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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 3, 2018 17:04:21 GMT
You complain the ST is all fanfic, I can assure you that there's probably a ton of fanfics written out there wherein the ST now stars the OT cast the whole way through and the ST characters exist solely to be killed off or belittled by the OT cast at every turn.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Apr 3, 2018 17:36:26 GMT
You complain the ST is all fanfic, I can assure you that there's probably a ton of fanfics written out there wherein the ST now stars the OT cast the whole way through and the ST characters exist solely to be killed off or belittled by the OT cast at every turn. cool. Sounds awful. Maybe eventually you'll make a point.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 3, 2018 17:46:20 GMT
You complain the ST is all fanfic, I can assure you that there's probably a ton of fanfics written out there wherein the ST now stars the OT cast the whole way through and the ST characters exist solely to be killed off or belittled by the OT cast at every turn. I've looked at some ST fanfic from time to time. And most of it centers around the new characters. And it's better than the crap we got. So again, you're making claims that simply aren't real. They're not based in reality. Stop sitting at that PC screen pretending you have mind probe power by making up lies... while being dressed up in a Rey costume! Step into reality.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 3, 2018 22:11:41 GMT
You complain the ST is all fanfic, I can assure you that there's probably a ton of fanfics written out there wherein the ST now stars the OT cast the whole way through and the ST characters exist solely to be killed off or belittled by the OT cast at every turn. I've looked at some ST fanfic from time to time. And most of it centers around the new characters. And it's better than the crap we got. Probably by keeping the OT characters alive and giving them more screentime/pagetime.
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shinnickneth
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@shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Apr 3, 2018 22:33:59 GMT
When Johnson went to Abrams for answers on Rey's parents identity, Abrams had nothing. When Rian Johnson went to Abrams about the significance of the lightsaber, Abrams had nothing. When Rian went to Abrams about Snoke's backstory... nothing. When he looked for answers about why Rey was this "girl" that that had some secret significance or connection that everyone knew about... nothing! I have to disagree. It sounds like Johnson is just trying to blame everything on Abrams. Abrams didn't make him write the horrible storyline for Mark Hamill, fizzle out the antagonists, throw out all the mythology of the prior 8 movies, etc. It's all on Rian. It was his responsibility to make a story that compliments the other movies (especially Episode 7). He did not. He contradicted pretty much everything in Episode 7. When you're a writer continuing the story from someone else's work, it's your job to support what has already been written. I was surprised for a split-second since I know Rian worked on Breaking Bad - it seemed like he would know how to collaborate with others writing-wise. However, then I remembered that Johnson didn't actually write any episodes for Breaking Bad (Rian only directed). Rian Johnson is inexperienced at writing with others. I don't think Disney should have let him write on that grounds alone. You can't have amateurs trying to learn on the job.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 3, 2018 23:38:20 GMT
When Johnson went to Abrams for answers on Rey's parents identity, Abrams had nothing. When Rian Johnson went to Abrams about the significance of the lightsaber, Abrams had nothing. When Rian went to Abrams about Snoke's backstory... nothing. When he looked for answers about why Rey was this "girl" that that had some secret significance or connection that everyone knew about... nothing! I have to disagree. It sounds like Johnson is just trying to blame everything on Abrams. Abrams didn't make him write the horrible storyline for Mark Hamill, fizzle out the antagonists, throw out all the mythology of the prior 8 movies, etc. It's all on Rian. It was his responsibility to make a story that compliments the other movies (especially Episode 7). He did not. He contradicted pretty much everything in Episode 7. When you're a writer continuing the story from someone else's work, it's your job to support what has already been written. I was surprised for a split-second since I know Rian worked on Breaking Bad - it seemed like he would know how to collaborate with others writing-wise. However, then I remembered that Johnson didn't actually write any episodes for Breaking Bad (Rian only directed). Rian Johnson is inexperienced at writing with others. I don't think Disney should have let him write on that grounds alone. You can't have amateurs trying to learn on the job. You make good points. Still, I have to somewhat disagree. Here's why? If you research the history of George Lucas - how wrote and made the OT from beginning to end... if you look at all of the collaborations he had to pull it off... you will NEVER hear one person he collaborated with say George Lucas gave them nothing to work with. He always provided at least some story or character points to work off of... some kind of concept to where he thought the story or characters were heading. Even when he did the prequels and his collaboration was mostly limited to production you could say the same thing about how Lucas did things. Watch any documentary or featurette on any movie. You will see that doing what Abrams did is just not normal. A storyteller who makes a story always has some kind of vision in mind. Especially if it is part of a series or sequels, there's some kind of concept as to where the story and characters are headed. The only time that you will find this is not the case is when there is a hiatus. In those cases usually (but not always) you have to start cold. Under those circumstances the preceding storyteller has either concluded their vision, or circumstances prevented from continuing and it's been so long that they've lost a vision for it. In those cases the next storyteller may try to confer with the previous one to try and get more insight. Or they may abandon any previous trends of previous work. (Notice that point just mentioned). They will start cold and go with their own personal perception and direction. But under those circumstances you are dealing with a hiatus and the new storyteller has had an extended period of time to figure out their own vision and "start over" (even though their making a sequel). You don't just give someone making a sequel nothing when they have 6 months or less to work with!(By contrast even Abrams had almost a year to come up with something based on what Michael Arndt gave him on his TFA script. And some people considered that pressured circumstances).
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 4, 2018 2:27:46 GMT
I've looked at some ST fanfic from time to time. And most of it centers around the new characters. And it's better than the crap we got. Probably by keeping the OT characters alive and giving them more screentime/pagetime. No it wasn't. I saw it. You didn't. I'm factually reporting. You're a sleezy gossip columnist.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 4, 2018 3:07:17 GMT
Probably by keeping the OT characters alive and giving them more screentime/pagetime. No it wasn't. I saw it. You didn't. I'm factually reporting. You're a sleezy gossip columnist. Well, I can't imagine any stories featuring both the OT and ST characters co-existing treats the ST characters very well so I'm guessing the OT characters don't feature much then.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 4, 2018 3:20:56 GMT
No it wasn't. I saw it. You didn't. I'm factually reporting. You're a sleezy gossip columnist. Well, I can't imagine any stories featuring both the OT and ST characters co-existing treats the ST characters very well so I'm guessing the OT characters don't feature much then. And that's your problem. You can't imagine it. Which is why you're no better than the fake accusations you post against OT fans.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 4, 2018 3:30:09 GMT
Well, I can't imagine any stories featuring both the OT and ST characters co-existing treats the ST characters very well so I'm guessing the OT characters don't feature much then. And that's your problem. You can't imagine it. Blame the simple hatred the ST characters get because they existed. Not my fault folks can't stand that the new movies were going to be about their own characters.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 4, 2018 3:53:04 GMT
And that's your problem. You can't imagine it. Blame the simple hatred the ST characters get because they existed. Not my fault folks can't stand that the new movies were going to be about their own characters. They're not hated because they exist. That's your false narrative that you eat, sleep, and breathe on. You might be passionately tied to it. But it's still a clearly evident lie.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 4, 2018 11:58:08 GMT
Blame the simple hatred the ST characters get because they existed. Not my fault folks can't stand that the new movies were going to be about their own characters. They're not hated because they exist. They are, they very much are. Their very existence means the OT characters are no longer the epic heroes they were in the OT, and that is something OT fans just cannot forgive. If they'd been sidekick characters, they'd still get hatred because OT fans would suspect they were meant to eventually replace the OT characters no matter how far down the line it would be (or if it would happen at all). If they'd set the ST like 100 years later with the OT characters long dead, the ST characters would STILL get hate because OT fans would be pissed the OT characters died off-screen. You can't win, you just can't win. The ONLY way OT fans MIGHT, just MIGHT have been able to appreciate them just a LITTLE, would be if they were killed off ASAP all the while showing nothing but inferiority to the OT characters they were interacting with and never once doing anything that could show them as stronger or more capable than the OT characters.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Apr 4, 2018 12:32:08 GMT
They're not hated because they exist. They are, they very much are. Their very existence means the OT characters are no longer the epic heroes they were in the OT, and that is something OT fans just cannot forgive. If they'd been sidekick characters, they'd still get hatred because OT fans would suspect they were meant to eventually replace the OT characters no matter how far down the line it would be (or if it would happen at all). If they'd set the ST like 100 years later with the OT characters long dead, the ST characters would STILL get hate because OT fans would be pissed the OT characters died off-screen. You can't win, you just can't win. The ONLY way OT fans MIGHT, just MIGHT have been able to appreciate them just a LITTLE, would be if they were killed off ASAP all the while showing nothing but inferiority to the OT characters they were interacting with and never once doing anything that could show them as stronger or more capable than the OT characters. If this was the only problem with the ST- that new characters steal the limelight(not that they exist at all) - then maybe i'd entertain your argument. But it's just one of MANY problems with this 'trilogy'.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 4, 2018 12:36:27 GMT
They are, they very much are. Their very existence means the OT characters are no longer the epic heroes they were in the OT, and that is something OT fans just cannot forgive. If they'd been sidekick characters, they'd still get hatred because OT fans would suspect they were meant to eventually replace the OT characters no matter how far down the line it would be (or if it would happen at all). If they'd set the ST like 100 years later with the OT characters long dead, the ST characters would STILL get hate because OT fans would be pissed the OT characters died off-screen. You can't win, you just can't win. The ONLY way OT fans MIGHT, just MIGHT have been able to appreciate them just a LITTLE, would be if they were killed off ASAP all the while showing nothing but inferiority to the OT characters they were interacting with and never once doing anything that could show them as stronger or more capable than the OT characters. If this was the only problem with the ST- that new characters steal the limelight(not that they exist at all) - then maybe i'd entertain your argument. But it's just one of MANY problems with this 'trilogy'. Yes yes yes, Han isn't some Fancy Republic Admiral, Leia isn't some fancy Chancellor and Luke isn't some all-powerful Jedi Grandmaster. And the New Republic isn't the uncontested power in the Galaxy, and there shouldn't be a Neo-Empire at all. Got it.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 4, 2018 13:00:18 GMT
They're not hated because they exist. They are, they very much are. Their very existence means the OT characters are no longer the epic heroes they were in the OT, and that is something OT fans just cannot forgive. If they'd been sidekick characters, they'd still get hatred because OT fans would suspect they were meant to eventually replace the OT characters no matter how far down the line it would be (or if it would happen at all). If they'd set the ST like 100 years later with the OT characters long dead, the ST characters would STILL get hate because OT fans would be pissed the OT characters died off-screen. You can't win, you just can't win. The ONLY way OT fans MIGHT, just MIGHT have been able to appreciate them just a LITTLE, would be if they were killed off ASAP all the while showing nothing but inferiority to the OT characters they were interacting with and never once doing anything that could show them as stronger or more capable than the OT characters.
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ryboto
Sophomore
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Post by ryboto on Apr 4, 2018 13:11:07 GMT
If this was the only problem with the ST- that new characters steal the limelight(not that they exist at all) - then maybe i'd entertain your argument. But it's just one of MANY problems with this 'trilogy'. Yes yes yes, Han isn't some Fancy Republic Admiral, Leia isn't some fancy Chancellor and Luke isn't some all-powerful Jedi Grandmaster. And the New Republic isn't the uncontested power in the Galaxy, and there shouldn't be a Neo-Empire at all. Got it. Your vision of AN alternative sounds awful. Got it.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 4, 2018 13:33:10 GMT
If this was the only problem with the ST- that new characters steal the limelight(not that they exist at all) - then maybe i'd entertain your argument. But it's just one of MANY problems with this 'trilogy'. Yes yes yes, Han isn't some Fancy Republic Admiral, Leia isn't some fancy Chancellor and Luke isn't some all-powerful Jedi Grandmaster. And the New Republic isn't the uncontested power in the Galaxy, and there shouldn't be a Neo-Empire at all. Got it. Yes, yes, yes! An elitely trained Stormtrooper being a cowardly clown makes perfect sense. Yes,yes! Rey is the only SW protagonist who NEVER needs help. She should never, ever, ever be written to need help because that's misogynistic writing to accommodate bitter OT fans. (Never mind that Luke, Han, Leia, ObiWan, Lando, Anakin, QuiGon... all the other SW protagonists all needed help at least once). Got it.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 4, 2018 13:47:17 GMT
Yes yes yes, Han isn't some Fancy Republic Admiral, Leia isn't some fancy Chancellor and Luke isn't some all-powerful Jedi Grandmaster. And the New Republic isn't the uncontested power in the Galaxy, and there shouldn't be a Neo-Empire at all. Got it. Yes, yes, yes! An elitely trained Stormtrooper being a cowardly clown makes perfect sense. In an army of millions of conscripts who weren't there by choice but didn't have anywhere to run off to, you'll have folks like that. If it's for the sole purpose of showing off how awesome the OT characters are and how the ST characters are wholly inadequate and useless, then yes. Because the idea behind it is mean-spirited and not character-related. No one hated them for existing.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 4, 2018 13:47:53 GMT
Yes yes yes, Han isn't some Fancy Republic Admiral, Leia isn't some fancy Chancellor and Luke isn't some all-powerful Jedi Grandmaster. And the New Republic isn't the uncontested power in the Galaxy, and there shouldn't be a Neo-Empire at all. Got it. Your vision of AN alternative sounds awful. Got it. Well, thats' what happens when you end on "And they all lived happily ever after, the end forever".
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 4, 2018 13:59:20 GMT
Yes, yes, yes! An elitely trained Stormtrooper being a cowardly clown makes perfect sense. In an army of millions of conscripts who weren't there by choice but didn't have anywhere to run off to, you'll have folks like that. If it's for the sole purpose of showing off how awesome the OT characters are and how the ST characters are wholly inadequate and useless, then yes. Because the idea behind it is mean-spirited and not character-related. No one hated them for existing.
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