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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2018 18:23:55 GMT
1. Rogue One followed up on a nostalgia-heavy TFA. I have no doubt it rode TFA's coattails to box office success. Not to mention, the movie took place in between the PT and OT, which is, in itself, nostalgic for fans. 2. Let's see what happens as the saga progresses and they have to move fans to unfamiliar territory after the giant leg sweep that was TLJ. 2. But that's the thing. Will they really ever move into unfamiliar territory? Let's say we get a trilogy that takes place 5,000 years before the OT. Does anyone really expect the overall look, feel and conflict to be significantly different? OT characters and time period or not, I think most of these Star Wars films will have a basic formula that will make them entertaining to general audiences, like Marvel. You may be right about that. Initially I had assumed there would be a new trilogy that would deal with all-new characters with Rey and Kylo in the backdrop like the OT characters have been in this trilogy, but with everything Ridley has said and some of the rumors we've heard about what the next trilogy is actually going to be about, maybe we'll get lucky and they'll go back in time before the PT. That could actually get me to a theater again. But if it's a story about what happens in the galaxy thirty years after Ep. IX, then I'm not interested.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2018 18:27:13 GMT
But what we haven't seen is new characters succeeding on their own. A big part of why fans were interested in Rey and Finn is because they were hoping they were related to familiar characters. Hmm. I think that was big, but fans had greater interest in Rey and Finn themselves than who they were related to, especially after watching TFA. If Disney gave us brand new characters completed unrelated to the PT, OT and ST, I think they would succeed with fans as long as we liked them. Perhaps. After TLJ, I personally don't think I could get into any story that takes place in the future unless they give the job to someone I like, such as Nolan.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 11, 2018 18:29:39 GMT
Rogue One did not follow the Disneyfication mold that the sequel trilogy has. That's why it had slightly more success as an anthology film than Disney expected. I'm not sold that they are going to do that with other Disney SW movies. They're definitely not going to do things that way with episode IX. We will have to wait and see how they handle "Solo". i hear ya. If Disney relying too much on OT characters bites them in the ass, they'll eventually make some changes. Sooner or later, we'll move away from that stuff. We've already seen that new SW characters can succeed. The problem is the resentment at the ST characters for taking over from the OT characters. That's something that's REALLY pissed off a lot of OT fans. Rogue One got away with new characters because we all knew they were going to get killed in the end.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 11, 2018 18:39:32 GMT
i hear ya. If Disney relying too much on OT characters bites them in the ass, they'll eventually make some changes. Sooner or later, we'll move away from that stuff. We've already seen that new SW characters can succeed. The problem is the resentment at the ST characters for taking over from the OT characters. That's something that's REALLY pissed off a lot of OT fans. Rogue One got away with new characters because we all knew they were going to get killed in the end. The problem is you're a spamming idiot who just parrots a false narrative.
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Post by audiosane on Apr 11, 2018 23:13:10 GMT
2. But that's the thing. Will they really ever move into unfamiliar territory? Let's say we get a trilogy that takes place 5,000 years before the OT. Does anyone really expect the overall look, feel and conflict to be significantly different? OT characters and time period or not, I think most of these Star Wars films will have a basic formula that will make them entertaining to general audiences, like Marvel. You may be right about that. Initially I had assumed there would be a new trilogy that would deal with all-new characters with Rey and Kylo in the backdrop like the OT characters have been in this trilogy, but with everything Ridley has said and some of the rumors we've heard about what the next trilogy is actually going to be about, maybe we'll get lucky and they'll go back in time before the PT. That could actually get me to a theater again. But if it's a story about what happens in the galaxy thirty years after Ep. IX, then I'm not interested. Even if they go back in time way before the PT, the finished product will probably still feel too much like what came before, particularly underdogs fighting against an evil dominant power.
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Post by audiosane on Apr 11, 2018 23:25:03 GMT
i hear ya. If Disney relying too much on OT characters bites them in the ass, they'll eventually make some changes. Sooner or later, we'll move away from that stuff. We've already seen that new SW characters can succeed. The problem is the resentment at the ST characters for taking over from the OT characters. That's something that's REALLY pissed off a lot of OT fans. Rogue One got away with new characters because we all knew they were going to get killed in the end. I don't think fans resented the ST character taking over from the OT characters. A lot of us wanted and expected to see the torch passed. I think a lot of people disliked how both generations were handled. Personally, I didn't like Rey being an overpowered Mary Sue, Finn being a bumbling runaway slave sidekick, Han being rehashed as a smuggler before dying stupidly, Leia being too bland and not doing much, Luke being out of character and Ackbar dying unceremoniously.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 11, 2018 23:34:51 GMT
The problem is the resentment at the ST characters for taking over from the OT characters. That's something that's REALLY pissed off a lot of OT fans. Rogue One got away with new characters because we all knew they were going to get killed in the end. I don't think fans resented the ST character taking over from the OT characters. A lot of us wanted and expected to see the torch passed. I just don't how that's possible without pissing someone off. This happened before with Star Trek, but they an easier time of it because the Original show didn't have a conclusive ending unlike the OT's "Happily Ever After" ending. And they wanted the new characters to take the forefront ASAP, hopefully within 1 movie.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 12, 2018 0:36:38 GMT
i hear ya. If Disney relying too much on OT characters bites them in the ass, they'll eventually make some changes. Sooner or later, we'll move away from that stuff. We've already seen that new SW characters can succeed. The problem is the resentment at the ST characters for taking over from the OT characters. That's something that's REALLY pissed off a lot of OT fans. Rogue One got away with new characters because we all knew they were going to get killed in the end. Nope. Wrong. That is totally wrong. Whether those characters died or not is not even a factor.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 12, 2018 0:42:32 GMT
I don't think fans resented the ST character taking over from the OT characters. A lot of us wanted and expected to see the torch passed. I just don't how that's possible without pissing someone off. This happened before with Star Trek, but they an easier time of it because the Original show didn't have a conclusive ending unlike the OT's "Happily Ever After" ending. And they wanted the new characters to take the forefront ASAP, hopefully within 1 movie. Have you noticed how every OT that you've talked to has said the same thing? OT fans expected the torch to be passed and the ST characters to take over? But you keep right on lying about it... LOL
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 12, 2018 0:44:56 GMT
The problem is the resentment at the ST characters for taking over from the OT characters. That's something that's REALLY pissed off a lot of OT fans. Rogue One got away with new characters because we all knew they were going to get killed in the end. Nope. Wrong. That is totally wrong. Whether those characters died or not is not even a factor. It very much IS a factor. That and Rogue One was set before the OT really started so no one could be upset at them for replacing Luke and co or threatening their prominence.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 12, 2018 0:46:28 GMT
I just don't how that's possible without pissing someone off. This happened before with Star Trek, but they an easier time of it because the Original show didn't have a conclusive ending unlike the OT's "Happily Ever After" ending. And they wanted the new characters to take the forefront ASAP, hopefully within 1 movie. Have you noticed how every OT that you've talked to has said the same thing? OT fans expected the torch to be passed and the ST characters to take over? They expected Luke to have a kid he passes things onto, or an incompetent bumbling sidekick he bestows the title of Jedi Knight to. Same with Han and Leia. Stupid no-skill people who could never ever equal them. What they didn't want were independent heroes who didn't start out as bumbling sidekicks. OR They expected the torch to be passed at the very last second of Episode 9, or episode 12. And for there to be no actual stories about the new characters on their own, the torch passing itself would just a tiny little scrap thrown to them at the very end while it's made clear the OT characters were the real heroes and leads of the new movies until the literal last second.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 12, 2018 1:19:32 GMT
Nope. Wrong. That is totally wrong. Whether those characters died or not is not even a factor. It very much IS a factor. That and Rogue One was set before the OT really started so no one could be upset at them for replacing Luke and co or threatening their prominence. Nope. Not true. Simply not true.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 12, 2018 1:21:09 GMT
Have you noticed how every OT that you've talked to has said the same thing? OT fans expected the torch to be passed and the ST characters to take over? They expected Luke to have a kid he passes things onto, or an incompetent bumbling sidekick he bestows the title of Jedi Knight to. Same with Han and Leia. Stupid no-skill people who could never ever equal them. What they didn't want were independent heroes who didn't start out as bumbling sidekicks. OR They expected the torch to be passed at the very last second of Episode 9, or episode 12. And for there to be no actual stories about the new characters on their own, the torch passing itself would just a tiny little scrap thrown to them at the very end while it's made clear the OT characters were the real heroes and leads of the new movies until the literal last second. Nope. If you actually talked to OT fans and actually listened... you would know that's not true.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 12, 2018 1:25:00 GMT
It very much IS a factor. That and Rogue One was set before the OT really started so no one could be upset at them for replacing Luke and co or threatening their prominence. Nope. Not true. Simply not true. We talked about this before, I brought up them surviving and you laughed that off too. It's clear that their "one and done" deal is what meant OT fans couldn't resent them. Plus they weren't replacement characters for the OT cast, so there was no innate bias against them as well. Unlike Rey and Finn, who had a LOT going against them right from Day One.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 12, 2018 1:27:17 GMT
They expected Luke to have a kid he passes things onto, or an incompetent bumbling sidekick he bestows the title of Jedi Knight to. Same with Han and Leia. Stupid no-skill people who could never ever equal them. What they didn't want were independent heroes who didn't start out as bumbling sidekicks. OR They expected the torch to be passed at the very last second of Episode 9, or episode 12. And for there to be no actual stories about the new characters on their own, the torch passing itself would just a tiny little scrap thrown to them at the very end while it's made clear the OT characters were the real heroes and leads of the new movies until the literal last second. Nope. If you actually talked to OT fans and actually listened... you would know that's not true. I know they want something pathetic like Rey being some runt of the litter Jedi trainee whose the least impressive of Luke's students, and Luke would always be portrayed as this all powerful Grandmaster that Rey could never be in the same weight class as. Finn would be Lando's son, no other character to speak of, and the First Order wouldn't exist because new conflicts screw up the ending of the OT. So there's really nothing for these new leads to do but be bumbling sidekicks or background furniture. So I've listened, and it sucks because the OT fans can't even own up and outright say that they want to make sure the ST leads are inferior to the OT leads in every way and they're against them every being considered on the same level. They'd rather Luke take his saber with him to the grave than hand it to Rey, so she's forced to tear it out of his dead hands because SHE'S all they have left now whether OT fans like it or not.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 12, 2018 2:04:09 GMT
Nope. If you actually talked to OT fans and actually listened... you would know that's not true. I know they want something pathetic like Rey being some runt of the litter Jedi trainee whose the least impressive of Luke's students, and Luke would always be portrayed as this all powerful Grandmaster that Rey could never be in the same weight class as. Finn would be Lando's son, no other character to speak of, and the First Order wouldn't exist because new conflicts screw up the ending of the OT. So there's really nothing for these new leads to do but be bumbling sidekicks or background furniture. So I've listened, and it sucks because the OT fans can't even own up and outright say that they want to make sure the ST leads are inferior to the OT leads in every way and they're against them every being considered on the same level. They'd rather Luke take his saber with him to the grave than hand it to Rey, so she's forced to tear it out of his dead hands because SHE'S all they have left now whether OT fans like it or not. Nope. Not true. And don't say that because OT fans don't want her to be a MarySue that that means they want her to be useless and pathetic. That's just not true and you've never established that.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 12, 2018 3:07:14 GMT
I know they want something pathetic like Rey being some runt of the litter Jedi trainee whose the least impressive of Luke's students, and Luke would always be portrayed as this all powerful Grandmaster that Rey could never be in the same weight class as. Finn would be Lando's son, no other character to speak of, and the First Order wouldn't exist because new conflicts screw up the ending of the OT. So there's really nothing for these new leads to do but be bumbling sidekicks or background furniture. So I've listened, and it sucks because the OT fans can't even own up and outright say that they want to make sure the ST leads are inferior to the OT leads in every way and they're against them every being considered on the same level. They'd rather Luke take his saber with him to the grave than hand it to Rey, so she's forced to tear it out of his dead hands because SHE'S all they have left now whether OT fans like it or not. And don't say that because OT fans don't want her to be a MarySue that that means they want her to be useless and pathetic. That's just not true and you've never established that. They sure are upset anytime she shows ANY competency at ANYTHING. No matter how little it is. ESPECIALLY if an OT characters is in the same scene as her. ST characters can't be allowed to excel at anything, especially if an OT character is in their presence. Showing an ST character is as good as an OT character in ANY WAY is a cardinal sin.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 12, 2018 4:41:49 GMT
And don't say that because OT fans don't want her to be a MarySue that that means they want her to be useless and pathetic. That's just not true and you've never established that. They sure are upset anytime she shows ANY competency at ANYTHING. No matter how little it is. ESPECIALLY if an OT characters is in the same scene as her. ST characters can't be allowed to excel at anything, especially if an OT character is in their presence. Showing an ST character is as good as an OT character in ANY WAY is a cardinal sin.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 12, 2018 11:44:37 GMT
They sure are upset anytime she shows ANY competency at ANYTHING. No matter how little it is. ESPECIALLY if an OT characters is in the same scene as her. ST characters can't be allowed to excel at anything, especially if an OT character is in their presence. Showing an ST character is as good as an OT character in ANY WAY is a cardinal sin. The one doing the lying and self-deception is you, EVERY time Rey or Finn showed they had ANY skill whatsoever it just got derided. Tell me, what skills are you actually OKAY with that they had?
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 12, 2018 12:10:48 GMT
The one doing the lying and self-deception is you, EVERY time Rey or Finn showed they had ANY skill whatsoever it just got derided. Tell me, what skills are you actually OKAY with that they had?
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