|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 2, 2018 15:02:08 GMT
The point you're missing, is that in the OT, the answers to those questions aren't necessary to understand what happens in each story. Sure, you could wonder, but the exposition in the film establishes 'rules', and that the Emperor rules the Empire and that he started it and etc- it's all just fact and secondary to the story that's being told. So, for example, if they'd set the story 100 years after the OT the audience would've been more willing to accept this stuff happened in the 100 year gap without deeper explanation? From what we've been told, he always just felt angry and different and couldn't relate to his parents or his Uncle. Snoke found him and he COULD relate to him, and probably figured that Anakin's redemption was a lie told him and he was really in the right. The story isn't over yet, so I'm gong to wait til Episode 9. Same way Palpatine hid himself in plain sight, his Dark Side powers. This is what I mean when I say that OT fans are upset at the mere existence of the ST. They say that the OT characters should've been able to handle the First Order on their own and new characters weren't needed. So to stay true to the OT, there could never BE new characters because the OT characters should've been able to handle everything on their own. So it's the mere existence of the ST and any new crisis/threat that they find offensive.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 2, 2018 15:05:01 GMT
Anytime anyone calls Rey a Mary Sue, it's sexism. No one minded Luke after all. The character is a Mary Sue and it is not sexist to say so. Right right right, she needs to be schooled by everyone and lose every fight and end up saved by Luke just to reassure OT fans that he's still Jedi #1.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 2, 2018 15:13:21 GMT
But there was more to the Republic than the Jedi, what about all the soldiers the Republic itself would've had? Who said anything about Republic soldiers in the OT? No one. We can infer that the Republic had it's own Armies and Ships and stuff, because Leia mentions the Clone Wars. How does it not matter, when comparing to the First Order? 30 years is plenty of time for new forces to build up somewhere. So all we know is that there was some guy who deemed himself the Emperor, got one Jedi to help him kill all the others (nearly)...of course where he came from or where he got all his OTHER followers is a mystery. Okay, from what we can see on screen since they won't spoonfed us the FO seems to be made up of Empire Remnants and others who basically idolized the Empire and what it stood for (the younger generations, possibly survivors of families who prospered under Imperial Rule seeing how young guys like Hux are) and Snoke took advantage of this lingering Imperial Remnant to form his own army to conquer the Galaxy. No, they just had Vader say stuff like "The Dark Side's power is so awesome!" and Obi-Wan say that he was seduced by it...without explaining why being a Dark Side User would make you want to conquer the Galaxy.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 2, 2018 15:14:42 GMT
Anytime anyone calls Rey a Mary Sue, it's sexism. No one minded Luke after all. Okay. Well, by that measure of fairness, anytime anyone accuses someone with a Mary Sue argument as being sexist, that person is a fucking douche. If said character has more reason to be disliked beyond "She's female and strong and isn't a constant damsel", then maybe.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 15:21:45 GMT
Okay, from what we can see on screen since they won't spoonfed us the FO seems to be made up of Empire Remnants and others who basically idolized the Empire and what it stood for (the younger generations, possibly survivors of families who prospered under Imperial Rule seeing how young guys like Hux are) and Snoke took advantage of this lingering Imperial Remnant to form his own army to conquer the Galaxy. Oh, so now your story is that Snoke took advantage of an existing First Order. Got it. I think someone caught up on a little Wookiepedia since he first started this debate. Also, I'd like to know where this and this were depicted in the movie. Ha, you sure you saw these movies? You keep asserting stuff from them that just wasn't there.
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 2, 2018 15:28:44 GMT
Okay, from what we can see on screen since they won't spoonfed us the FO seems to be made up of Empire Remnants and others who basically idolized the Empire and what it stood for (the younger generations, possibly survivors of families who prospered under Imperial Rule seeing how young guys like Hux are) and Snoke took advantage of this lingering Imperial Remnant to form his own army to conquer the Galaxy. Oh, so now your story is that Snoke took advantage of an existing First Order. Got it. I think someone caught up on a little Wookiepedia since he first started this debate. Also, I'd like to know where this and this were depicted in the movie. Ha, you sure you saw these movies? You keep asserting stuff from them that just wasn't there. You realize he's just an internet troll with Asperger's, innit? There's no actual value in attempting anything resembling discourse with the little pig.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 2, 2018 15:30:18 GMT
Okay, from what we can see on screen since they won't spoonfed us the FO seems to be made up of Empire Remnants and others who basically idolized the Empire and what it stood for (the younger generations, possibly survivors of families who prospered under Imperial Rule seeing how young guys like Hux are) and Snoke took advantage of this lingering Imperial Remnant to form his own army to conquer the Galaxy. Oh, so now your story is that Snoke took advantage of an existing First Order. Got it. I think someone caught up on a little Wookiepedia since he first started this debate. Also, I'd like to know where this and this were depicted in the movie. Ha, you sure you saw these movies? You keep asserting stuff from them that just wasn't there. It could be picked up on due to the Imperial Aesthetic used by the FO, the uniforms and the relative youth of everyone there. I'm not sure he took advantage of an existing First Order so much that he took advantage of remaining Imperial popularity among the youth who didn't know better and twisted them into his First Order. I'll wait till Episode 9.
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 2, 2018 15:31:20 GMT
Oh, so now your story is that Snoke took advantage of an existing First Order. Got it. I think someone caught up on a little Wookiepedia since he first started this debate. Also, I'd like to know where this and this were depicted in the movie. Ha, you sure you saw these movies? You keep asserting stuff from them that just wasn't there. It could be picked up on due to the Imperial Aesthetic used by the FO, the uniforms and the relative youth of everyone there. I'm not sure he took advantage of an existing First Order so much that he took advantage of remaining Imperial popularity among the youth who didn't know better and twisted them into his First Order. I'll wait till Episode 9. You're embarrassing yourself with this meltdown.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 15:54:56 GMT
Oh, so now your story is that Snoke took advantage of an existing First Order. Got it. I think someone caught up on a little Wookiepedia since he first started this debate. Also, I'd like to know where this and this were depicted in the movie. Ha, you sure you saw these movies? You keep asserting stuff from them that just wasn't there. It could be picked up on due to the Imperial Aesthetic used by the FO, the uniforms and the relative youth of everyone there. I'm not sure he took advantage of an existing First Order so much that he took advantage of remaining Imperial popularity among the youth who didn't know better and twisted them into his First Order. I'll wait till Episode 9. No need to wait. The origin of the First Order has been completely hashed out in the novels. One of us actually knows what the fuck he's talking about. You must be da udda guy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 15:56:47 GMT
Oh, so now your story is that Snoke took advantage of an existing First Order. Got it. I think someone caught up on a little Wookiepedia since he first started this debate. Also, I'd like to know where this and this were depicted in the movie. Ha, you sure you saw these movies? You keep asserting stuff from them that just wasn't there. You realize he's just an internet troll with Asperger's, innit? There's no actual value in attempting anything resembling discourse with the little pig. I feed trolls sometimes. It's a weakness that I'm not even sure I want to improve.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 15:57:59 GMT
Okay. Well, by that measure of fairness, anytime anyone accuses someone with a Mary Sue argument as being sexist, that person is a fucking douche. If said character has more reason to be disliked beyond "She's female and strong and isn't a constant damsel", then maybe. Leia was female, strong and not a constant damsel in distress, so, you fail again boy.
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 2, 2018 15:58:36 GMT
You realize he's just an internet troll with Asperger's, innit? There's no actual value in attempting anything resembling discourse with the little pig. I feed trolls sometimes. It's a weakness that I'm not even sure I want to improve. It's a guilty pleasure of mine, as well.
|
|
ryboto
Sophomore
@ryboto
Posts: 776
Likes: 724
|
Post by ryboto on Apr 2, 2018 16:09:19 GMT
The point you're missing, is that in the OT, the answers to those questions aren't necessary to understand what happens in each story. Sure, you could wonder, but the exposition in the film establishes 'rules', and that the Emperor rules the Empire and that he started it and etc- it's all just fact and secondary to the story that's being told. So, for example, if they'd set the story 100 years after the OT the audience would've been more willing to accept this stuff happened in the 100 year gap without deeper explanation? From what we've been told, he always just felt angry and different and couldn't relate to his parents or his Uncle. Snoke found him and he COULD relate to him, and probably figured that Anakin's redemption was a lie told him and he was really in the right. The story isn't over yet, so I'm gong to wait til Episode 9. Same way Palpatine hid himself in plain sight, his Dark Side powers. This is what I mean when I say that OT fans are upset at the mere existence of the ST. They say that the OT characters should've been able to handle the First Order on their own and new characters weren't needed. So to stay true to the OT, there could never BE new characters because the OT characters should've been able to handle everything on their own. So it's the mere existence of the ST and any new crisis/threat that they find offensive. -If it's still a sequel, it requires some kind of explanation of motivations, world building...whatever. -"Probably figured"...assumptions not present in the films. -And even with all those powers, turns out he's no one? So, correction, how did the FO get to the point that they could build a planet weapon without detection? Is it explained in the movies? -You missed the point, entirely. I'm not even sure how your response is related to what I said. Did you mean to respond to someone else? I made a comment about world building, and you respond with some nonsense about OT characters?
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 2, 2018 16:09:24 GMT
It could be picked up on due to the Imperial Aesthetic used by the FO, the uniforms and the relative youth of everyone there. I'm not sure he took advantage of an existing First Order so much that he took advantage of remaining Imperial popularity among the youth who didn't know better and twisted them into his First Order. I'll wait till Episode 9. No need to wait. The origin of the First Order has been completely hashed out in the novels. Enlighten me, then.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 2, 2018 16:10:01 GMT
If said character has more reason to be disliked beyond "She's female and strong and isn't a constant damsel", then maybe. Leia was female, strong and not a constant damsel in distress, She also wasn't the lead. If she was, all the same complaints about Rey would be on her.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 16:15:00 GMT
No need to wait. The origin of the First Order has been completely hashed out in the novels. Enlighten me, then. I would if you hadn't acted like a complete troll and adamantly posted about things you were completely ignorant of. Enlighten yourself. Read a book. You clearly need to do a little more reading.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 2, 2018 16:16:27 GMT
So, for example, if they'd set the story 100 years after the OT the audience would've been more willing to accept this stuff happened in the 100 year gap without deeper explanation? From what we've been told, he always just felt angry and different and couldn't relate to his parents or his Uncle. Snoke found him and he COULD relate to him, and probably figured that Anakin's redemption was a lie told him and he was really in the right. The story isn't over yet, so I'm gong to wait til Episode 9. Same way Palpatine hid himself in plain sight, his Dark Side powers. This is what I mean when I say that OT fans are upset at the mere existence of the ST. They say that the OT characters should've been able to handle the First Order on their own and new characters weren't needed. So to stay true to the OT, there could never BE new characters because the OT characters should've been able to handle everything on their own. So it's the mere existence of the ST and any new crisis/threat that they find offensive. -If it's still a sequel, it requires some kind of explanation of motivations, world building...whatever. -"Probably figured"...assumptions not present in the films. -And even with all those powers, turns out he's no one? So, correction, how did the FO get to the point that they could build a planet weapon without detection? Is it explained in the movies? -You missed the point, entirely. I'm not even sure how your response is related to what I said. Did you mean to respond to someone else? I made a comment about world building, and you respond with some nonsense about OT characters? 100 years later would explain how the First Order came about and built up forces easily enough, a new Dark Side User coming to power too because Luke was long gone. In fact, if the OT cast were all dead of old age before the ST came out then there'd be less hatred directed at the ST for introducing new characters because there'd be no way to truly expect the OT characters to still be up and about. 30 years is a long time to build something. You say that there's no world-building in the ST and disrespect of the past OT. If the OT characters were as tough and more powerful than they were in the OT then there'd be no ST to begin with because the idea that there's a new crisis totally contradicts the end of the OT which basically says "Yeah, they won forever and there won't be any new threats. The end."
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 2, 2018 16:17:17 GMT
I would if you hadn't acted like a complete troll and adamantly posted about things you were completely ignorant of. Enlighten yourself. Read a book. You clearly need to do a little more reading. You read that thread link first. It at least ties into the Anti-ST sentiment.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 16:21:56 GMT
I would if you hadn't acted like a complete troll and adamantly posted about things you were completely ignorant of. Enlighten yourself. Read a book. You clearly need to do a little more reading. You read that thread link first. It at least ties into the Anti-ST sentiment. Fuck yourself and your stupid link that had nothing to do with the conversation.
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 2, 2018 17:24:37 GMT
You read that thread link first. It at least ties into the Anti-ST sentiment. Fuck yourself and your stupid link that had nothing to do with the conversation. This is all textbook for him.
|
|