Old Guard because they want the Old Guard to be the ONLY heroes around. I would totally be fine with zero connection to the previous,with Star Wars there is a big universe out there beyond the first 6 movies,Abrams and Disney are the ones that decided to rehash ep 4 no risk at all. Because after the damage the Prequels did, they needed something familiar for the audiences and couldn't risk doing anything other than that. They also needed to bring back the old cast, but Ford refused to come back unless he died. At which point, Kennedy and the others realized the new characters would forever be tainted for debuting in the "Film that killed Han Solo" so they decided "Well, there's no chance of doing a passing of the torch peacefully so let's just go for broke."
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 31, 2018 21:45:12 GMT
That's just because the PT have more characters from the OT like Obi-Wan and Anakin and stuff. The ST is supposed to be about the new characters taking over, and before you say "Then do it properly!" that was always going to be impossible. One guy says no one will come...and it's also said they're spread out over the Galaxy. Easy to infer that it's because they're too far away to bother coming. If'n they'sa are spread out over da galaxy too far away to help then why call them in da first place? They have star charts and maps, navicomputers. Thems would already know how far away any allies are. So why call them if dat was true? Desperation.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 31, 2018 21:47:22 GMT
Wonder Woman was about a woman from the start, Black Widow hasn't been the star of her own film (yet) and Leia was always secondary to Luke and Han. Same with Ahsoka. With Rey, the big problem is her being the heroine while Luke and Han and Leia are all still around. OT Fans can't accept her (or any of the new characters) taking over for the Old Guard because they want the Old Guard to be the ONLY heroes around. Nope. I liked Rey. Hell, I liked almost all the new characters. It's what this movie did with those characters - new and old - that I didn't like. And I think it's disingenuous say that there's any SW fan out there who was hoping Luke and Leia would forever be the heroes. I don't. And I KNOW my hateful fandoms. And the simple IDEA that there'd BE a new Generation at all offended a lot of people. How? Because Rey wasn't Luke's daughter and Finn wasn't Lando's long-lost son?
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Mar 31, 2018 22:17:18 GMT
Wonder Woman was about a woman from the start, Black Widow hasn't been the star of her own film (yet) and Leia was always secondary to Luke and Han. Same with Ahsoka. With Rey, the big problem is her being the heroine while Luke and Han and Leia are all still around. OT Fans can't accept her (or any of the new characters) taking over for the Old Guard because they want the Old Guard to be the ONLY heroes around. Nope. I liked Rey. Hell, I liked almost all the new characters. It's what this movie did with those characters - new and old - that I didn't like. And I think it's disingenuous say that there's any SW fan out there who was hoping Luke and Leia would forever be the heroes. When TFA came out, we all knew the Disney machine was going to churn out an annual movie for a long time to come, so we all knew the future of the saga story would be carried on in a new generation. The new generation is not the problem. The problem is that revelations in TLJ destroyed all decent potential for those character's futures and simultaneously gave retarded endings to the old characters. Even Leia - whose character and backstory since ROTJ was the singular exception to the massive fuck-over the rest got - just had to have that Mary Poppins moment. The real shame in this is that SW can get the very best and brightest storytellers in the world to beg for the opportunity to take charge of this galaxy, and instead it was handed to dickwads like Johnson, Abrams, and Kennedy, who, thus far, have managed to fuck up the story about as much as is humanly possible. Halloween 3 can more honestly be called a "sequel" than TLJ. Yep. That's the crux of the problem. I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Mar 31, 2018 22:24:05 GMT
Nope. I liked Rey. Hell, I liked almost all the new characters. It's what this movie did with those characters - new and old - that I didn't like. And I think it's disingenuous say that there's any SW fan out there who was hoping Luke and Leia would forever be the heroes. I don't. And I KNOW my hateful fandoms. A bogus claim that is only your opinion. Not true. A false claim made by you in a vain attempt to win the argument. Because they're poorly written for the most part.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 31, 2018 22:40:46 GMT
I don't. And I KNOW my hateful fandoms. A bogus claim that is only your opinion. No, it happened to Star Trek as well. You probably don't know how vehemently the TOS fans were to the mere idea of TNG and new characters. Nope, another thing hurled at how badly the OT characters were treated in these movies is that if they'd been done properly they'd have stopped the First Order on their own and there'd be no need for new characters at all. How? Because Rey doesn't lose every fight she's in so Luke can still be the awesome Jedi Knight and Finn isn't some badass Stormtrooper tougher than any Resistance member?
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 1, 2018 6:22:05 GMT
A bogus claim that is only your opinion. No, it happened to Star Trek as well. You probably don't know how vehemently the TOS fans were to the mere idea of TNG and new characters. I've heard. But you can't superimpose the dynamics of one fanbase onto to another and claim that's what's going on and the same reasons are behind it. I operate on evidence and facts. Never heard that before. And never seen that on this SW forum. And I frequent this forum enough not to miss anything. You're right. Rey doesn't lose every fight. In fact she doesn't lose any fight. All with absolutely no training. You talk about Rey - fighting for her to always have the spotlight. And there's nothing wrong with that, per se. But if you have ruin the characterization of another character to accomplish it, that's not good writing. Finn - (never mind if he's a bada** or not) is it realistic that a Stormtrooper who gets elite training and programming from birth is a bumbling idiot with a cowardly streak most of the time. Stop looking at it though biased fanboy eyes. A sign of good writing is: does it make sense in the confines of the universe? Does it make sense in the context of the character or characterization?... So did Finn's characterization make sense?
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 1, 2018 12:41:19 GMT
No, it happened to Star Trek as well. You probably don't know how vehemently the TOS fans were to the mere idea of TNG and new characters. I've heard. But you can't superimpose the dynamics of one fanbase onto to another and claim that's what's going on and the same reasons are behind it. But in this case, it's the exact same situation. This is based on other forums discussions I've read. Here: forums.spacebattles.com/threads/what-do-you-hate-the-most-about-the-new-star-wars-trilogy.606058/It's like Dune, which Star Wars drew inspiration from. The Fremen of Arrakis/Dune lived on a harsh desert world for all their lives and merely living there gave them the survival training and strength to be great warriors. Same with Rey and Jakku. Seeing how the OT characters being unbeatable heroes would've meant the ST characters couldn't exist at all... It made as much sense as Obi-Wan someone how losing every ounce of his fighting skill between the PT and ANH and barely being able to fight at all.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 1, 2018 14:16:08 GMT
The prequels did get a lot of hate before the Disney buyout, that's true. Although I do wonder how much of it was popularized by pop culture.
That being said what Disney doing with Star Wars isn't new or even ground breaking honestly. They're just redoing the original trilogy with a new coat of paint. Honestly if Disney would have just been honest about wanting to remake the original trilogy they wouldn't have been in this mess to begin with.
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