Post by scabab on Nov 29, 2017 12:43:45 GMT
harpospoke
Completely untrue. As mentioned Iron Man starred in other cartoons, had his own cartoon, had his own cartoon movie, starred in games where his character was on the cover of popular Japanese arcade games and more. What did Ant-man have? Next to nothing.
Yeah there was a reason, Fox's reason was that they were already working on too many other superhero movies. It's not the reason you would suggest though. After all Spider-man went through the exact same thing.
Spider-man was originally going to be made by Cannon Films, it didn't happen, 21st Century was going to do it, it didn't happen, then it was going to be made by Carolco Pictures and James Cameron was going to do it, it didn't happen, finally Columbia Pictures got it and it happened.. That movie was planned since 1985 and it never happened.
After Superman 4, there were several projects. Superman 5, Superman Reborn, Superman Lives, Superman vs Batman and Superman Flyby, none of them got made.
That is just what happens.
Well actually Entertainment Weekly predicted that Iron Man was going to be more successful than The Dark Knight with well over $200 million.
Otherwise it's true that most didn't think it was going to be as successful as it was but I do recall most expecting the movie to make in the $300 million range worldwide, less than the X-men movies and about on par with what Fantastic Four, Batman Begins and Superman Returns. Of course that was all on Box Office Mojo and those forums are long gone.
It was definitely more successful than people expected but people expected it to do pretty well.
But again you're comparing what Fox did with the X-men series 10 movies in to what Marvel did with their first movie. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about now, why are Marvel not doing this now. Forget 2008, right now it's almost 2018, Marvel is a huge studio, they make some of the biggest movies that there is.
Where is their R rated movie now? Why are they not making a smaller budgeted R rated Hulk sequel or a $50 million budget R rated Blade movie?
Fox has two R rated movies now. DCEU has the R rated cut of Batman vs Superman. Sony is making an R rated Venom movie (a villain movie as well). So where is Marvels? They have 20 movies planned after Phase 3, will any of them be R rated?
No I know that they would lower the budget because it was R rated and R rated movies generally make less because they can reach a smaller audience but they still decided to make it anyway. They were fine with potentially having a movie that would make less than the previous ones. They didn't have to do that.
The Wolverine as a PG-13 made about three and a half times it's budget. They never needed to make a R rated sequel. They could have easily have just kept it a PG-13 and it would have still been a guaranteed success. They were not playing it safe when they took what was a traditionally PG-13 series which had all been successful and then made an R rated sequel which is something that I can recall only happening once before with Alien vs Predator Requiem which bombed.
Marvel simply haven't made an R rated movie with a lesser budget at all.
You can't really assume though. Filming only began a few months after Deadpool even came out and would have been written and planned out well before that.
"Insiders say the as-yet untitled Wolverine threequel, which James Mangold begins shooting in a month, was always designed as a movie that would receive an R from the ratings board once finished because of the level of violence (and likely language) in the script written by Michael Green."
That is all you can go on.
That wasn't risky. They just made another interstellar comedy movie that was pretty much Guardians of the Galaxy but with Thor and Hulk, all while following a movie that was considered the worst MCU movie of them all. With Spider-man Homecoming as well, all three of Marvel's movies this year have overdone the humour.
Superman died. Of course he came back but he did actually die, in just the second movie, which certainly wasn't playing it safe considered how people felt about it. Of course I'm not talking about the DC movies since 1978 because then I'd have to talk about the Marvel movies since 1998 and this was only ever about the MCU anyway.
Where's Marvels?
Again where's Marvels? DC has Suicide Squad and soon Black Adam and Gotham City Sirens, Fox has Deadpool, Sony has Venom and Marvel has? Nothing.
Cyborg in 2020. Announced with the initial DCEU Phase. Marvel didn't announce Black Panther until the very end of Phase 3.
DC doesn't do Norse Gods. They do Greek Gods and they were in Wonder Woman.
Green Lantern Corps in 2020. Also announced in the initial DCEU Phase.
In Suicide Squad where the main character was the even more minor, Deadshot.
Why not? Captain America is a soldier, he shoots people. There's plenty of movies involving soldiers that are R rated.
The first part is baseless and proven otherwise. There's also not much to explain, Wolverine was in the X-men movies, they were successful PG-13 movies so they did the same for the Wolverine movies. Then they changed it up.
And where is Marvels' lower budgeted R rated movie?
Nobody said that.
That is still true. Capt America was somewhat known but the GA were no more aware of Iron Man than they were of Ant-Man.
Completely untrue. As mentioned Iron Man starred in other cartoons, had his own cartoon, had his own cartoon movie, starred in games where his character was on the cover of popular Japanese arcade games and more. What did Ant-man have? Next to nothing.
There is a reason why no other studio was willing to make an Iron Man movie even though it would have been LESS risky for them. Marvel did it when the situation was FAR more risky.
Yeah there was a reason, Fox's reason was that they were already working on too many other superhero movies. It's not the reason you would suggest though. After all Spider-man went through the exact same thing.
Spider-man was originally going to be made by Cannon Films, it didn't happen, 21st Century was going to do it, it didn't happen, then it was going to be made by Carolco Pictures and James Cameron was going to do it, it didn't happen, finally Columbia Pictures got it and it happened.. That movie was planned since 1985 and it never happened.
After Superman 4, there were several projects. Superman 5, Superman Reborn, Superman Lives, Superman vs Batman and Superman Flyby, none of them got made.
That is just what happens.
So the idea that anyone was expecting over 200m for IM is just revisionist history...much less over 300m.
Well actually Entertainment Weekly predicted that Iron Man was going to be more successful than The Dark Knight with well over $200 million.
Otherwise it's true that most didn't think it was going to be as successful as it was but I do recall most expecting the movie to make in the $300 million range worldwide, less than the X-men movies and about on par with what Fantastic Four, Batman Begins and Superman Returns. Of course that was all on Box Office Mojo and those forums are long gone.
It was definitely more successful than people expected but people expected it to do pretty well.
It's exactly the point. Risk is about money. When you have more money there is less risk. Fox was obviously in a better financial situation than Marvel when they started making CMBs.
But again you're comparing what Fox did with the X-men series 10 movies in to what Marvel did with their first movie. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about now, why are Marvel not doing this now. Forget 2008, right now it's almost 2018, Marvel is a huge studio, they make some of the biggest movies that there is.
Where is their R rated movie now? Why are they not making a smaller budgeted R rated Hulk sequel or a $50 million budget R rated Blade movie?
Fox has two R rated movies now. DCEU has the R rated cut of Batman vs Superman. Sony is making an R rated Venom movie (a villain movie as well). So where is Marvels? They have 20 movies planned after Phase 3, will any of them be R rated?
You were all over the place here. You are actually trying to make it sound like Fox didn't lower the budgets for the R rated movies. (nudge...they did) You even acknowledged why they did it while denying it was a factor. That's pretty funny.
No I know that they would lower the budget because it was R rated and R rated movies generally make less because they can reach a smaller audience but they still decided to make it anyway. They were fine with potentially having a movie that would make less than the previous ones. They didn't have to do that.
The Wolverine as a PG-13 made about three and a half times it's budget. They never needed to make a R rated sequel. They could have easily have just kept it a PG-13 and it would have still been a guaranteed success. They were not playing it safe when they took what was a traditionally PG-13 series which had all been successful and then made an R rated sequel which is something that I can recall only happening once before with Alien vs Predator Requiem which bombed.
Marvel simply haven't made an R rated movie with a lesser budget at all.
Sure they did. It's just an incredible coincidence that they had made nothing but PG-13 X-men films for 17 years...including TWO Wolverine films...and then suddenly decided Wolverine needed to be rated R. What are the odds?
You can't really assume though. Filming only began a few months after Deadpool even came out and would have been written and planned out well before that.
"Insiders say the as-yet untitled Wolverine threequel, which James Mangold begins shooting in a month, was always designed as a movie that would receive an R from the ratings board once finished because of the level of violence (and likely language) in the script written by Michael Green."
That is all you can go on.
Marvel hired an indie director and made a risky movie. So that's really not the same thing at all.
That wasn't risky. They just made another interstellar comedy movie that was pretty much Guardians of the Galaxy but with Thor and Hulk, all while following a movie that was considered the worst MCU movie of them all. With Spider-man Homecoming as well, all three of Marvel's movies this year have overdone the humour.
5 movies and they haven't killed any of their heroes? What exactly are they waiting on? I see you don't want to count the DC movies going back to 1978....and we are still waiting for a DC hero to die. (Remember we can't count Superman or Batman since they came back)
Superman died. Of course he came back but he did actually die, in just the second movie, which certainly wasn't playing it safe considered how people felt about it. Of course I'm not talking about the DC movies since 1978 because then I'd have to talk about the Marvel movies since 1998 and this was only ever about the MCU anyway.
Oh how "brave" to release an R rated version on home video.
Where's Marvels?
A movie based on villains??
Again where's Marvels? DC has Suicide Squad and soon Black Adam and Gotham City Sirens, Fox has Deadpool, Sony has Venom and Marvel has? Nothing.
Where is the DC movie with a black cast?
Cyborg in 2020. Announced with the initial DCEU Phase. Marvel didn't announce Black Panther until the very end of Phase 3.
Where is the DC movie about Norse Gods?
DC doesn't do Norse Gods. They do Greek Gods and they were in Wonder Woman.
Where is the DC movie set in space?
Green Lantern Corps in 2020. Also announced in the initial DCEU Phase.
Where is the DC movie about a minor character like Ant-Man or Dr Strange?
In Suicide Squad where the main character was the even more minor, Deadshot.
Why would anyone need an R rated Iron Man or Cap movie? Silly claim.
Why not? Captain America is a soldier, he shoots people. There's plenty of movies involving soldiers that are R rated.
Wolverine works in R. And Fox was too scared to do it until Deadpool proved it was viable. You need to explain why those first 2 Wolverine movies were PG-13 if you are claiming Fox is so "brave".
The first part is baseless and proven otherwise. There's also not much to explain, Wolverine was in the X-men movies, they were successful PG-13 movies so they did the same for the Wolverine movies. Then they changed it up.
R rated movies have a lower budget so they aren't any more risky than a PG-13 movie.
And where is Marvels' lower budgeted R rated movie?
There is nothing inherently superior about an R rated movie.
Nobody said that.