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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 12, 2018 5:45:39 GMT
What's the real reason some SW fans are pissed off about Snoke's death? Obviously because they never provided any backstory. But the other reason is that he was simply a better villain than Kylo.
I could elaborate why I feel that way (and eventually I will) but I'd like to hear everyone else's opinion.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 12, 2018 10:53:37 GMT
Well in my opinion it made him look like a pointless character.
We didn't get a lot of Information on him other than he was the leader of the first order and had force powers. Obviously he was the Emperor of the ST, but he didn't have the screen presence that Ian did.
And before anyone jumps in and goes "but we didn't get anything on the Emperor in Roth!" While that is true, the new movies had so many opportunities to be different than the OT. But once again Disney wanted to redo the original trilogy.
But we do have episode 9 coming, maybe snoke will return in some form.
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Post by ryboto on Apr 12, 2018 15:02:17 GMT
It made him pointless. It makes Kylo's motivations even less clear. It means we need even MORE exposition in the third movie to understand why Kylo is 'dark', and why/how he was tempted by Snoke to follow Vader. Like...that whole relationship is just nonsense to me. Had they made him Plageuis we'd have probably liked him more than the other new characters, so that's likely why they killed him. He can't be more interesting than Rey/Kylo/Finn/Poe.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2018 18:26:42 GMT
He should have been Plagueis.
But even putting that fanfic dream of mine aside, he needed to be someone we knew or heard about or could relate to the stories of the PT and the OT. He wasn't. That's the worst thing. Beyond that, he was the most interesting character to be introduced in the ST, he was a believable arch enemy (Kylo is not), he presented real challenges to overcome (Kylo does not, Rey already beat his ass once, so where's the tension in Ep IX coming from?) and what little we knew of his backstory made his future story revelations very enticing. His story even promised to be continually unraveled in the anthology films (like how they plan to keep coming back to Vader's castle on Mustafar and how Snoke's ring was formed from the obsidian there).
All that potential wasted so that Kylo and Rey could dry hump.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 18, 2018 15:14:08 GMT
He should have been Plagueis. But even putting that fanfic dream of mine aside, he needed to be someone we knew or heard about or could relate to the stories of the PT and the OT. He wasn't. That's the worst thing. Beyond that, he was the most interesting character to be introduced in the ST, he was a believable arch enemy (Kylo is not), he presented real challenges to overcome (Kylo does not, Rey already beat his ass once, so where's the tension in Ep IX coming from?) and what little we knew of his backstory made his future story revelations very enticing. His story even promised to be continually unraveled in the anthology films (like how they plan to keep coming back to Vader's castle on Mustafar and how Snoke's ring was formed from the obsidian there). All that potential wasted so that Kylo and Rey could dry hump. It's this. |
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 23, 2018 3:36:39 GMT
Because nerds wasted two years of their lives trying to decipher who this bland Sidious wannabe was, and when he got tossed aside like he deserved, ultimately proving to be nothing more than red-herring for the real and far more interesting main villain, butts got hurt.
That, and Star Wars fans have absolutely no idea what they want. One minute they're crying because this trilogy is too similar to the OT, and then when this movie takes a hard left turn by taking out the "big bad" in the middle chapter, it becomes full-on pacifier time. I seem to recall no one even liking this guy. Until he got chopped in half, that is. Oh, but where art thou intimidating villains? You know, like coughing robots, Japanese alien businessmen, and 80 year old Christopher Lees with their faces photoshopped onto stunt doubles. My pants soil in horror at the mere thought of those bad boys.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 7:56:59 GMT
Because nerds wasted two years of their lives trying to decipher who this bland Sidious wannabe was, and when he got tossed aside like he deserved, ultimately proving to be nothing more than red-herring for the real and far more interesting main villain, butts got hurt. That, and Star Wars fans have absolutely no idea what they want. One minute they're crying because this trilogy is too similar to the OT, and then when this movie takes a hard left turn by taking out the "big bad" in the middle chapter, it becomes full-on pacifier time. I seem to recall no one even liking this guy. Until he got chopped in half, that is. Oh, but where art thou intimidating villains? You know, like coughing robots, Japanese alien businessmen, and 80 year old Christopher Lees with their faces photoshopped onto stunt doubles. My pants soil in horror at the mere thought of those bad boys. Yousa mean da character dat acts just like whiny, temper tantrum, Dark Anakin of da prequels?... dat everybody hated and said was a terrible character?... but is so much more interesting & complex in this'n trilogy cuz he dresses up in a fanfic Vader costume?... and has a cooler lightsaber?... and hair like a young David Cassidy?... Da same allegedly revolting character as Darkside Anakin of episodes 2 and 3 but with a different superficial look and now named Kylo?... Yousen mean that guy?!? LOL! Just shows how gullible yousa Disney trilogy fans are for skins and packaging. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Apr 23, 2018 14:15:27 GMT
Because nerds wasted two years of their lives trying to decipher who this bland Sidious wannabe was, and when he got tossed aside like he deserved, ultimately proving to be nothing more than red-herring for the real and far more interesting main villain, butts got hurt. you should stop sniffing that raccon turd, pal, it makes you confuse stoned ramblings for arguments.
So, it's the fanbase's fault that they creatively fleshed out a "bland Sidious wannabe"-rehash who serves as the supreme villain?
And lol, who is the "real and far more interesting main villain"? Phasma? Yo Mama Hux? Or My-Daddies-did -not-love-me quivering-lips Kylo, who got his ass handed to him by a untrained rookie-girl, and who erupts in countless hysterial hissy fits like a 8-year old, thereby making the dumbest leader decisions on a regular basis?
....But admitedly, oh those quivering Kylo lips, angsty eyes paired with that manly, shirtless body featuring these revealingly sensitive nipples - best Young Adult bad boy ever!!! But that stuff belongs into Twilight & Co not Star Wars....
Your argument is poorly though through. You expect a fandom of millions and of generations to all "want" the same? How naive are you?
Anecdotal fallacy paired with personal incredulity-delusions, that's exactly why Paplo and Ryan Johnson made those "Your Snoke theory sucks" pics, right?
Also, "liking" is no requirement for speculation.
enter uniformed prequel-bashing thereby self-soiling yourself with a poop joke. This makes the raccon-turd circle complete.
Those are secondary villains who served the bad guy - the one who won in the end by corrupting and killing nearly all of the good guys (and his secodary villains). Apart from that, even the secondary PT villains are more of a menace than Hux, Kylo Ben or Phasma combined.
- Maul was a brutal killer until he was cut in half (and even more brutal after that in the CW show). - Dooku sliced Anakin & Obi into pieces before he was maimed and decapitated; Jango shot Jedi before being decaptated. - Even the "coughing robot" (too subtle a foreshaddowing for you to realize it was an organic being in a cyborg-suit like Vader) killed Jedi.
Not everybody craves angsty YA-bad boys with sensitive nipples. Maybe you should go home and watch moooooar Maaarvel, meeeeh!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 16:14:21 GMT
Because nerds wasted two years of their lives trying to decipher who this bland Sidious wannabe was, and when he got tossed aside like he deserved, ultimately proving to be nothing more than red-herring for the real and far more interesting main villain, butts got hurt. That, and Star Wars fans have absolutely no idea what they want. One minute they're crying because this trilogy is too similar to the OT, and then when this movie takes a hard left turn by taking out the "big bad" in the middle chapter, it becomes full-on pacifier time. I seem to recall no one even liking this guy. Until he got chopped in half, that is. Oh, but where art thou intimidating villains? You know, like coughing robots, Japanese alien businessmen, and 80 year old Christopher Lees with their faces photoshopped onto stunt doubles. My pants soil in horror at the mere thought of those bad boys. I would like to first point out that you contradict your argument by saying about Snoke "no one even liking this guy". But you criticize people "for wasting 2 years of their life" having an interest in his identity and unknown backstory. But I'll pretend that didn't just happen. It was the very creator of the Snoke character that created that interest from fans. JJ Abrams decided to try to make Snoke have more appeal than a monotone, giant hologram. So he encouraged onscreen desire to know Snoke's backstory with dialogue that only someone very close to the events of the entire canon of the previous episodic films would know. He didn't stop there. He continued to stoke this desire further by implying that he may have previously had face-to-face encounters with Luke. He teased at how he "discovered" Kylo. And Abrams teased at a secret organization that Snoke created and put Kylo in charge of. Abrams even fostered a desire for backstory on Snoke by giving him an ominous, unexplained head wound. And now you're blaming the audience by calling them "nerds who created their own misguided interests in a red herring". Interesting. That's a little like sending out invitations to a party you're having; and then blaming the guests when they show up to discover you never had any intentions of having a party. I wish I could say this writing travesty ends there, but it doesn't. While Abrams and Johnson were busy writing onscreen stuff that shows they got their writing credentials from writing Disney channel episodes; they hired real writers to create fragments of backstory in things like the visual dictionaries and character encyclopedias. But none of it ever played out or connects to what was onscreen. |
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 23, 2018 16:55:28 GMT
Because nerds wasted two years of their lives trying to decipher who this bland Sidious wannabe was, and when he got tossed aside like he deserved, ultimately proving to be nothing more than red-herring for the real and far more interesting main villain, butts got hurt. you should stop sniffing that raccon turd, pal, it makes you confuse stoned ramblings for arguments.
So, it's the fanbase's fault that they creatively fleshed out a "bland Sidious wannabe"-rehash who serves as the supreme villain?
And lol, who is the "real and far more interesting main villain"? Phasma? Yo Mama Hux? Or My-Daddies-did -not-love-me quivering-lips Kylo, who got his ass handed to him by a untrained rookie-girl, and who erupts in countless hysterial hissy fits like a 8-year old, thereby making the dumbest leader decisions on a regular basis?
....But admitedly, oh those quivering Kylo lips, angsty eyes paired with that manly, shirtless body featuring these revealingly sensitive nipples - best Young Adult bad boy ever!!! But that stuff belongs into Twilight & Co not Star Wars....
Your argument is poorly though through. You expect a fandom of millions and of generations to all "want" the same? How naive are you?
Anecdotal fallacy paired with personal incredulity-delusions, that's exactly why Paplo and Ryan Johnson made those "Your Snoke theory sucks" pics, right?
Also, "liking" is no requirement for speculation.
enter uniformed prequel-bashing thereby self-soiling yourself with a poop joke. This makes the raccon-turd circle complete.
Those are secondary villains who served the bad guy - the one who won in the end by corrupting and killing nearly all of the good guys (and his secodary villains). Apart from that, even the secondary PT villains are more of a menace than Hux, Kylo Ben or Phasma combined.
- Maul was a brutal killer until he was cut in half (and even more brutal after that in the CW show). - Dooku sliced Anakin & Obi into pieces before he was maimed and decapitated; Jango shot Jedi before being decaptated. - Even the "coughing robot" (too subtle a foreshaddowing for you to realize it was an organic being in a cyborg-suit like Vader) killed Jedi.
Not everybody craves angsty YA-bad boys with sensitive nipples. Maybe you should go home and watch moooooar Maaarvel, meeeeh!
You sure are fascinated by Adam Driver's nips and lips. If he can drive a straight(?) guy from down under this wild, imagine what he can do to a young woman raised in isolation on a desert planet. And are we really bitching about YA overtones in TLJ after Attack of the Clones? PT fans have the self-awareness of a turkey in a rainstorm. And I guess being similar to Darth Vader is only a storytelling device when ROTS does it. You forgot to educate me on how Count Dooku is also "foreshadowing" Vader, given he's a Jedi seduced by the dark side and tossed aside for someone younger. Ooooooh, now I'm soiling myself again, and it ain't poop this time. Also, why do you keep insinuating I'm a Marvel fanboy? Crikey, it's like you're deliberately mislabeling me or something. |
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 23, 2018 17:05:39 GMT
Because nerds wasted two years of their lives trying to decipher who this bland Sidious wannabe was, and when he got tossed aside like he deserved, ultimately proving to be nothing more than red-herring for the real and far more interesting main villain, butts got hurt. That, and Star Wars fans have absolutely no idea what they want. One minute they're crying because this trilogy is too similar to the OT, and then when this movie takes a hard left turn by taking out the "big bad" in the middle chapter, it becomes full-on pacifier time. I seem to recall no one even liking this guy. Until he got chopped in half, that is. Oh, but where art thou intimidating villains? You know, like coughing robots, Japanese alien businessmen, and 80 year old Christopher Lees with their faces photoshopped onto stunt doubles. My pants soil in horror at the mere thought of those bad boys. Yousa mean da character dat acts just like whiny, temper tantrum, Dark Anakin of da prequels?... dat everybody hated and said was a terrible character?... but is so much more interesting & complex in this'n trilogy cuz he dresses up in a fanfic Vader costume?... and has a cooler lightsaber?... and hair like a young David Cassidy?... Da same allegedly revolting character as Darkside Anakin of episodes 2 and 3 but with a different superficial look and now named Kylo?... Yousen mean that guy?!? LOL! Just shows how gullible yousa Disney trilogy fans are for skins and packaging. So your grand conspiracy is that people like Kylo Ren more than Anakin because he dresses like Darth Vader, when the latter is literally Darth Vader? You're a funnier character than we've ever had on this board! And liking a character for no reason but his appearance and cool lightsaber is certainly alien to a PT fan. I don't know if a lot of storytelling goes on in the lakes of Naboo, but characters being similar only with one being far better written and acted isn't exactly unheard of. Just look at those star-crossed lovers in good ol' Romeo and Juliet, compared to our beloved sand poet and his girlfriend with the child murder fetish. |
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 23, 2018 17:19:50 GMT
Because nerds wasted two years of their lives trying to decipher who this bland Sidious wannabe was, and when he got tossed aside like he deserved, ultimately proving to be nothing more than red-herring for the real and far more interesting main villain, butts got hurt. That, and Star Wars fans have absolutely no idea what they want. One minute they're crying because this trilogy is too similar to the OT, and then when this movie takes a hard left turn by taking out the "big bad" in the middle chapter, it becomes full-on pacifier time. I seem to recall no one even liking this guy. Until he got chopped in half, that is. Oh, but where art thou intimidating villains? You know, like coughing robots, Japanese alien businessmen, and 80 year old Christopher Lees with their faces photoshopped onto stunt doubles. My pants soil in horror at the mere thought of those bad boys. I would like to first point out that you contradict your argument by saying about Snoke "no one even liking this guy". But you criticize people "for wasting 2 years of their life" having an interest in his identity and unknown backstory. But I'll pretend that didn't just happen. It was the very creator of the Snoke character that created that interest from fans. JJ Abrams decided to try to make Snoke have more appeal than a monotone, giant hologram. So he encouraged onscreen desire to know Snoke's backstory with dialogue that only someone very close to the events of the entire canon of the previous episodic films would know. He didn't stop there. He continued to stoke this desire further by implying that he may have previously had face-to-face encounters with Luke. He teased at how he "discovered" Kylo. And Abrams teased at a secret organization that Snoke created and put Kylo in charge of. Abrams even fostered a desire for backstory on Snoke by giving him an ominous, unexplained head wound. And now you're blaming the audience by calling them "nerds who created their own misguided interests in a red herring". Interesting. That's a little like sending out invitations to a party you're having; and then blaming the guests when they show up to discover you never had any intentions of having a party. I wish I could say this writing travesty ends there, but it doesn't. While Abrams and Johnson were busy writing onscreen stuff that shows they got their writing credentials from writing Disney channel episodes; they hired real writers to create fragments of backstory in things like the visual dictionaries and character encyclopedias. But none of it ever played out or connects to what was onscreen. You're already doing a great job pretending that liking a character and fruitlessly analyzing them are the same thing, so why stop there? And yes, there's a difference. Just look at how thoroughly obsessed you guys are with the ST despite hating it with every fiber of your being. I don't remember Snoke's identity being breadcrumbs and puzzles, so much as information not volunteered. But you guys do know The Force Awakens upside down and better than I do. Must mean you like it. |
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 23, 2018 19:54:18 GMT
I would like to first point out that you contradict your argument by saying about Snoke "no one even liking this guy". But you criticize people "for wasting 2 years of their life" having an interest in his identity and unknown backstory. But I'll pretend that didn't just happen. It was the very creator of the Snoke character that created that interest from fans. JJ Abrams decided to try to make Snoke have more appeal than a monotone, giant hologram. So he encouraged onscreen desire to know Snoke's backstory with dialogue that only someone very close to the events of the entire canon of the previous episodic films would know. He didn't stop there. He continued to stoke this desire further by implying that he may have previously had face-to-face encounters with Luke. He teased at how he "discovered" Kylo. And Abrams teased at a secret organization that Snoke created and put Kylo in charge of. Abrams even fostered a desire for backstory on Snoke by giving him an ominous, unexplained head wound. And now you're blaming the audience by calling them "nerds who created their own misguided interests in a red herring". Interesting. That's a little like sending out invitations to a party you're having; and then blaming the guests when they show up to discover you never had any intentions of having a party. I wish I could say this writing travesty ends there, but it doesn't. While Abrams and Johnson were busy writing onscreen stuff that shows they got their writing credentials from writing Disney channel episodes; they hired real writers to create fragments of backstory in things like the visual dictionaries and character encyclopedias. But none of it ever played out or connects to what was onscreen. You're already doing a great job pretending that liking a character and fruitlessly analyzing them are the same thing, so why stop there? And yes, there's a difference. Just look at how thoroughly obsessed you guys are with the ST despite hating it with every fiber of your being. I don't remember Snoke's identity being breadcrumbs and puzzles, so much as information not volunteered. But you guys do know The Force Awakens upside down and better than I do. Must mean you like it. No it just means that some people actually pay a lot more attention to the story and characters than you do (obviously). It also means that some people have a passion for the genre beyond looking at the cool outfits and exploding ships. That's why some people (unlike you) can make intelligent, observant comments on the subject; rather than replying with empty attacks on people's character and a bunch of played out, cheesy prequel hate. What else you got? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 20:08:56 GMT
I would like to first point out that you contradict your argument by saying about Snoke "no one even liking this guy". But you criticize people "for wasting 2 years of their life" having an interest in his identity and unknown backstory. But I'll pretend that didn't just happen. It was the very creator of the Snoke character that created that interest from fans. JJ Abrams decided to try to make Snoke have more appeal than a monotone, giant hologram. So he encouraged onscreen desire to know Snoke's backstory with dialogue that only someone very close to the events of the entire canon of the previous episodic films would know. He didn't stop there. He continued to stoke this desire further by implying that he may have previously had face-to-face encounters with Luke. He teased at how he "discovered" Kylo. And Abrams teased at a secret organization that Snoke created and put Kylo in charge of. Abrams even fostered a desire for backstory on Snoke by giving him an ominous, unexplained head wound. And now you're blaming the audience by calling them "nerds who created their own misguided interests in a red herring". Interesting. That's a little like sending out invitations to a party you're having; and then blaming the guests when they show up to discover you never had any intentions of having a party. I wish I could say this writing travesty ends there, but it doesn't. While Abrams and Johnson were busy writing onscreen stuff that shows they got their writing credentials from writing Disney channel episodes; they hired real writers to create fragments of backstory in things like the visual dictionaries and character encyclopedias. But none of it ever played out or connects to what was onscreen. You're already doing a great job pretending that liking a character and fruitlessly analyzing them are the same thing, so why stop there? And yes, there's a difference. Just look at how thoroughly obsessed you guys are with the ST despite hating it with every fiber of your being. I don't remember Snoke's identity being breadcrumbs and puzzles, so much as information not volunteered. But you guys do know The Force Awakens upside down and better than I do. Must mean you like it. At least I do analyze what I'm watching which is more than I can say for you. As another poster implied, your entire foundation for critical thought on Star Wars is "if it's not the prequels it's quality storytelling, quality characters, it's entertaining". That's why your replies are limited to cheap personal insults and lame prequel bashing recycled from the Plinkett reviews. Since the majority of your posts are littered with PT hate, you must know an awful lot about being obsessed and thoroughly knowledgeable about something you hate. Sounds like you're speaking from experience. Now that we cleared up the fact that you're "the pot calling the kettle black" I'll be waiting for you to actually say something that disproves my previous comments. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 20:27:44 GMT
You're already doing a great job pretending that liking a character and fruitlessly analyzing them are the same thing, so why stop there? And yes, there's a difference. Just look at how thoroughly obsessed you guys are with the ST despite hating it with every fiber of your being. I don't remember Snoke's identity being breadcrumbs and puzzles, so much as information not volunteered. But you guys do know The Force Awakens upside down and better than I do. Must mean you like it. No it just means that some people actually pay a lot more attention to the story and characters than you do (obviously). It also means that some people have a passion for the genre beyond looking at the cool outfits and exploding ships. That's why some people (unlike you) can make intelligent, observant comments on the subject; rather than replying with empty attacks on people's character and a bunch of played out, cheesy prequel hate. What else you got? You can basically profile what kind of Star Wars fan and critic people like moviebuffbrad is. Their entire taste, their entire thought process on Star Wars comes from watching the Plinkett prequel reviews and religiously watching the Disney channel for the first 16 years of their life. Sadly, they think those two things makes them an expert on the subject. |
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 24, 2018 4:28:46 GMT
No it just means that some people actually pay a lot more attention to the story and characters than you do (obviously). It also means that some people have a passion for the genre beyond looking at the cool outfits and exploding ships. That's why some people (unlike you) can make intelligent, observant comments on the subject; rather than replying with empty attacks on people's character and a bunch of played out, cheesy prequel hate. What else you got? You can basically profile what kind of Star Wars fan and critic people like moviebuffbrad is. Their entire taste, their entire thought process on Star Wars comes from watching the Plinkett prequel reviews and religiously watching the Disney channel for the first 16 years of their life. Sadly, they think those two things makes them an expert on the subject. RedLetterMedia hated The Last Jedi, so if I'm some blind Plinkett zealot, I'm not really doing a good job of it. I also wrote an entire article defending certain aspects of the prequels, including retorts against points specifically from the Plinkett reviews. www.dorkly.com/post/82966/5-complaints-about-the-star-wars-prequels-that-should-retireLike I said, you don't need to like something to analyze and be knowledgeable about it. There's no pot and kettle here. I was being sarcastic when I said you must like the ST to reinforce my previous point that one must like Snoke in order to waste precious time deciphering his identity. As for my implied empty-headedness for not engaging in this particular mystery box: as I think I've made apparent, I did not care for the character. And clearly my disinterest in his backstory paid off because he didn't have one. As for personal attacks, me and Tristian take the piss out of each other. Let's not forget he called me a Marvel loving turd sniffer. Beyond that, who have I personally attacked? On the contrary, you and wax are the ones calling me unintelligent and profiling my character (once again proving, since I get the inkling you do not like me, that you don't have to like someone to start making up BS backstories for them. Disney channel until I was 16? Que?) |
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Post by ryboto on Apr 24, 2018 15:25:36 GMT
Like I said, you don't need to like something to analyze and be knowledgeable about it. There's no pot and kettle here. I was being sarcastic when I said you must like the ST to reinforce my previous point that one must like Snoke in order to waste precious time deciphering his identity. As for my implied empty-headedness for not engaging in this particular mystery box: as I think I've made apparent, I did not care for the character. And clearly my disinterest in his backstory paid off because he didn't have one. Oh, I hear you, I can't stand the mystery box, nor can I stand fan-theorying everything. Still, I think the point you're missing is that we didn't care for the alternative. Kylo is uninteresting and doesn't come off as threatening. He's a child and Rey is already better. Even though I didn't play into the trap that was the mystery boxness of TFA, I recognized Snoke could at least be an all powerful puppet master - someone that actually posed a threat to the protagonists. Now it's simply confusing that he was able to set all of this in motion, give Kylo enough motivation(what the fuck is his motivation!?!??!?!) to turn bad boy while training with Luke, and build the FO only to find he's just some old guy and anyone could have done that. Nah, He was more interesting than his horse faced emo apprentice. I detest both movies, but at least TFA left it open for Snoke to have purpose. Now that he has none, the ST makes even less sense. |
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 25, 2018 4:08:49 GMT
Like I said, you don't need to like something to analyze and be knowledgeable about it. There's no pot and kettle here. I was being sarcastic when I said you must like the ST to reinforce my previous point that one must like Snoke in order to waste precious time deciphering his identity. As for my implied empty-headedness for not engaging in this particular mystery box: as I think I've made apparent, I did not care for the character. And clearly my disinterest in his backstory paid off because he didn't have one. Oh, I hear you, I can't stand the mystery box, nor can I stand fan-theorying everything. Still, I think the point you're missing is that we didn't care for the alternative. Kylo is uninteresting and doesn't come off as threatening. He's a child and Rey is already better. Even though I didn't play into the trap that was the mystery boxness of TFA, I recognized Snoke could at least be an all powerful puppet master - someone that actually posed a threat to the protagonists. Now it's simply confusing that he was able to set all of this in motion, give Kylo enough motivation(what the fuck is his motivation!?!??!?!) to turn bad boy while training with Luke, and build the FO only to find he's just some old guy and anyone could have done that. Nah, He was more interesting than his horse faced emo apprentice. I detest both movies, but at least TFA left it open for Snoke to have purpose. Now that he has none, the ST makes even less sense. I would say Kylo is Rey's equal - when he was operating at full strength, him and Rey "tied" on the lightsaber grab, tying into TLJ's theme of balance and yin/yang. I can understand how even that could limit suspense, but Kylo does now have an entire army at his fingertips, and those Knights of Ren are bound to show up in IX as well. I'm expecting (and hoping for) both him and Rey to die, once again bringing balance to the force. Kylo reminds me of Joffrey from Game of Thrones - a spoiled sociopath with more power than he knows what to do with. Joffrey wasn't the wisest villain or greatest warrior either, but he still made a compelling antagonist for me. Where Anakin was turned into a monster, Kylo was born one. When faced with a chance of redemption, Kylo chose power - his ultimate motivation. He turned to Snoke not through Snoke's own cunning, but because Luke saw through him and he ran. If that doesn't interest you guys, then fair enough. But from where I'm sitting, the all powerful puppet master has already been done in this franchise. Now I'm enjoying this Elseworlds-like story where Darth Vader survived at the end of the ROTJ and chose to be Emperor. |
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Post by ryboto on Apr 25, 2018 12:08:41 GMT
Oh, I hear you, I can't stand the mystery box, nor can I stand fan-theorying everything. Still, I think the point you're missing is that we didn't care for the alternative. Kylo is uninteresting and doesn't come off as threatening. He's a child and Rey is already better. Even though I didn't play into the trap that was the mystery boxness of TFA, I recognized Snoke could at least be an all powerful puppet master - someone that actually posed a threat to the protagonists. Now it's simply confusing that he was able to set all of this in motion, give Kylo enough motivation(what the fuck is his motivation!?!??!?!) to turn bad boy while training with Luke, and build the FO only to find he's just some old guy and anyone could have done that. Nah, He was more interesting than his horse faced emo apprentice. I detest both movies, but at least TFA left it open for Snoke to have purpose. Now that he has none, the ST makes even less sense. I would say Kylo is Rey's equal - when he was operating at full strength, him and Rey "tied" on the lightsaber grab, tying into TLJ's theme of balance and yin/yang. I can understand how even that could limit suspense, but Kylo does now have an entire army at his fingertips, and those Knights of Ren are bound to show up in IX as well. I'm expecting (and hoping for) both him and Rey to die, once again bringing balance to the force. Kylo reminds me of Joffrey from Game of Thrones - a spoiled sociopath with more power than he knows what to do with. Joffrey wasn't the wisest villain or greatest warrior either, but he still made a compelling antagonist for me. Where Anakin was turned into a monster, Kylo was born one. When faced with a chance of redemption, Kylo chose power - his ultimate motivation. He turned to Snoke not through Snoke's own cunning, but because Luke saw through him and he ran. If that doesn't interest you guys, then fair enough. But from where I'm sitting, the all powerful puppet master has already been done in this franchise. Now I'm enjoying this Elseworlds-like story where Darth Vader survived at the end of the ROTJ and chose to be Emperor. True, it had been done. Still, that 'rehash' is more interesting than the alternative Disney propped up. They could have come up with something a little more original from the beginning. As it stands, they've created a derivative, uninteresting franchise. It's appealing to a much smaller audience than it once did. |
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 25, 2018 12:54:25 GMT
I would say Kylo is Rey's equal - when he was operating at full strength, him and Rey "tied" on the lightsaber grab, tying into TLJ's theme of balance and yin/yang. I can understand how even that could limit suspense, but Kylo does now have an entire army at his fingertips, and those Knights of Ren are bound to show up in IX as well. I'm expecting (and hoping for) both him and Rey to die, once again bringing balance to the force. Kylo reminds me of Joffrey from Game of Thrones - a spoiled sociopath with more power than he knows what to do with. Joffrey wasn't the wisest villain or greatest warrior either, but he still made a compelling antagonist for me. Where Anakin was turned into a monster, Kylo was born one. When faced with a chance of redemption, Kylo chose power - his ultimate motivation. He turned to Snoke not through Snoke's own cunning, but because Luke saw through him and he ran. If that doesn't interest you guys, then fair enough. But from where I'm sitting, the all powerful puppet master has already been done in this franchise. Now I'm enjoying this Elseworlds-like story where Darth Vader survived at the end of the ROTJ and chose to be Emperor. True, it had been done. Still, that 'rehash' is more interesting than the alternative Disney propped up. They could have come up with something a little more original from the beginning. As it stands, they've created a derivative, uninteresting franchise. It's appealing to a much smaller audience than it once did. For sure. I think it would have been interesting if the "First Order" was ruled by leaders of the Rebel Alliance, and Luke and co had merely traded one Empire for another. But as it stands, TLJ made be retroactively appreciate Snoke's character just for the rug pull. It's the first Star Wars movie made in the last 33 years where I didn't know exactly what was going to happen, or know exactly what will going forward. |
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