|
Post by Nalkarj on Apr 4, 2018 23:08:54 GMT
Hope no one minds if I throw in yet another ‘60s show (so many good shows…). There is so much to like about Thriller that I always feel like a bit of a grinch (yes, of course that’s on purpose) when I criticize it, but in many ways it achieved such notoriety between the original two years it aired and the much-ballyhooed DVD release a few years back that it just couldn’t live up to. That is not to say, however, that Thriller is a bad show or even that its weaker episodes are not without their good points. Its horror episodes are the ones that are remembered, and they’re by far the best episodes, so it’s kind of disheartening that 13 or so of the first 15 episodes are straightforward and rather weak crime dramas, and even later on in the series it’s not entirely horror-centered—which is, again, unfortunate, as the horror episodes are by and far Thriller’s best. Boris Karloff hosts, and his introductions are on par with Hitchcock’s and Serling’s—immensely entertaining even when the episode itself is weak. I haven’t seen all the episodes, but I have seen many of them. I’ll confess that I was a bit confused by how favorable some of them have been rated—especially “Pigeons from Hell,” which has some decent atmosphere but truly atrocious, nigh-unbearable acting. We can’t feel for any of the characters and are thus not particularly worried if anything’s going to go wrong for them. It’s best watched with the soundtrack off. “The Grim Reaper,” while far better than “Pigeons from Hell,” also seemed weaker to me than many claimed; the plot is good but (in a reversal of “Pigeons”) the atmosphere paltry, and Shatner (as is his wont) overacts. A far better Shatner episode is what I consider the series masterpiece, “The Hungry Glass,” which combines oodles of atmosphere, good acting, and very likeable characters. That episode is highly recommended. A few more I greatly enjoyed: “Well of Doom” is a rather ingenious re-working of Tod Browning’s London After Midnight/ Mark of the Vampire, with Henry Daniell wearing a reproduction of Chaney’s LAM vampire costume; “The Purple Room” has fun with haunted-house clichés and is indebted to “The Gentleman from America”; “Guillotine,” without supernatural elements (but still horrific), has a brilliant Cornell Woolrich plot set during the French Revolution; “God Grant that She Lye Stille” borrows a great deal from Bava’s Black Sunday but is lots of fun; and “The Storm” is an effective thriller that could have been a Suspense episode (but was, I’ve now learnt, a Studio One episode). Anyone here like this one or want to post some favorites?
|
|
|
Post by alpha128 on Apr 7, 2018 0:19:25 GMT
I've only seen two "Thiller" episodes, and I watched them on YouTube. The first episode was "The Hungry Glass" and I agree that it was excellent. The other one I saw was "The Cheaters", which was also great.
I meant to check out some more episodes on YouTube but never got around to it.
|
|
|
Post by Nalkarj on Apr 7, 2018 0:23:02 GMT
I've only seen two "Thiller" episodes, and I watched them on YouTube. The first episode was "The Hungry Glass" and I agree that it was excellent. The other one I saw was "The Cheaters", which was also great. I meant to check out some more episodes on YouTube but never got around to it. Yes, I should have mentioned they were all (or nearly all) on YouTube. Thanks! I haven’t yet seen “The Cheaters,” but it’s been rated very highly from what I’ve read. It’s one I will get around to. If/when you get around to some more Thriller, I’d love to read your thoughts!
|
|
|
Post by alpha128 on Apr 7, 2018 0:55:25 GMT
Yes, I should have mentioned they were all (or nearly all) on YouTube. Thanks! I haven’t yet seen “The Cheaters,” but it’s been rated very highly from what I’ve read. It’s one I will get around to. If/when you get around to some more Thriller, I’d love to read your thoughts! I own the book "Fantastic Television". It has a chapter on "Thiller" and lists "The Cheaters" as one of the best episodes. That's why I watched that particular episode - and it was excellent. I will check out more "Thiller" episodes and post my thoughts here.
|
|
|
Post by Richard Kimble on Apr 7, 2018 2:54:16 GMT
I've only seen a handful of episodes. Back in the '80s I got hold of a book w/a chapter on the show -- I think it may have been "Fantastic Television". All my adult life (30+ years) and part of my adolescence I've heard about how great "Pigeons From Hell" was. And I have to say I was disappointed. I do wish they could have used the ending from Robert Howard's story, though that may have been prevented by budgetary constraints. I'll add that Stephen King misremembered (overly) just how grisly the axe scene was.
I liked "The Hungry Glass" as well as a Karloff vehicle, "Dr. Markesan", which has one of the great endings of the era.
Robert Bloch's story about the tailor (can't recall titles) was also good, although lovable Henry Jones was miscast in the title role. Creepy George Macready was fine though.
Another Bloch story, "Yours Truly Jack The Ripper", is not bad (though it feels like a padded AHP episode) but will be anticlimactic to Star Trek fans.
I have a personal fondness for the one where in order to claim an inheritance Rip Torn must spend the night in a haunted house in spooky ol' Baton Rouge. Having lived a number of years in BR, it's amusing to see him arrive in town and show up at the Psycho house.
That's about all I can mention w/o an episode list.
|
|
|
Post by RiP, IMDb on Apr 11, 2018 8:32:40 GMT
I once solved two episodes from this series on IMDb; one was "The Purple Room" and the other was a Western-themed episode.
|
|
|
Post by telegonus on Apr 15, 2018 6:55:24 GMT
Hope no one minds if I throw in yet another ‘60s show (so many good shows…). There is so much to like about Thriller that I always feel like a bit of a grinch (yes, of course that’s on purpose) when I criticize it, but in many ways it achieved such notoriety between the original two years it aired and the much-ballyhooed DVD release a few years back that it just couldn’t live up to. That is not to say, however, that Thriller is a bad show or even that its weaker episodes are not without their good points. Its horror episodes are the ones that are remembered, and they’re by far the best episodes, so it’s kind of disheartening that 13 or so of the first 15 episodes are straightforward and rather weak crime dramas, and even later on in the series it’s not entirely horror-centered—which is, again, unfortunate, as the horror episodes are by and far Thriller’s best. Boris Karloff hosts, and his introductions are on par with Hitchcock’s and Serling’s—immensely entertaining even when the episode itself is weak. I haven’t seen all the episodes, but I have seen many of them. I’ll confess that I was a bit confused by how favorable some of them have been rated—especially “Pigeons from Hell,” which has some decent atmosphere but truly atrocious, nigh-unbearable acting. We can’t feel for any of the characters and are thus not particularly worried if anything’s going to go wrong for them. It’s best watched with the soundtrack off. “The Grim Reaper,” while far better than “Pigeons from Hell,” also seemed weaker to me than many claimed; the plot is good but (in a reversal of “Pigeons”) the atmosphere paltry, and Shatner (as is his wont) overacts. A far better Shatner episode is what I consider the series masterpiece, “The Hungry Glass,” which combines oodles of atmosphere, good acting, and very likeable characters. That episode is highly recommended. A few more I greatly enjoyed: “Well of Doom” is a rather ingenious re-working of Tod Browning’s London After Midnight/ Mark of the Vampire, with Henry Daniell wearing a reproduction of Chaney’s LAM vampire costume; “The Purple Room” has fun with haunted-house clichés and is indebted to “The Gentleman from America”; “Guillotine,” without supernatural elements (but still horrific), has a brilliant Cornell Woolrich plot set during the French Revolution; “God Grant that She Lye Stille” borrows a great deal from Bava’s Black Sunday but is lots of fun; and “The Storm” is an effective thriller that could have been a Suspense episode (but was, I’ve now learnt, a Studio One episode). Anyone here like this one or want to post some favorites? Thanks for posting on this classic TV series, Salzmank. It's clearly not to everyone's tastes, although, while I own no DVD of it I have a few episodes on tape and watch in whenever it's rerun on one of the digital channels. Maybe the best way too approach the show is as a high class anthology series that featured some horror episodes, was often spooky even when it wasn't horror focused, and which made to my eyes maybe the best use of the Universal back lot of any of the major anthology series of its era, with its nearest rival being, not surprisingly, Alfred Hitchcock's hour long show. Thriller went through a couple of producers before William Frye was settled on (so to speak) and it was he who turned the series toward horror in a major way, making it much more than a "thriller show", though it was that, too. I actually like the mix with crime and mystery episodes, especially as even they, many of them, have horror aspects to them; little moments of shock and surprise that one can't see coming. The production values are first rate even when an episode falls short in other areas. Also, Thriller did a couple of things particularly well. First, it captured the dark side of Camelot, of the Cold War era, really, and it did it as well as the better known Twilight Zone even as it did so less specifically. A bomb,--not THE bomb, but may as well have been--figures prominently in the crime entry The Fatal Impulse, which is a quite good episode even with its "mixed bag" qualities, such as Elisha Cook, Jr. as a serious bad guy, with a limp, no less; and non-smiling Mary Tyler Moore, seen briefly, as a not particularly helpful or observant witness. Cook's presence is borderline funny, while Moore is credibly bitchy. The other thing that the show handled well was that being filmed on the Universal lot, and featuring that studio's erstwhile "king of horror", Boris Karloff, as its host, it channeled the ambiance of the horror films of the studio era very well, and it did so without deliberately trying to imitate them. It didn't have to. The material was, literally, there. Amazingly, and in my opinion, miraculously, many old sets and props from old Universal horrors were still in use in the early Sixties; and they were put to good use on Thriller. I've noticed things on the show that were were present in films the studio made as far back as thirty years, and probably earlier. Another plus was the Psycho house, from the Alfred Hitchcock film of the same name, filmed at Uni but not distributed by them (it's a long story... ), and that house on the hill looks very much as it did in that 1960 movie. One episode that makes exceptionally good use of that house, inside and out, An Attractive Family, is actually a dark comedy, and a very good one. Yet grand as that house is it seemed to work in episodes that were a bit on the light side, such as Masquerade; or sentimental, like Mr. George, which I like very much. Yet more Thriller excellence: the music. Some people have complained that the score is too loud. In the opening credits, I agree; the music is too brassy, strident and modern feeling. The scores written for individual episodes, however, are often brilliant, and all by themselves. There are many I could listen to for pleasure. Jerry Goldsmith wrote a number of them. A lot of the scores feature string instruments prominently, and I think it's those scores that fans of the show remember best. Also, the use of "folk" elements, often, fittingly, in most cases, British or Celtic feeling; while in many instances more American, with similar themes repeated, often on different instruments. Novelist Stephen King is a big fan of the series, and he helped popularize it in his book Danse Macabre. Yet the show itself doesn't feel or play like anything by Stephen King that I know of. It's much more subtle than King's work; its tone and overall atmosphere is near European, often British; and many episodes are set abroad, usually but not always in Europe. Even the "American Gothic" entries, set in the Deep South, New England or "old New York" have that "faraway feel" to them, as places apart and away from the world as we know it today; as of fifty to sixty years ago, that is.
|
|
|
Post by telegonus on Apr 15, 2018 8:07:46 GMT
Addendum: having written a several paragraphs post praising Thriller it's just occurred to me that I neglected to get much below the surface in discussing why it works so well as to its individual episodes. The justly famous The Cheaters may well have been the first episode I saw. This was when the show was still in its first run. It's a favorite of mine to this day even as it has its share of dull stretches. This is not a perfect entry, but it's a great one. It begins with an intro showing an 18th century inventor, Dirk Van Prinn, and his work on a pair of eyeglasses he is making. What happens when he puts them on the viewer cannot see, but what the viewer can see is that Van Prinn is horrified, his face contorted...and then the story moves to the present day, 1960, and we see junkman Joe Henshaw and his nagging wife, who's also, clearly, cheating on him with his young stud of an assistant, as played by Ed Nelson.
Henshaw, played by Paul Newlan, has bought the rights to the contents of the old Van Prinn house, located, presumably in one of the outer boroughs of New York City (I'm guessing Brooklyn); and before long, when a small drawer on the side of an old desk springs open, revealing the pair of spectacles, trouble begins. Joe's eyesight is poor and he has a difficult time reading, and when he puts on the glasses, when home, he is delighted to learn that they work. Alas, for Joe, they do other things as well. On the inside of the rim is the word veritas, which Joe soon learns from his educated young assistant, is the Latin word for truth, and it's the truth that Joe is about to hear when he wears the glasses: the truth of his cheating wife and her young lover, their contempt for Joe, their plan to poison him.
What follows is tragedy ending in a double homicide, with more to come in the next installment (The Cheaters features four different stories in its chronicling of the glasses and the havoc they wreak). In the final section we are introduced to a writer, Sebastian Grimm (Harry Townes, and superb in the role), who acquires the glasses in the wake of another murder, over a game of cards, during a party at which he happened to be a guest. Grimm had researched the eponymous cheaters (old-time slang for eyeglasses), had learned something, but not all, of what they were and why possession of them led to such dire consequences. Grimm has a caring and loving wife, who wants him to remain safe and sound; however his curiosity gets the best of him and he decides to go full tilt and visit the soon to be demolished Van Prinn house and find out more about the spectacles. What transpires as a result leads to probably the best remembered and, for those who saw this episode at a young age, most frightening of all endings of a Thriller entry, as what had begun as a mystery tale with potentially supernatural or uncanny elements had turned in his final moments into an outright gruesome horror. It's a harrowing ending, dark and haunting to watch even today.
It's difficult to do full justice to this episode by simply describing it and some of its key plot elements. Based on a Robert Bloch story, it is, like so many Bloch tales, a modern story told in Gothic mode. The dead hand of the past reaching out from Beyond to do damage in the present is a theme in many horror stories, and this one is no exception. If its characters could have lived, well and simply, in the present, things wouldn't have ended so badly for so many of them. Its horrors go beyond the easy "and curiosity killed the cat". That's part of it, for sure, but so too is hubris, that overwhelming pride,--beyond mere narcissism as such--that many of us are prone to. We see it early on, with Van Prinn and his secret experiments, aiming to get at not "merely" one truth, but the Truth; and later, in the man with the similar name, Grimm, a failed writer who hankers to join the great men of history, puts on the glasses, looks into the mirror to see if he can join their company. In a manner of speaking he does join them, but not in the way he sought to.
Aside from being a great horror story, The Cheaters is a cautionary tale as well. There's a lesson in it for us all; and it's worth it for each and every one of us to look into our own souls and try to apply its message to one's own life. What it says about us, each of us, really, is not flattering, and yet I believe it's worth looking inside oneself every now and then, without any cheating, to see what's really going on. For the egotists among us, it pulls us down from the pedestals we have built for ourselves; however the good news is that where we land, with out feet firmly on the ground, is the better place to be.
|
|
|
Post by Nalkarj on Apr 16, 2018 17:14:05 GMT
Many thanks for your thoughtful and well-written analysis, telegonus. While I may, perhaps, have a few more caveats with the show than you, I don’t think there’s anything on which we seriously disagree. Of course, I also love the Universal atmosphere and the Psycho house! As noted, I haven’t yet seen “The Cheaters,” though it’s high on my to-see list. This is something I’ve noted as well, especially as I have (and, from your comments, you may also have) a fascination with places, locations, that have deep-rooted histories. There’s a kind of mystery and magic about these old places, which is one of the reasons that these unusual locales in the Deep South, New England, or old New York appeal to me as well. Indeed, that might have been one of the reasons why I found “The Grim Reaper,” set in then-contemporary LA, so unatmospheric (the opening, with Henry Daniell, was good, though). I’ve already written of my fondness for “The Hungry Glass,” but—once again—the sense of place and place-atmosphere was another aspect I really liked. That kind of New England, which I love, doesn’t quite exist any more, though I can see vestiges of it on Massachusetts’s North Shore…
|
|
|
Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Apr 16, 2018 19:49:38 GMT
For decades heard it mentioned fondly but I have never seen a single episode of it. Never played much unlike AHP or TZ.
|
|
|
Post by telegonus on Apr 17, 2018 8:07:47 GMT
Many thanks for your thoughtful and well-written analysis, telegonus . While I may, perhaps, have a few more caveats with the show than you, I don’t think there’s anything on which we seriously disagree. Of course, I also love the Universal atmosphere and the Psycho house! As noted, I haven’t yet seen “The Cheaters,” though it’s high on my to-see list. This is something I’ve noted as well, especially as I have (and, from your comments, you may also have) a fascination with places, locations, that have deep-rooted histories. There’s a kind of mystery and magic about these old places, which is one of the reasons that these unusual locales in the Deep South, New England, or old New York appeal to me as well. Indeed, that might have been one of the reasons why I found “The Grim Reaper,” set in then-contemporary LA, so unatmospheric (the opening, with Henry Daniell, was good, though). I’ve already written of my fondness for “The Hungry Glass,” but—once again—the sense of place and place-atmosphere was another aspect I really liked. That kind of New England, which I love, doesn’t quite exist any more, though I can see vestiges of it on Massachusetts’s North Shore… I love the quaintness of Thrillers, or the ones that adopt that style. The Hungry Glass was retro for its day. Yet as a New England guy I can still remember those old Yankee accents, Down East sounding,--the episode caught that well, although some of the actors overdid it--was common along even the Massachusetts coast, north and south of Boston. You could here it on Cape Cod as well as Cape Ann. As to those places with deep rooted histories, they're practically a Thriller trope when they go for horror. It's there in even many early episodes, and can be seen in all its glory in The Purple Room, The Hollow Watcher, Mr. George, Well Of Doom, The Closed Cabinet, God Grant That She Lye Still, The Waxworks, Pigeons From Hell, The Incredible Dr. Markesan and so many other entries, often featuring backward rustic locals, or simply "unbelieving" neighbors and in some case "too believing" ones, too.
|
|
|
Post by telegonus on Apr 17, 2018 8:12:17 GMT
Many thanks for your thoughtful and well-written analysis, telegonus . While I may, perhaps, have a few more caveats with the show than you, I don’t think there’s anything on which we seriously disagree. Of course, I also love the Universal atmosphere and the Psycho house! As noted, I haven’t yet seen “The Cheaters,” though it’s high on my to-see list. This is something I’ve noted as well, especially as I have (and, from your comments, you may also have) a fascination with places, locations, that have deep-rooted histories. There’s a kind of mystery and magic about these old places, which is one of the reasons that these unusual locales in the Deep South, New England, or old New York appeal to me as well. Indeed, that might have been one of the reasons why I found “The Grim Reaper,” set in then-contemporary LA, so unatmospheric (the opening, with Henry Daniell, was good, though). I’ve already written of my fondness for “The Hungry Glass,” but—once again—the sense of place and place-atmosphere was another aspect I really liked. That kind of New England, which I love, doesn’t quite exist any more, though I can see vestiges of it on Massachusetts’s North Shore… Also, Salzmank, I thank you for responding to my post the way you did.
|
|
|
Post by Richard Kimble on Apr 18, 2018 7:32:54 GMT
telegonus Nalkarj I watched "The Cheaters". The ending is indeed memorable. But I feel the episode's overall impact is blunted by the episodic structure. Perhaps the script could have dumped the junkman and the writer, and just dealt w/the old scientist prologue, then the old lady and her greedy relatives as the main story. It was interesting to see Harry Townes cast so much against type as the theatrically flamboyant writer. He usually played more down to earth characters.
|
|
|
Post by telegonus on Apr 18, 2018 8:52:22 GMT
telegonus Nalkarj I watched "The Cheaters". The ending is indeed memorable. But I feel the episode's overall impact is blunted by the episodic structure. Perhaps the script could have dumped the junkman and the writer, and just dealt w/the old scientist prologue, then the old lady and her greedy relatives as the main story. It was interesting to see Harry Townes cast so much against type as the theatrically flamboyant writer. He usually played more down to earth characters. Thanks, Richard. I'm way prejudiced in favor of Thriller and The Cheaters to a degree that colors my judgment of everything about the show, as I remember it so well. If one views it only as an adult, through adult eyes, cannot get into the groove of the America of more than half a century ago, when nearly all television and half the movies were black and white, and so durned much was censored, one's objectivity, in good and bad ways, can get in the way of one's perceptions (yes, there's a joke in this...somewhere), as adults lend to think about things and then like them, while kids and younger grownups react more viscerally. Thriller's charms, such as they can be called, are so tied to its presentation, and as I can still recapture the affect of my growing up years, all I have to do to enjoy it and watch it, leave judgment, common sense and logic in general aside. There are times when I can watch a Thriller episode and see what's wrong with it. The Weird Tailor, a good one but an entry heavily dependent on viewer empathy for the way its story is told, is one such. I like it but I can clearly see what's wrong with it; and even the presence of George Macready and Henry Jones can't make me completely buy into it. Yet the "Appalachian Gothic" The Hollow Watcher, which I saw as a child and have watched many times as an adult, still draws me in, right down to its fiery climax. As to The Cheaters for a first time viewer, I hear ya'. Some viewers, including people who love the show and the episode, have compared it to the Anthony Mann western Winchester 73. The "cheaters" of the title are the rifle. It's a horror version. I think that's a fair assessment. The episodic aspects of The Cheaters hurt it in the middle section in particular, post-Junkman Joe, pre-all about Sebastian Grimm. I do think it wraps things up, well, not nicely,--wrong word--okay, with a kind of fearful symmetry, if you will (and more fearful than symmetrical). As many reviewers have noted over the years, Harry Townes really sells it. He goes nearly but not quite over the top in the part, and I believe that his performance is maybe the best and most defining of all in the series; and not because I think that Townes was the best actor on the show but because the role brought out the best in him, it tested him, and he crashed through.
|
|
|
Post by Richard Kimble on Apr 18, 2018 10:51:57 GMT
telegonus Tele, as much I respect you as a poster, I think you're coming perilously close to playing what I call the "nostalgia card". It's something, in its most extreme form, that I dread seeing on music boards ("Aerosmith is tGOAT band!!! I was listening to them the first time I got wasted!!!!"), if only because it pretty much shuts down discussion. Of course your defense of it is modest and very reasonable. A little nostalgia is fine -- I love reading the reminiscences from you and our old comrade clore -- but it needs to be kept at controllable levels. Thriller was indeed before my time. I can relate better (in the sense you speak of) to The Twilight Zone, as I first saw that in the '70s as a preteen. I still remember the first time I saw "A Nice Place to Visit", with Larry Blyden as the gangster in paradise. Even a much-derided episode like "The Gift" had a profound effect on me at that age. I never saw Thriller until a few years ago. Its run was too short and it was just too limited in mass appeal to be syndicated in my benighted backwater. In fact until I read the chapter in Fantastic Television I knew nothing about it aside from Bloch's "Yours Truly, Jack The Ripper" and its relationship to Star Trek. Still, not to be too conceited but I think I can be reasonably empathetic to what it was like to watch Thriller in its original airing. I'm old enough to remember 2 TV channels in my hometown. I've seen enough contemporary TV dramas to know what was and wasn't allowed -- I understand how big a deal it must have been watching The Big Valley pilot and hear Lee Majors tell Peter Breck, "I'm your father's bastard son!!" (a line cut from syndication for decades). Also I'm aware of something that you of course know about as well, but forgot to mention: the huge influence of Universal releasing its horror movies to TV in (I believe) 1957. This would have a major impact not only on Thriller (even the very presence of Karloff was a link to this tradition) but the "Bug Eyed Monsters" of The Outer Limits as well. Now that my ego trip is over, as to specific episodes: It's interesting you brought up Winchester '73, which did not occur to me. I kept thinking of La Ronde and a '70s TV movie called The Gun. I believe there is a name for this type of story, but I can't remember what it is. I still think it would have worked better with one main story. Since you're so fond of Townes here we could make him Mildred Dunnock's good-for-nothing nephew and only heir. Anyone here read Bloch's story? I thought lovable Henry Jones was miscast in "The Weird Tailor". It needed a more unsettling actor. But Macready was great, and it was fun seeing Abraham Sofaer as... a used car salesman! Your discussion of Thriller's "Gothic" qualities reminds me of Stephen King's comment that Richard Matheson took horror out of the Gothic mansion and let it happen anywhere, even the minimart down the street. Dimensionx/X Minus 1 had done that for SF, although Serling and TZ would get the credit. Thriller can be seen as a transitional series, slowly moving from Gothic horror to the more everyday locale.
|
|
|
Post by telegonus on Apr 18, 2018 17:43:20 GMT
I understand what you're saying, Richard but I don't think that in discussing 20th century pop culture, our thoughts, feelings and ideas about it need to be omitted or set aside. So much about art, popular and otherwise, is subjective. We love certain things because they affect us in a certain way. If we were discussing the 19th century European novel, from Flaubert to Dostoyevsky, and everyone in-between, our discussion could get more serious and more, shall we day, pedantic. Academicians do this because their careers, their reputations, often depend on it. I see no reason why we should get into such detailed analysis here, aside from from the sheer (or is it mere?) pleasure of expressing ourselves in an on-line forum.
But that's me. The aforementioned, I mean. Classic American film and television is really up for grabs as to its status as art, any kind of art, and as to what's better, Lucy's sitcom or Mary's, the Duke's westerns or Clint's. I have opinions on these matters, too, but I'm also aware of the variety of opinions, people and, loosely speaking, aesthetics involved when discussing such matters. An argument I hear today from people much younger than myself is how much better television is today compared to fifty or sixty years ago. I know what they're saying: more naturalistic dialogue and acting, looser and more creative story development, whether in comedy or drama; and overall a more adult sensibility at work. Prime time today isn't only for mom, dad and the kids, the way it was in the heyday of the TV westerns and sitcoms of our growing up years.
My time right now is limited due to real life responsibilities that need attending to but I just wanted to check in and respond. One last thought: I see nothing perilous in doing what you describe as playing the nostalgia card. All I was doing was yielding to my own experience and subjectivity, not saying "my childhood TV shows were better than yours" or anything along those lines. My fondness for black and white over color, or rather all-color, is more serious, though it too is subjective. In any event, I'm simply writing here to express myself, not have the last word in discussing TV and the movies. What I do tend to steer clear of is the "microscope", which is to say a one size fits all aesthetic or perspective on films and television that must rule out one set of responses and ideas, and which must adhere to certain rigorous standards. I'm not ready for that. Also, I think it's too early, by which I mean in the history of film and television, to come up with one set of standards, even if flexible, and reject others, even when they're intellectually appealing, especially when there's an air of finality to such standards; but then the same could be said about death.
|
|
|
Post by telegonus on Apr 19, 2018 6:46:03 GMT
Hope no one minds if I throw in yet another ‘60s show (so many good shows…). There is so much to like about Thriller that I always feel like a bit of a grinch (yes, of course that’s on purpose) when I criticize it, but in many ways it achieved such notoriety between the original two years it aired and the much-ballyhooed DVD release a few years back that it just couldn’t live up to. That is not to say, however, that Thriller is a bad show or even that its weaker episodes are not without their good points. Its horror episodes are the ones that are remembered, and they’re by far the best episodes, so it’s kind of disheartening that 13 or so of the first 15 episodes are straightforward and rather weak crime dramas, and even later on in the series it’s not entirely horror-centered—which is, again, unfortunate, as the horror episodes are by and far Thriller’s best. Boris Karloff hosts, and his introductions are on par with Hitchcock’s and Serling’s—immensely entertaining even when the episode itself is weak. I haven’t seen all the episodes, but I have seen many of them. I’ll confess that I was a bit confused by how favorable some of them have been rated—especially “Pigeons from Hell,” which has some decent atmosphere but truly atrocious, nigh-unbearable acting. We can’t feel for any of the characters and are thus not particularly worried if anything’s going to go wrong for them. It’s best watched with the soundtrack off. “The Grim Reaper,” while far better than “Pigeons from Hell,” also seemed weaker to me than many claimed; the plot is good but (in a reversal of “Pigeons”) the atmosphere paltry, and Shatner (as is his wont) overacts. A far better Shatner episode is what I consider the series masterpiece, “The Hungry Glass,” which combines oodles of atmosphere, good acting, and very likeable characters. That episode is highly recommended. A few more I greatly enjoyed: “Well of Doom” is a rather ingenious re-working of Tod Browning’s London After Midnight/ Mark of the Vampire, with Henry Daniell wearing a reproduction of Chaney’s LAM vampire costume; “The Purple Room” has fun with haunted-house clichés and is indebted to “The Gentleman from America”; “Guillotine,” without supernatural elements (but still horrific), has a brilliant Cornell Woolrich plot set during the French Revolution; “God Grant that She Lye Stille” borrows a great deal from Bava’s Black Sunday but is lots of fun; and “The Storm” is an effective thriller that could have been a Suspense episode (but was, I’ve now learnt, a Studio One episode). Anyone here like this one or want to post some favorites? I agree, Salzmank regarding the performances of the two young actors in Pigeons From Hell; Brandon de Wilde in particular is simply not up to the job. Once he grew up he became a rather bland, passive actor, and I sense that he's trying very hard in Pigeons to ramp it up, and he does; but he doesn't make a good job of it. Robert Howard's story is better and spookier than the Thriller version of it. Still, the young actors aside, I find this one compelling. It draws me in and gets downright surreal early and often. The scene with the brother coming down the stairs with the hatchet is exceptionally gruesome for the prime prime of the early Sixties, and it must have been a true shocker back then. I found it frightening when I first saw it in reruns, but that was decades ago. It would be interesting to see Pigeons as a silent episode, although the music is essential to its working, as are the pigeon sounds. The more grownup actors work well for me. In the case of Ottola Nesmith it's the way she looks and is made up. The quick close-up to her ugly old hands is startling. Also, I'm a huge admirer of Crahan Denton as an actor, and for me he works wonders as Sheriff Buckner. There's a groundedness to him, a maturity, that's downright comforting; under the circumstances, that is. His line readings and no-nonsense attitude are major assets here; and for me he's the true star of the episode, as I see it, and its hero, such as it has one. Also, the back story, the reading from diaries and the like, while non-cinematic, helped put the story in its historical context; and this was rare for a TV series then. Honorable mention for the wonderful Ken Renard as the ancient, half-mad Jacob Blount. His character said some important things, also added yet more back story. Overall, Pigeons From Hell is a favorite Thriller of mine, and it makes wonderful use of what was available on the Universal lot to create a creepy Deep South atmosphere. John Newland made a good job of it as director, with his staging of scenes highly effective. He knew what to show, and when. I've watched it several times over the past few years and it always holds my interest.
|
|
|
Post by Richard Kimble on Apr 19, 2018 18:20:03 GMT
I'm a huge admirer of Crahan Denton as an actor, and for me he works wonders as Sheriff Buckner. There's a groundedness to him, a maturity, that's downright comforting; under the circumstances, that is. His line readings and no-nonsense attitude are major assets here; and for me he's the true star of the episode, as I see it, and its hero, such as it has one. Was this his best role? Wait, just looked him up on Wiki -- he's in To Kill A Mockingbird as the lynch mob leader. I don't remember that at all; I do recall him as the prison guard Stroud kills in Birdman of Alcatraz. Although most associated w/Southern characters Denton was a West Coaster, raised in Seattle and a graduate of Berkeley. FWIW Wiki claims his first name was pronounced "Kran". Crahan Denton died of a heart attack in 1966 at age 52. telegonusI'm not even close to digesting your post directed toward me, much less replying to it. However I did want to mention one thing: I hope your real-life concerns are only a minor and temporary inconvenience, as your posts here are always a welcome sight.
|
|
|
Post by telegonus on Apr 19, 2018 18:50:53 GMT
I'm a huge admirer of Crahan Denton as an actor, and for me he works wonders as Sheriff Buckner. There's a groundedness to him, a maturity, that's downright comforting; under the circumstances, that is. His line readings and no-nonsense attitude are major assets here; and for me he's the true star of the episode, as I see it, and its hero, such as it has one. Was this his best role? Wait, just looked him up on Wiki -- he's in To Kill A Mockingbird as the lynch mob leader. I don't remember that at all; I do recall him as the prison guard Stroud kills in Birdman of Alcatraz. Although most associated w/Southern characters Denton was a West Coaster, raised in Seattle and a graduate of Berkeley. FWIW Wiki claims his first name was pronounced "Kran". Crahan Denton died of a heart attack in 1966 at age 52. telegonus I'm not even close to digesting your post directed toward me, much less replying to it. However I did want to mention one thing: I hope your real-life concerns are only a minor and temporary inconvenience, as your posts here are always a welcome sight. Well thank you for the nice words and concern, Richard. Today is much easier, though the next two or three months are going to be rough, as much for financial reasons and the massive cost of pending dental work, but that's another story, and it feels strange even bringing stuff like this up here, although this is a Thriller thread, so maybe it does belong here. Wasn't Crahan Denton born in Washington state? That's maybe the last state I'd expect him to have come from after maybe Vermont. He always came across to me as Southern, and I'm guessing his family came from there. A lot of Southerners migrated northwest in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. This much I know. Denton's drawl, if it can be called that, was light; and yet when playing an actual Southerner he always came across to me as 100%, not acting. Pigeons From Hell may well have been one of Denton's larger roles as a TV guest star. It's practically the lead, especially given the weak performances of his fellow players. I like that he has the last word, literally the last words, in that episode ("Eula Lee...Eula Lee"). It ends quietly, and that feels just right to me. He was Mr. Cunningham in To Kill A Mockingbird, bringing a bag of nuts (chestnuts?) to Atticus Finch early on as part of a payment he owed for some legal work Atticus had done for him. Man, that movie has some stern male players in major parts! Gregory Peck was solemn enough; and then there was Frank Overton's lawman; then Denton. James Anderson's lively (and sadistic) Bob Ewell was almost like a relief, though not comic, from all the other serious middle aged men in the movie (some of which rather plays like a Thriller episode . in its American Gothic aspects). To return to Mr. Denton one last time: I've read that he was a heavy drinker, and that this hurt his career, and that alcohol was a likely major contributing factor in his early death. He had such a tragic face.
|
|
|
Post by Nalkarj on Apr 19, 2018 21:03:26 GMT
I second Richard’s words, telegonus ; I always appreciate your posts here so very much. I wonder if I’d have appreciated “Pigeons from Hell” more if I’d seen it when it came on TV, if only for the shock value (this may touch on Richard’s point about nostalgia, though I think I’m more inclined to agree with you on the subject). I agree absolutely about the atmosphere, something I always adore in cinematic horror (to be honest, more terror than horror, but so be it), but I just grew so annoyed with the acting (and the somewhat disappointing ending, a problem from which many Thrillers suffer, I’ve noticed) that the episode really turned me off. I’d have to take another look at the episode (and I will, but I’ll look at “The Cheaters” first, maybe tonight if I find time). On John Scoleri and Peter Enfantino’s ‘Thriller a Day’ blog, Gary Gerani writes that the episode is more “…a fever dream more than a story,” which is the kind of thing I like—so I will take another look. But I appreciate it when the fever dream feel is on purpose, including stylized acting (e.g., Burton’s Sleepy Hollow or Neil Jordan’s The Company of Wolves), and I’m just not sure about that with “Pigeons.” Again, De Wilde and Whorf’s acting is not even stylized, it’s simply bad.
|
|