NormanClature
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"Anyone would think tin-pot-dictatorship is a bad thing???!?"
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Post by NormanClature on Jun 9, 2018 14:02:58 GMT
If you think the special effects used in the first 40 minutes of TWS are excessive, you must generally hate superhero movies? I bet you loved the last act of MoS? I don’t understand why you feel you need the sarcasm, pal. While it’s true that I don’t like this modern push towards non-stop explosions and special effects at the expense of character, dialogue, plot, imagery, etc., that has nothing to do with my [minor] criticism here. (It also has nothing to do with liking or disliking superhero movies in general. And, by the way, I strongly disliked the gloomy and frightfully boring MoS.) Think of the rather brilliant surprise office attack near the beginning of Three Days of the Condor (I think it’s better than anything else in the film). With Redford on board, Marvel was clearly aiming for a similar kind of thriller, ’70s paranoia style, which had small scale, practical action scenes. Much of Winter Soldier has worked that way so far, so that the occurrences of big modern CGI action seem out of place. Not sure why that should be so hard to understand. I watched the first half of Winter Soldier last night and will probably finish it tonight. I don't understand why you feel the need to be constantly f'ing touchy, "PAL," but I guess none of us is perfect. Oh, by the way, I wasn't being "sarcastic." The first couple of acts in TWS are less special effects heavy than virtually any modern superhero movie I can remember. My initial assumption was a reasonable one as was my assumption about MoS.
Why assume that I didn't understand what you meant? Criticizing the over use of special effects in a modern superhero movie is like complaining about a lack of coherent narrative in a porn movie. I'm sure "Deep Throat" would have benefited from being more like "Eyes Without a Face," but there's a chance it wouldn't have impressed all of it's target audience.
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Post by suarezthewitch on Jun 9, 2018 18:37:38 GMT
For me it is. [Yes]
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 19:36:36 GMT
Yes.
It's perhaps the only Marvel movie I would recommend to anybody without an asterisk that reads "if you like superhero movies." I think it stands apart from most of the other films as just a decent spy thriller.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jun 10, 2018 2:06:43 GMT
Watching Winter Soldier right now for the first time, on the many recommendations. Lots of good stuff so far—interesting opening, Robert Redford, and two lovely suspense sequences just in the first half hour or so (attack on Fury and attack in Cap’s house). Not sure why there’s something about Miss Johansson that just turns me off. But there’s a very pretty girl playing the neighbor/“Agent 13.” I think all of this would have actually been better without all the explosions and special effects; I would have kept it more small-scale, which seems to be the tone the writers and directors are going for. At the 40 min. mark. Looks like Sam Jackson just died. OK, continuing with the live log. The elevator suspense scene—excellent, though I think the buildup could have gone a bit more before the action. But it’s almost Hitchcockian in the use of the small space and the building tension. Expertly done.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jun 10, 2018 2:12:57 GMT
Very impressed by the “on the lam” stuff—fits the mood the movie’s going for (fits it a lot better than CGI explosions).
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Post by Nalkarj on Jun 10, 2018 4:35:07 GMT
So I finished Captain America: Winter Soldier, and I must confess to being somewhat disappointed. It’s a stand-alone, thank God, and what’s good is very good. Chris Evans plays Cap as a member of the Chris Reeve Superman/Gal Gadot Wonder Woman school of “aw shucks” superheroics, which is my favorite kind—put the focus on the character, not the action, pace one member here who shall remain nameless in this post. Three great suspense sequences: the car attack, the house attack, and the elevator attack. I wrote “attack” for each of them, but the importance is the build-up—“pure cinema,” as Hitchcock called it, at its best. The cast is uniformly good, and casting a wisely underplaying Redford as the “Establishment” villain is delightful irony. In fact, the first hour or so is a great tribute to ‘70s paranoia (I saw the Watergate Hotel when they were panning over Washington—had to be intentional). Though this old soul far prefers the ‘40s setting of the first Captain America, the setting works. So much in this movie’s first hour works—standing apart, as bartlesby accurately observed, from “the other films as just a decent spy thriller.” (And it felt more like a spy thriller than a superhero flick.) Which is why I was so disappointed. After the big battle with the Winter Soldier halfway through, it turns into a run-of-the-mill superhero flick, cumulating in another tiresome CGI blow-up climax (accurately predicted on here that I wouldn’t like it! ). It’s a very irritating trend, the cut-and-paste explosion scene, and it makes a hash of the brilliant paranoid tension of the film’s first half. Everything is solved by blowing stuff up—again, for the umpteenth time in a modern thriller. Oi. (I’m not necessarily opposed to action sequences’ ending a film—they provide a sense of catharsis that, say, Three Days of the Condor, this movie’s biggest inspiration, lacked— but I am unbelievably tired of huge CGI fights and explosions. A small scale fight, or just Rogers et al. tracking down the members of the conspiracy…) Not sure where I stand on this one. It’s a great half of movie—but, unfortunately, just that one half. EDIT: And it has nothing to do with the movie, but the girl who plays “Agent 13”/the neighbor is very pretty, in that girl-next-door kind of way (which I like). OK, random comments on pulchritude over.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 4:56:12 GMT
So I finished Captain America: Winter Soldier, and I must confess to being somewhat disappointed. It’s a stand-alone, thank God, and what’s good is very good. Chris Evans plays Cap as a member of the Chris Reeve Superman/Gal Gadot Wonder Woman school of “aw shucks” superheroics, which is my favorite kind—put the focus on the character, not the action, pace one member here who shall remain nameless in this post. Three great suspense sequences: the car attack, the house attack, and the elevator attack. I wrote “attack” for each of them, but the importance is the build-up—“pure cinema,” as Hitchcock called it, at its best. The cast is uniformly good, and casting a wisely underplaying Redford as the “Establishment” villain is delightful irony. In fact, the first hour or so is a great tribute to ‘70s paranoia (I saw the Watergate Hotel when they were panning over Washington—had to be intentional). Though this old soul far prefers the ‘40s setting of the first Captain America, the setting works. So much in this movie’s first hour works—standing apart, as bartlesby accurately observed, from “the other films as just a decent spy thriller.” (And it felt more like a spy thriller than a superhero flick.) Which is why I was so disappointed. After the big battle with the Winter Soldier halfway through, it turns into a run-of-the-mill superhero flick, cumulating in another tiresome CGI blow-up climax (accurately predicted on here that I wouldn’t like it! ). It’s a very irritating trend, the cut-and-paste explosion scene, and it makes a hash of the brilliant paranoid tension of the film’s first half. Everything is solved by blowing stuff up—again, for the umpteenth time in a modern thriller. Oi. (I’m not necessarily opposed to action sequences’ ending a film—they provide a sense of catharsis that, say, Three Days of the Condor, this movie’s biggest inspiration, lacked— but I am unbelievably tired of huge CGI fights and explosions. A small scale fight, or just Rogers et al. tracking down the members of the conspiracy…) Not sure where I stand on this one. It’s a great half of movie—but, unfortunately, just that one half. Understandable, the film tried to be grounded yet a big CGI action movie at the same time. Personally I feel it worked well but if you were expecting a straight 70s Spy Thriller then it can be slightly disappointing. Out of curiosity Salzmank, how many MCU movies have you seen and what are your opinions on all of them? As many of them are very CGI heavy rather than grounded.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jun 10, 2018 5:09:26 GMT
Understandable, the film tried to be grounded yet a big CGI action movie at the same time. Personally I feel it worked well but if you were expecting a straight 70s Spy Thriller then it can be slightly disappointing. Out of curiosity Salzmank, how many MCU movies have you seen and what are your opinions on all of them? As many of them are very CGI heavy rather than grounded.Granted. Note that I don’t necessarily hate CGI if it’s used well; in this particular story, I don’t think it works because of the tonal whiplash. Also, I didn’t go in expecting a straight ‘70s spy thriller (or anything), but that’s what the filmmakers gave me in the beginning—and then the tone changed abruptly, and we get the CGI big explosion stuff. And that first half was so good, too. I’ve seen… Iron Man 1, 2, and 3 Thor 1 and 2 Captain America 1 (and 2, now) The AvengersSpider-Man: Homecoming
OK, so they’ve got 19 films out in this series, and I’ve seen 9 of them—not even half, so it’s certainly fair to say that I haven’t seen a good sample size. (I take forever to watch series, as @forceghostackbar knows.) Of these, I loved Iron Man and still think it’s the only MCU flick I’ve seen that I’d put on my list of best superhero movies. It has a CGI/action-y climax, yes, but that climax is well-filmed and interesting, and the whole picture’s exceedingly well-acted. The script’s subtle and gentle parody of superhero conventions is also delightful. I thought that Captain America: The First Avenger was very entertaining, especially in the ‘40s atmosphere that director Joe Johnston can do so well and that I love. I didn’t like either Thor movie, Iron Man 2, or The Avengers (little focus on character or plot, all on blowing stuff up). Iron Man 3 was plot-centered, though (and returned to the gentle superhero trope-parodying of the first picture), and Spider-Man: Homecoming was sweet, goofy, and charming, like its hero (even if it doesn’t hold a candle to the first two Raimi Spidey flicks). Hope that gives something of an overview of my tastes, superhero-wise…
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 5:16:59 GMT
Understandable, the film tried to be grounded yet a big CGI action movie at the same time. Personally I feel it worked well but if you were expecting a straight 70s Spy Thriller then it can be slightly disappointing. Out of curiosity Salzmank, how many MCU movies have you seen and what are your opinions on all of them? As many of them are very CGI heavy rather than grounded.Granted. Note that I don’t necessarily hate CGI if it’s used well; in this particular story, I don’t think it works because of the tonal whiplash. Also, I didn’t go in expecting a straight ‘70s spy thriller (or anything), but that’s what the filmmakers gave me in the beginning—and then the tone changed abruptly, and we get the CGI big explosion stuff. And that first half was so good, too. I’ve seen… Iron Man 1, 2, and 3 Thor 1 and 2 Captain America 1 (and 2, now) The AvengersSpider-Man: Homecoming
OK, so they’ve got 19 films out in this series, and I’ve seen 9 of them—not even half, so it’s certainly fair to say that I haven’t seen a good sample size. (I take forever to watch series, as @forceghostackbar knows.) Of these, I loved Iron Man and still think it’s the only MCU flick I’ve seen that I’d put on my list of best superhero movies. It has a CGI/action-y climax, yes, but that climax is well-filmed and interesting, and the whole picture’s exceedingly well-acted. The script’s subtle and gentle parody of superhero conventions is also delightful. I thought that Captain America: The First Avenger was very entertaining, especially in the ‘40s atmosphere that director Joe Johnston can do so well and that I love. I didn’t like either Thor movie, Iron Man 2, or The Avengers (little focus on character or plot, all on blowing stuff up). Iron Man 3 was plot-centered, though (and returned to the gentle superhero trope-parodying of the first picture), and Spider-Man: Homecoming was sweet, goofy, and charming, like its hero (even if it doesn’t hold a candle to the first two Raimi Spidey flicks). Hope that gives something of an overview of my tastes, superhero-wise… Do you plan on watching Black Panther, Thor Ragnarok, Infinity War, Civil War or any of the Guardians of the Galaxy movies?
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Post by Nalkarj on Jun 10, 2018 5:20:52 GMT
Thor Ragnarok, yes, definitely. A friend recommended it to me, said it was his favorite Marvel movie, and I watched a hilarious clip (from something called Team Thor, I think?) with Hemsworth and Ruffalo playing off each other—so I think a funny Thor would work well.
Maybe Civil War. Not sure about the others, not yet. Still a lot I have yet to see—including, yes, the second two Star Wars movies!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 6:46:23 GMT
So I finished Captain America: Winter Soldier, and I must confess to being somewhat disappointed. It’s a stand-alone, thank God, and what’s good is very good. Chris Evans plays Cap as a member of the Chris Reeve Superman/Gal Gadot Wonder Woman school of “aw shucks” superheroics, which is my favorite kind—put the focus on the character, not the action, pace one member here who shall remain nameless in this post. Three great suspense sequences: the car attack, the house attack, and the elevator attack. I wrote “attack” for each of them, but the importance is the build-up—“pure cinema,” as Hitchcock called it, at its best. The cast is uniformly good, and casting a wisely underplaying Redford as the “Establishment” villain is delightful irony. In fact, the first hour or so is a great tribute to ‘70s paranoia (I saw the Watergate Hotel when they were panning over Washington—had to be intentional). Though this old soul far prefers the ‘40s setting of the first Captain America, the setting works. So much in this movie’s first hour works—standing apart, as bartlesby accurately observed, from “the other films as just a decent spy thriller.” (And it felt more like a spy thriller than a superhero flick.) Which is why I was so disappointed. After the big battle with the Winter Soldier halfway through, it turns into a run-of-the-mill superhero flick, cumulating in another tiresome CGI blow-up climax (accurately predicted on here that I wouldn’t like it! ). It’s a very irritating trend, the cut-and-paste explosion scene, and it makes a hash of the brilliant paranoid tension of the film’s first half. Everything is solved by blowing stuff up—again, for the umpteenth time in a modern thriller. Oi. (I’m not necessarily opposed to action sequences’ ending a film—they provide a sense of catharsis that, say, Three Days of the Condor, this movie’s biggest inspiration, lacked— but I am unbelievably tired of huge CGI fights and explosions. A small scale fight, or just Rogers et al. tracking down the members of the conspiracy…) Not sure where I stand on this one. It’s a great half of movie—but, unfortunately, just that one half. EDIT: And it has nothing to do with the movie, but the girl who plays “Agent 13”/the neighbor is very pretty, in that girl-next-door kind of way (which I like). OK, random comments on pulchritude over. I agree it does suffer a bit from tonal whiplash. I also got the Three Days of the Condor vibe (it's hard to miss) but it also plays like one of the sillier Bond flicks at the same time. Steve Rogers is simultaneously playing the straight-laced, in-over-his-head protagonist from other spy thrillers and... well, 007. At least in terms of his capability. It's both deadly serious and over-the-top laser beams from the sky at the same time. It's a "you got your peanut butter on my chocolate" sort of thing for me, personally, though that is overselling how well those two disparate elements blended. It felt more like a love letter to all the spy movies, which I enjoyed. Perhaps that was the point of the odd contrast? Was seeing pure and simple, punch Hitler in the face Captain America juxtaposed against the complex and confusing modern landscape weaved in thematically? Was it meant to be a mix-up by design? Maybe not. But it makes a handy excuse.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 17:51:05 GMT
Thor Ragnarok, yes, definitely. A friend recommended it to me, said it was his favorite Marvel movie, and I watched a hilarious clip (from something called Team Thor, I think?) with Hemsworth and Ruffalo playing off each other—so I think a funny Thor would work well. Maybe Civil War. Not sure about the others, not yet. Still a lot I have yet to see—including, yes, the second two Star Wars movies! Salzy, I highly reccomend you watch Cap 3: Civil War. It has a few massive battle scenes but they are refreshing light on the CGI... And the final climactic battle is all about personal stakes and is refreshingly character driven for a Marvel movie. Thor Ragnorockers is also excellent for different reasons. It's one of the rare movies where I'm okay with the CGI because there are LOTS of real sets as well and it actually does a suprisingly decent job at building an authentic fantasy world. It is all humor though, but it's a smarter, fantastically goofier humor that stands above the usual generic MCU style of humor. All this being said though, WATCH EMPIRE STRIKES BACK FIRST!!!!!!!!&@$
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flyerzzrul
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Post by flyerzzrul on Jun 10, 2018 20:55:08 GMT
It's at the top, along with:
Civil War Infinity War Black Panther Thor Ragnorak
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flyerzzrul
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Post by flyerzzrul on Jun 10, 2018 21:03:29 GMT
Age of Ultron is one of the worst MCU movies. It amazed me people have it on here. The Winter Soldier is the FAR better movie in pretty much every way. It is in my top three greatest super hero movies of all time: The Winter Soldier The Dark Knight Days of Future Past The action in The Winter Soldier is unmatched in the comic book genre. I recently did a Marv rewatch, and although AOU is at the bottom it isn't bad. Iron Man 2 is bad. I also had DOFP a top 5 SH movie, but X2 may be better.
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