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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 9, 2018 22:20:49 GMT
New? No bullshit. The First Order is nothing more than the Empire reskinned, just like the resistance is just the Rebellion reskinned. That's why most of us were upset with episode 7 and 8. It's unoriginal. No-Win Scenario, thanks to the Prequels the audience wasn't going to accept stories of equal factions fighting (like the Republic vs the Separatists) or a Political story of rebuilding the New Republic. So their only real option was to go for nostalgia. ebuild faith in the Star Wars brand while moving beyond the OT period. Evidence?
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 22:33:14 GMT
No-Win Scenario, thanks to the Prequels the audience wasn't going to accept stories of equal factions fighting (like the Republic vs the Separatists) or a Political story of rebuilding the New Republic. So their only real option was to go for nostalgia. ebuild faith in the Star Wars brand while moving beyond the OT period. Evidence? They tried politics with the PT, panned from start to finish. Gave us stories of equal factions duking it out with the Clone Wars, derided as unbecoming of Star Wars. Kind of easy to see that they just wanted the OT's way back.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 22:34:25 GMT
Then again, you use a picture of a delusional man so I knew what your response would be. But yeah, Luke is the archetypal "Hero's Quest" protagonist, Han the archetypal scoundrel and Obi-Wan the archetypal Mentor. Yet somehow making Rey anything but a pathetic useless sidekick to Luke or Han is bad. Her showing ANY Agency or strength is bad. There is NO WAY to carry on from where ROTJ ended and do a story with new characters without someone being offended. Yeah, you know how Saw Guerrera got delusional? Stuck in the OT era instead of a Post-OT era?
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 9, 2018 22:49:51 GMT
Yeah, you know how Saw Guerrera got delusional? Stuck in the OT era instead of a Post-OT era? He let himself die. He had a vision of the sequel trilogy. And he was sick of listening to your lies. Plain and simple.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 9, 2018 22:50:55 GMT
They tried politics with the PT, panned from start to finish. Gave us stories of equal factions duking it out with the Clone Wars, derided as unbecoming of Star Wars. Kind of easy to see that they just wanted the OT's way back.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 9, 2018 22:53:47 GMT
They tried politics with the PT, panned from start to finish. Gave us stories of equal factions duking it out with the Clone Wars, derided as unbecoming of Star Wars. Kind of easy to see that they just wanted the OT's way back. That's not what I remembered. I remember the prequels being panned for the following reason: 1. Bad acting, especially on Hayden Christensen performance. 2. The bad writing. The dialogue especially. 3. Over use of cg/bad cg. I don't remember anyone complaining about the films politics or whatever nonsense you're spewing.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 23:06:27 GMT
Stuck in the OT era instead of a Post-OT era? He let himself die. He had a vision of the sequel trilogy. Yeah, and when he saw it wasn't all about the OT characters and only the OT characters with any new characters not being useless sidekicks just there be mocked or killed off to preserve the OT characters...he couldn't handle it.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 23:08:47 GMT
They tried politics with the PT, panned from start to finish. Gave us stories of equal factions duking it out with the Clone Wars, derided as unbecoming of Star Wars. Kind of easy to see that they just wanted the OT's way back. That's not what I remembered. I do, the political stuff from Phantom Menace was being mocked for YEARS. Part of the overall problem. Said writing included the Political stuff. The way they showed a Huge powerful Jedi Order was derided, the alien enemies were derided, the clone army fighting was derided...and thanks to that, any hope that the ST would start off with some Grand New Republic and some Grand new Jedi Order all died.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 10, 2018 0:13:32 GMT
The Jedi order was thinned out because of their involvement in the Clone Wars.
The Alien enemies, aka the CIS, we're wiped out because palpatine, Darth Sidous, had no more use of them. They were a means to an end.
I don't remember what happened with the clones. I've always assume that they became the Storm Troopers.
Not sure what was wrong with all of this.
How?
The New republic could have easily been rebuilding after the defeat of the Empire.
Luke could have had a Jedi order that was slowly being built.
This trilogy could still have a new set of characters and they have plenty of room to introduce a new type of threat.
Remaking the original trilogy was a cop out.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 10, 2018 0:16:53 GMT
You mean like how Luke kicked a guy without his foot hitting the guys face? Straw man! That's called acting dummy. It happens in every action movie. You don't actually make contact when punching or kicking someone. You try to make it close enough where it looks like you did. Hamill needed to get slightly closer to make it look convincing in this case. But you can the same examples in every action movie made if you look for them. Straw man. That was a Force Kick!!!1
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 10, 2018 0:26:53 GMT
The Jedi order was thinned out because of their involvement in the Clone Wars. The Alien enemies, aka the CIS, we're wiped out because palpatine, Darth Sidous, had no more use of them. They were a means to an end. I don't remember what happened with the clones. I've always assume that they became the Storm Troopers. Not sure what was wrong with all of this. What I'm saying is that the audience hated that the Jedi were portrayed as this big order with lots of Jedi running around, because it screwed with how they imagined the Jedi to be from the OT. They hated the Aliens and the idea of the Republic fighting Separatists, and they hated how they used Robot Troopers. They had their own ideas about the Clone Wars and the PT didn't follow THEIR headcanon and that was unforgivable. They also hated the idea of the Clonetroopers too, because they figured the clone Wars meant someone clones armies of Jedi Knights or some stupidity and the PT wasn't the stupidity they'd imagined. A political storyline, that's toxic to Star Wars. And if the Republic isn't big and strong whats' the point of having it? If he couldn't provide a strong enough Jedi Order to be meaningful, there's no point to them. And if Rey turned out to be his "prized pupil" or whatever then that would just be another "Mary Sue" accusation at her feet. Girl just can't win. Not with the OT characters around, it couldn't. Keep the OT characters they way they were, and there wouldn't BE any new threats because, as they OT made them into epic heroes of titanic proportions, any new threats would be nipped in the bud before they became real threats. And if there's no new threats then there's no need for sequels and especially no need for new characters. The OT cast were not designed to be replaced or to interact with replacement characters. They exist to be the ONLY heroes around. Any new heroes introduced, it's automatically an insult to the OT cast because their very existence means the OT cast aren't what they were. They didn't have much to work with, knowing how the OT crowd were upset sequels were being made to begin with.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 10, 2018 1:08:53 GMT
The Jedi order was thinned out because of their involvement in the Clone Wars. The Alien enemies, aka the CIS, we're wiped out because palpatine, Darth Sidous, had no more use of them. They were a means to an end. I don't remember what happened with the clones. I've always assume that they became the Storm Troopers. Not sure what was wrong with all of this. What I'm saying is that the audience hated that the Jedi were portrayed as this big order with lots of Jedi running around, because it screwed with how they imagined the Jedi to be from the OT. They hated the Aliens and the idea of the Republic fighting Separatists, and they hated how they used Robot Troopers. They had their own ideas about the Clone Wars and the PT didn't follow THEIR headcanon and that was unforgivable. They also hated the idea of the Clonetroopers too, because they figured the clone Wars meant someone clones armies of Jedi Knights or some stupidity and the PT wasn't the stupidity they'd imagined. A political storyline, that's toxic to Star Wars. And if the Republic isn't big and strong whats' the point of having it? If he couldn't provide a strong enough Jedi Order to be meaningful, there's no point to them. And if Rey turned out to be his "prized pupil" or whatever then that would just be another "Mary Sue" accusation at her feet. Girl just can't win. Not with the OT characters around, it couldn't. Keep the OT characters they way they were, and there wouldn't BE any new threats because, as they OT made them into epic heroes of titanic proportions, any new threats would be nipped in the bud before they became real threats. And if there's no new threats then there's no need for sequels and especially no need for new characters. The OT cast were not designed to be replaced or to interact with replacement characters. They exist to be the ONLY heroes around. Any new heroes introduced, it's automatically an insult to the OT cast because their very existence means the OT cast aren't what they were. They didn't have much to work with, knowing how the OT crowd were upset sequels were being made to begin with. No they did. Lucas even offered his original story for episode 7-9 and they turned it down. The OT crowd was a small vocal group and even then they would have shown up to pay to watch Star Wars. Hell they've been paying for the current Disney films anyway. And besides it's pretty obvious that Disney wanted to remake the original trilogy. So even if they felt like "didn't have much to work with", they could have just been honest about it since the beginning. Now the fanbase is split and the movie and merchandise isn't selling as well as it should.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 10, 2018 1:12:05 GMT
No they did. Lucas even offered his original story for episode 7-9 and they turned it down. Seeing how he did the Prequels, I don't blame them. No, they're the ones behind petitions to have the ST rendered noncanon. Have been doing so before TFA came out. They came to that decision because they didn't have many other options. The fanbase was already split the second these movies were announced. Especially considering how there were many who didn't WANT a continuation in the first place. Especially one about new characters.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 10, 2018 10:35:55 GMT
No they did. Lucas even offered his original story for episode 7-9 and they turned it down. Seeing how he did the Prequels, I don't blame them. No, they're the ones behind petitions to have the ST rendered noncanon. Have been doing so before TFA came out. They came to that decision because they didn't have many other options. The fanbase was already split the second these movies were announced. Especially considering how there were many who didn't WANT a continuation in the first place. Especially one about new characters. That is such horseshit. They didn't have any other options? Seriously? They had plenty. But you know what? I'm done with this. Your hypocrisy is outstanding and as far as I'm concerned you forfeit any right to call Fox or DC lazy or unoriginal, especially since you are defending Disney for doing the exact same thing.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 10, 2018 11:32:36 GMT
Seeing how he did the Prequels, I don't blame them. No, they're the ones behind petitions to have the ST rendered noncanon. Have been doing so before TFA came out. They came to that decision because they didn't have many other options. The fanbase was already split the second these movies were announced. Especially considering how there were many who didn't WANT a continuation in the first place. Especially one about new characters. That is such horseshit. They didn't have any other options? Seriously? They had plenty. Set the story 100 years after ROTJ, you piss off the OT fans who waited 30 years to see the OT cast again. Set the story 30 years after ROTJ, like they did? OT fans are wondering why the OT characters couldn't handle the new enemy on their own, because in the OT they were unbeatable heroes of the Galaxy, and wonder why the film is pushing new characters on them when they aren't needed because the OT characters are enough on their own. Have the Republic be a strong Government fighting some enemy, you just have the Prequels and the audience is already to hate the new story due to that. Have a New Jedi Order loaded with students and we're left wondering why we're wasting our time on Rey when Super Jedi Luke is there to do everything. Unless she's written as his bumbling sidekick. You see where I'm going with this?
Disney was dealt a real s*** hand with how they were to proceed with Star Wars, while DC and FOX had great hands they kept screwing up.
Fox could've given us a Starjammers movie to beat GOTG to the punch but did NOTHING. DC had DECADES to give us more than Superman or Batman and did NOTHING until the MCU forced their hand.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 10, 2018 12:48:57 GMT
No they did. Lucas even offered his original story for episode 7-9 and they turned it down. Seeing how he did the Prequels, I don't blame them. No, they're the ones behind petitions to have the ST rendered noncanon. Have been doing so before TFA came out. They came to that decision because they didn't have many other options. The fanbase was already split the second these movies were announced. Especially considering how there were many who didn't WANT a continuation in the first place. Especially one about new characters. No such divisions in the fanbase ever existed. No OT fans ever held such views. No such claim has ever been made on a fanbase website or forum. If what you claim were true then TFA would've never made 2 billion dollars at the box office! It's just another one of your slanderous...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 13:01:19 GMT
What exactly is it about her character that you like? I'm honestly just curious. Ms Ridley is a charismatic and likeable person, and that comes through in the character of Rey, IMO. I like how they initially set the character up. You get to see her life, and learn things about her - how independent she is, a little of her worries about her life, how she's not afraid to stand up for herself. It amused me the way they played her off Finn - no she didn't need his protection, didn't need him literally trying to lead her around the place by the hand. That whole thing played out as if he was in an action movie from the 1970s and she was in a movie from today, where the women aren't useless objects for the men to look after. Which is clever and amusing to me. I like that she's smart and multi-talented. It doesn't hurt that I think she's hot as hell, either. I do wish they hadn't made her quite so much the Mary Sue. It's a small moment, but having her fix the Falcon when Han couldn't was a jarring misstep. And she uses the Force too easily. IMO they should have avoided that, or at least lampshaded it and made it part of the mystery of her origins. But those are relatively small complaints to me. Overall I just think she's a cool character.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 10, 2018 13:11:06 GMT
That is such horseshit. They didn't have any other options? Seriously? They had plenty. Set the story 100 years after ROTJ, you piss off the OT fans who waited 30 years to see the OT cast again. Set the story 30 years after ROTJ, like they did? OT fans are wondering why the OT characters couldn't handle the new enemy on their own, because in the OT they were unbeatable heroes of the Galaxy, and wonder why the film is pushing new characters on them when they aren't needed because the OT characters are enough on their own. Have the Republic be a strong Government fighting some enemy, you just have the Prequels and the audience is already to hate the new story due to that. Have a New Jedi Order loaded with students and we're left wondering why we're wasting our time on Rey when Super Jedi Luke is there to do everything. Unless she's written as his bumbling sidekick. You see where I'm going with this?
Disney was dealt a real s*** hand with how they were to proceed with Star Wars, while DC and FOX had great hands they kept screwing up.
Fox could've given us a Starjammers movie to beat GOTG to the punch but did NOTHING. DC had DECADES to give us more than Superman or Batman and did NOTHING until the MCU forced their hand.
Nope! 2 billion dollars at the box office by TFA proves that all OT fans wanted this movie. All OT fans had no problem with the new characters since those characters dominated the trailers and promos. OT fans were perfectly okay with the new characters and would've loved sharing the spotlight. Disney was dealt a great hand! All they had to do was complement the OT characters and ST characters with each other. But as we see Disney screwed up a great hand by removing the top protagonist from TFA and butchering his portrayal in TLJ. They partly butchered Han and Chewbacca by making them look inept handling their own ship. Then contrasting Rey against them by making her seem like a star pilot/ship gunner diety - and she only flew the Falcon 3 times in 2 films! Disney was dealt a great hand, and they're screwing it up in every way imaginable. Your take on the entire thing is the biggest of...
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 10, 2018 13:30:23 GMT
Nope! 2 billion dollars at the box office by TFA proves that The movie attracted a new generation of fans to make up for the angry OT fans who were pissed there were new movies. Up til they realized they were going to be leads and no useless sidekicks to the OT cast. They OT cast had to come back to appease the OT fans, even at their age. And the 30 years between meant that there were 30 years of OT fans imagining how the Galaxy would've turned out and there was no way Disney could match up to their headcanon fantasies. Not possible. The OT characters weren't written as characters meant to be replaced, they were written as epic heroes who didn't need help or the possibility of replacement. Write them the way they were in the OT and they'd have nipped the First Order in the bud and thus the ST would have no reason to exist. Nor would there be a purpose to the existence of the ST characters, since there's no need for them when the OT cast were available. So yeah, Luke the Super-Jedi was expected and fans were PO'ed he wasn't the lead.
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Post by ryboto on Apr 10, 2018 13:45:25 GMT
Nope! 2 billion dollars at the box office by TFA proves that The movie attracted a new generation of fans to make up for the angry OT fans who were pissed there were new movies. Up til they realized they were going to be leads and no useless sidekicks to the OT cast. They OT cast had to come back to appease the OT fans, even at their age. And the 30 years between meant that there were 30 years of OT fans imagining how the Galaxy would've turned out and there was no way Disney could match up to their headcanon fantasies. Not possible. The OT characters weren't written as characters meant to be replaced, they were written as epic heroes who didn't need help or the possibility of replacement. Write them the way they were in the OT and they'd have nipped the First Order in the bud and thus the ST would have no reason to exist. Nor would there be a purpose to the existence of the ST characters, since there's no need for them when the OT cast were available. So yeah, Luke the Super-Jedi was expected and fans were PO'ed he wasn't the lead. No, he is right, and you are wrong and creating an argument with no basis in our reality. Keep ramblin!
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