|
Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 9, 2018 16:47:56 GMT
And that sentence right there says everything about you. I like movies that aren't all just filibusters for "the big idea/theme" and that have actual characters and not 1-note fanatics/archetypes. Which is all Nolan writes. No it doesn't. Nah. He's predictable. Always has a lead who is just a 1-note fanatic or a bare-bones archetype, always relying on "Wall of Noise" music instead of anything nuanced, always more about "the big theme" than anything else. Hell, his Batman Movies wouldn't do as well if they came out in todays' environment. The OT characters aren't going to be the leads of any sequels and new character are inevitable, accept it. And accept there'll be new enemies, thus automatically meaning the "Permanent Peace" ending of ROTJ is undone. It's unavoidable if you're doing a sequel. "Permanent peace ending"? Why? The ending was the republic and the rebels celebrating a big win over the empire. The second Death Star was destroyed and the Emperor with it. And on top of that Darth Vader is no more. The fight still continued.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 16:51:24 GMT
I like movies that aren't all just filibusters for "the big idea/theme" and that have actual characters and not 1-note fanatics/archetypes. Which is all Nolan writes. No it doesn't. Nah. He's predictable. Always has a lead who is just a 1-note fanatic or a bare-bones archetype, always relying on "Wall of Noise" music instead of anything nuanced, always more about "the big theme" than anything else. Hell, his Batman Movies wouldn't do as well if they came out in todays' environment. The OT characters aren't going to be the leads of any sequels and new character are inevitable, accept it. And accept there'll be new enemies, thus automatically meaning the "Permanent Peace" ending of ROTJ is undone. It's unavoidable if you're doing a sequel. "Permanent peace ending"? Why? The ending was the republic and the rebels celebrating a big win over the empire. The second Death Star was destroyed and the Emperor with it. And on top of that Darth Vader is no more. The fight still continued. If that were true, then no one would be annoyed that the ST had a new enemy. But they are. As far as they're concerned ROTJ was a "And they all lived happily ever after, the end" ending.
Of course, the only thing they hated MORE than there being a new enemy was that the ST would have new leads instead of being about the continuing adventures of Luke/Han/Leia. Because the idea that they couldn't beat this new enemy ALL ON THEIR OWN and that there'd be new leads doing it was utterly repugnant and ruins the OT characters because they're no longer as powerful as they were in the OT.
So it's a no-win scenario.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 17:14:05 GMT
Nah. He's predictable. Always has a lead who is just a 1-note fanatic or a bare-bones archetype, always relying on "Wall of Noise" music instead of anything nuanced, always more about "the big theme" than anything else. Hell, his Batman Movies wouldn't do as well if they came out in todays' environment. Dark Knight in particular was predictable as Hell and only got real attention thanks to Ledger and his you-know-what. I think we're done here. Your idea of "good cinema" sucks something fierce. Not sure if you're a troll. But either way, we're done here.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 17:16:59 GMT
Nah. He's predictable. Always has a lead who is just a 1-note fanatic or a bare-bones archetype, always relying on "Wall of Noise" music instead of anything nuanced, always more about "the big theme" than anything else. Hell, his Batman Movies wouldn't do as well if they came out in todays' environment. Dark Knight in particular was predictable as Hell and only got real attention thanks to Ledger and his you-know-what. I think we're done here. Your idea of "good cinema" sucks something fierce. Not sure if you're a troll. But either way, we're done here. I gave him the benefit of the doubt until "Inception" when I learned Leo's motivations. He should've known messing with his wife's mind would come back to bite him in the ass but he allowed his obsessions to get the better of him. Like most Nolan leads. Since then I realized this keeps happening in his movies.
|
|
|
Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 9, 2018 17:17:12 GMT
"Permanent peace ending"? Why? The ending was the republic and the rebels celebrating a big win over the empire. The second Death Star was destroyed and the Emperor with it. And on top of that Darth Vader is no more. The fight still continued. If that were true, then no one would be annoyed that the ST had a new enemy. But they are. As far as they're concerned ROTJ was a "And they all lived happily ever after, the end" ending.
Of course, the only thing they hated MORE than there being a new enemy was that the ST would have new leads instead of being about the continuing adventures of Luke/Han/Leia. Because the idea that they couldn't beat this new enemy ALL ON THEIR OWN and that there'd be new leads doing it was utterly repugnant and ruins the OT characters because they're no longer as powerful as they were in the OT.
So it's a no-win scenario.
New? No bullshit. The First Order is nothing more than the Empire reskinned, just like the resistance is just the Rebellion reskinned. That's why most of us were upset with episode 7 and 8. It's unoriginal. I find it ironic that the one who complained about Fox and DC playing it safe and being lazy, is defending Disney for doing the same thing.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 17:39:02 GMT
If that were true, then no one would be annoyed that the ST had a new enemy. But they are. As far as they're concerned ROTJ was a "And they all lived happily ever after, the end" ending.
Of course, the only thing they hated MORE than there being a new enemy was that the ST would have new leads instead of being about the continuing adventures of Luke/Han/Leia. Because the idea that they couldn't beat this new enemy ALL ON THEIR OWN and that there'd be new leads doing it was utterly repugnant and ruins the OT characters because they're no longer as powerful as they were in the OT.
So it's a no-win scenario.
New? No bullshit. The First Order is nothing more than the Empire reskinned, just like the resistance is just the Rebellion reskinned. That's why most of us were upset with episode 7 and 8. It's unoriginal. No-Win Scenario, thanks to the Prequels the audience wasn't going to accept stories of equal factions fighting (like the Republic vs the Separatists) or a Political story of rebuilding the New Republic. So their only real option was to go for nostalgia.
Fox and DC don't have any excuse for their conservatism, because they're never tried anything new. Star Wars tried new stuff with the PT and it got trashed, so Disney didn't have that option if they wanted to rebuild faith in the Star Wars brand while moving beyond the OT period.
Which doesn't change the fact that any new conflicts would make the end of ROTJ no longer a "And they all lived Happily Ever After" ending and if there are new leads it's automatically insulting to the OT characters because if the OT characters were maintained as the Ultimate Heroes they were in the OT there'd never be any new threats and never be a new for new leads. So the mere existence of new leads insults the OT characters.
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 9, 2018 20:07:14 GMT
Damn, formersamhmd getting smacked around from pillar to post in this thread...
|
|
|
Post by leesilm on Apr 9, 2018 20:23:09 GMT
I don't think you have to have terrible taste to dislike Nolan films. And as for his Batman trilogy. I only ever liked the first movie- granted the last Christian Bale movie (aside from Batman Begins) where his presence didn't ruin the movie/experience for me was MIO IN THE LAND OF FARAWAY (co-starring the late Christopher Lee). Some people just don't care for him, and as is my case a lot of the time, some just dislike his casting choices. Although, I give him kudos for having his stable of actors he goes to frequently. I like that in a director.
|
|
|
Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 9, 2018 20:34:57 GMT
And that sentence right there says everything about you. I like movies that aren't all just filibusters for "the big idea/theme" and that have actual characters and not 1-note fanatics/archetypes. Which is all Nolan writes. No it doesn't. Nah. He's predictable. Always has a lead who is just a 1-note fanatic or a bare-bones archetype, always relying on "Wall of Noise" music instead of anything nuanced, always more about "the big theme" than anything else. Hell, his Batman Movies wouldn't do as well if they came out in todays' environment. Dark Knight in particular was predictable as Hell and only got real attention thanks to Ledger and his you-know-what. The OT characters aren't going to be the leads of any sequels and new character are inevitable, accept it. And accept there'll be new enemies, thus automatically meaning the "Permanent Peace" ending of ROTJ is undone. It's unavoidable if you're doing a sequel. The OT characters are done. One note character archetypes are all that you do like! That's all that most of the new ST characters are! Disney channel archetypes! The truth of everything is always the opposite of what you say. And the evidence always proves it. You are so absurd that it's laugh out loud funny! Maybe @captaintarpals is right. Maybe you are a paid Disney shill.. masquerading as a troll... masquerading as thought-out, opinionated fan of Disney backed movies. You know why your arguments are such illogical nonsense and circle jerk trolling. Because the product you try to defend is entertainment garbage.
|
|
|
Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 9, 2018 20:38:14 GMT
"Permanent peace ending"? Why? The ending was the republic and the rebels celebrating a big win over the empire. The second Death Star was destroyed and the Emperor with it. And on top of that Darth Vader is no more. The fight still continued. If that were true, then no one would be annoyed that the ST had a new enemy. But they are. As far as they're concerned ROTJ was a "And they all lived happily ever after, the end" ending.
Of course, the only thing they hated MORE than there being a new enemy was that the ST would have new leads instead of being about the continuing adventures of Luke/Han/Leia. Because the idea that they couldn't beat this new enemy ALL ON THEIR OWN and that there'd be new leads doing it was utterly repugnant and ruins the OT characters because they're no longer as powerful as they were in the OT.
So it's a no-win scenario.
|
|
|
Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 9, 2018 20:38:57 GMT
New? No bullshit. The First Order is nothing more than the Empire reskinned, just like the resistance is just the Rebellion reskinned. That's why most of us were upset with episode 7 and 8. It's unoriginal. No-Win Scenario, thanks to the Prequels the audience wasn't going to accept stories of equal factions fighting (like the Republic vs the Separatists) or a Political story of rebuilding the New Republic. So their only real option was to go for nostalgia.
Fox and DC don't have any excuse for their conservatism, because they're never tried anything new. Star Wars tried new stuff with the PT and it got trashed, so Disney didn't have that option if they wanted to rebuild faith in the Star Wars brand while moving beyond the OT period.
Which doesn't change the fact that any new conflicts would make the end of ROTJ no longer a "And they all lived Happily Ever After" ending and if there are new leads it's automatically insulting to the OT characters because if the OT characters were maintained as the Ultimate Heroes they were in the OT there'd never be any new threats and never be a new for new leads. So the mere existence of new leads insults the OT characters.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 20:38:58 GMT
I like movies that aren't all just filibusters for "the big idea/theme" and that have actual characters and not 1-note fanatics/archetypes. Which is all Nolan writes. No it doesn't. Nah. He's predictable. Always has a lead who is just a 1-note fanatic or a bare-bones archetype, always relying on "Wall of Noise" music instead of anything nuanced, always more about "the big theme" than anything else. Hell, his Batman Movies wouldn't do as well if they came out in todays' environment. Dark Knight in particular was predictable as Hell and only got real attention thanks to Ledger and his you-know-what. The OT characters aren't going to be the leads of any sequels and new character are inevitable, accept it. And accept there'll be new enemies, thus automatically meaning the "Permanent Peace" ending of ROTJ is undone. It's unavoidable if you're doing a sequel. The OT characters are done. One note character archetypes are all that you do like! That's all that most of the new ST characters are! The OT characters are archetypes too, like Luke and Han and Obi-Wan. As for the above...any new conflict the ST could give us would've undone the ROTJ ending. Because ROTJ's ending was "It's done, this is the end". Same with "maintain the OT characters", they were written as too heroic and too good to EVER need help or replacing, so if you leave them that way then there's no need for anything new. Because as they were, the OT cast would've been able to deal with any new threats and never need any replacing.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 20:42:45 GMT
No-Win Scenario, thanks to the Prequels the audience wasn't going to accept stories of equal factions fighting (like the Republic vs the Separatists) or a Political story of rebuilding the New Republic. So their only real option was to go for nostalgia.
Fox and DC don't have any excuse for their conservatism, because they're never tried anything new. Star Wars tried new stuff with the PT and it got trashed, so Disney didn't have that option if they wanted to rebuild faith in the Star Wars brand while moving beyond the OT period.
Which doesn't change the fact that any new conflicts would make the end of ROTJ no longer a "And they all lived Happily Ever After" ending and if there are new leads it's automatically insulting to the OT characters because if the OT characters were maintained as the Ultimate Heroes they were in the OT there'd never be any new threats and never be a new for new leads. So the mere existence of new leads insults the OT characters.
Make the Force Awakens be about Jedi Trainee Rey and Republic Trooper Finn fighting for the New Republic and the film would bomb royally. Especially if Leia was the Chancellor, Luke the Supreme Jedi Grandmaster with a Council and Han some Fancy Pants Republic Admiral. The second we see them we'd be left thinking "Well wait, what's the point of any new characters when the old ones are still around? They don't need any replacing!" Then again, you use a picture of a delusional man so I know what your response will be.
|
|
|
Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 9, 2018 20:43:30 GMT
One note character archetypes are all that you do like! That's all that most of the new ST characters are! The OT characters are archetypes too, like Luke and Han and Obi-Wan. As for the above...any new conflict the ST could give us would've undone the ROTJ ending. Because ROTJ's ending was "It's done, this is the end". Same with "maintain the OT characters", they were written as too heroic and too good to EVER need help or replacing, so if you leave them that way then there's no need for anything new. Because as they were, the OT cast would've been able to deal with any new threats and never need any replacing.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 20:44:25 GMT
Damn, formersamhmd getting smacked around from pillar to post in this thread... Nah, they can't even be bothered to respond to the "Make the ST like the PT and it bombs" scenario because they know I'm right. It's why they keep dodging the point.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 20:45:59 GMT
The OT characters are archetypes too, like Luke and Han and Obi-Wan. As for the above...any new conflict the ST could give us would've undone the ROTJ ending. Because ROTJ's ending was "It's done, this is the end". Same with "maintain the OT characters", they were written as too heroic and too good to EVER need help or replacing, so if you leave them that way then there's no need for anything new. Because as they were, the OT cast would've been able to deal with any new threats and never need any replacing. Then again, you use a picture of a delusional man so I knew what your response would be. But yeah, Luke is the archetypal "Hero's Quest" protagonist, Han the archetypal scoundrel and Obi-Wan the archetypal Mentor. Yet somehow making Rey anything but a pathetic useless sidekick to Luke or Han is bad. Her showing ANY Agency or strength is bad. There is NO WAY to carry on from where ROTJ ended and do a story with new characters without someone being offended.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 20:54:51 GMT
You know what I love about Rey?
She's so powerful she made that Praetorian Guard's weapon disappear! And here I thought they jumped the shark with Leia's Mary Poppins moment, but wow, making something disintegrate into nothing is a trick that goes beyond space flight when it comes to destroying established lore.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 20:56:06 GMT
You know what I love about Rey? She's so powerful she made that Praetorian Guard's weapon disappear! And here I thought they jumped the shark with Leia's Mary Poppins moment, but wow, making something disintegrate into nothing is a trick that goes beyond space flight when it comes to destroying established lore. You mean like how Luke kicked a guy without his foot hitting the guys face?
|
|
|
Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 9, 2018 21:32:20 GMT
Then again, you use a picture of a delusional man so I knew what your response would be. But yeah, Luke is the archetypal "Hero's Quest" protagonist, Han the archetypal scoundrel and Obi-Wan the archetypal Mentor. Yet somehow making Rey anything but a pathetic useless sidekick to Luke or Han is bad. Her showing ANY Agency or strength is bad. There is NO WAY to carry on from where ROTJ ended and do a story with new characters without someone being offended. Yeah, you know how Saw Guerrera got delusional? By listening to your lying trolling all day long, everyday for weeks! It doesn't change the fact that what he says is true about you each and every time!! He's crazy like a fox that way! As opposed to you, who is actually crazy to the point of incurable stupidity.
|
|
|
Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 9, 2018 21:39:03 GMT
You know what I love about Rey? She's so powerful she made that Praetorian Guard's weapon disappear! And here I thought they jumped the shark with Leia's Mary Poppins moment, but wow, making something disintegrate into nothing is a trick that goes beyond space flight when it comes to destroying established lore. You mean like how Luke kicked a guy without his foot hitting the guys face? Straw man! That's called acting dummy. It happens in every action movie. You don't actually make contact when punching or kicking someone. You try to make it close enough where it looks like you did. Hamill needed to get slightly closer to make it look convincing in this case. But you can the same examples in every action movie made if you look for them. Straw man.
|
|