Post by bluerisk on Jan 11, 2018 23:39:07 GMT
Björn anticipated every move of Ivar and it would be no surprise, to me anyway, if Ivar returns to his fleet only to see it burn.*
His older half-brother had the high ground, assumed correctly that Ivar would keep men back to protect the fleet, and, last but not least, a possible flank maneveur. To sum it it up: every single one of his counter meassures were spot on.
On the other hand Ivar did shit - pardon my French here. When they seemed to reach an agreement I was like: No Lagertha! Don't be that stupid to believe him...but instead of a trick or lie, like Cercei in GoT, there was nothing arranged or planned, and it seems (I can't imagine how he could still have something in his sleeve) that Ivar went entirely without plan into battle.
Maybe his only goal was to get rid of King Harald...but even this failed. And losing his Christian warrior was also not intended if I read his reaction corectly.
The warrior in his army - and they follwed him only because his tactics brought them victory - have witness how he failed King Harald and there brothers in arm since many men who died while fighting side a side with Harald had been Ivar's men. This and the defeat will make "his" men think who is actually Ragnar's heir: Björn or Ivar.
Ivar's army was raised by Björn (and his brothers) to avenge Ragnar. At that time he had no reputation that would make a single warrior follow him. And now he lost to Björn - soundly.
Björn is Ragnar's first bon, he led the Greath Heathen army to victory, and now he beat Ivar...and it was, again, a sound defeat, and unlike Ivar he was ringing his sword with the enemy. He bled with his men while Ivar was "listening" to the battle.
This is so untrue to the ideas of the Viking culture that his men won't follow him for much longer imho. You don't hide from and battle and listen to its outcome only in order to survive.
But why was Björn suddenly such a brilliant strategist (I like it and I always liked him albeit he got often a bad rap...and more so I love Lagertha. And she was bad ass: a true Queen), and Ivar is making now such poor decisions...
He might be a cynic and giving a damn about the gods and their culture, but his men do. And without his men he is nothing.
As it seems he hadn't made any plans, moves, or tactics before the battle actually began. Again: the only thing I can make out of this, is that he tried to get rid of King Harald...but Harald survived and he will certainly learn how Ivar was hiding, listening and holding back his men when the horn was blown. Even Astrid wanted to assist Harald (most likely to use this choas to switch the sides but the narrative of Harald will be more like: my loyal and brave wife).
This other Ragnar brother - I don't care how he is written or called - was so out-matched...all he could do was run. And it was so well prepared that I think that Lagertha and Björn are the ones who have still something in their sleeves. A small troop of scouts might be enough to set the fleet aflame, and the entire amry of Harald and Ivar had left the fleet for the land battle.
And why is he still so loyal to Ivar who openly humilitated him by wuffing at him when he claimed he was following Ubbe like a dog. Ubbe never humiliated him, and he actually was drinking the cup.
A massive win for camp Lagertha - I have no ideas how Ivar can recover from this defeat. Especially concerning his cowardish behaviour - in the eyes of the Viking culture - that will lose him a lot of trust of his men; Harald must become furious when he learns how he was betrayed by Ivar. Yes: I would call is treason.
*according to the historical record Ivar's trace went missing in Ireland. Maybe he will leave Norway and England for good after this defeat.
Futhermore, Kattegatt (=> it's a Danish region, Hedeby is even modern Germany today) has never belonged to the kingdom of the historical figure of Harald Finehair. sp?
Ubbe and Guthrum will become the leaders of the Greath Heathen army which will conquer all kingdoms in England but one: the Danelaw
Björn will travel South again.
His older half-brother had the high ground, assumed correctly that Ivar would keep men back to protect the fleet, and, last but not least, a possible flank maneveur. To sum it it up: every single one of his counter meassures were spot on.
On the other hand Ivar did shit - pardon my French here. When they seemed to reach an agreement I was like: No Lagertha! Don't be that stupid to believe him...but instead of a trick or lie, like Cercei in GoT, there was nothing arranged or planned, and it seems (I can't imagine how he could still have something in his sleeve) that Ivar went entirely without plan into battle.
Maybe his only goal was to get rid of King Harald...but even this failed. And losing his Christian warrior was also not intended if I read his reaction corectly.
The warrior in his army - and they follwed him only because his tactics brought them victory - have witness how he failed King Harald and there brothers in arm since many men who died while fighting side a side with Harald had been Ivar's men. This and the defeat will make "his" men think who is actually Ragnar's heir: Björn or Ivar.
Ivar's army was raised by Björn (and his brothers) to avenge Ragnar. At that time he had no reputation that would make a single warrior follow him. And now he lost to Björn - soundly.
Björn is Ragnar's first bon, he led the Greath Heathen army to victory, and now he beat Ivar...and it was, again, a sound defeat, and unlike Ivar he was ringing his sword with the enemy. He bled with his men while Ivar was "listening" to the battle.
This is so untrue to the ideas of the Viking culture that his men won't follow him for much longer imho. You don't hide from and battle and listen to its outcome only in order to survive.
But why was Björn suddenly such a brilliant strategist (I like it and I always liked him albeit he got often a bad rap...and more so I love Lagertha. And she was bad ass: a true Queen), and Ivar is making now such poor decisions...
He might be a cynic and giving a damn about the gods and their culture, but his men do. And without his men he is nothing.
As it seems he hadn't made any plans, moves, or tactics before the battle actually began. Again: the only thing I can make out of this, is that he tried to get rid of King Harald...but Harald survived and he will certainly learn how Ivar was hiding, listening and holding back his men when the horn was blown. Even Astrid wanted to assist Harald (most likely to use this choas to switch the sides but the narrative of Harald will be more like: my loyal and brave wife).
This other Ragnar brother - I don't care how he is written or called - was so out-matched...all he could do was run. And it was so well prepared that I think that Lagertha and Björn are the ones who have still something in their sleeves. A small troop of scouts might be enough to set the fleet aflame, and the entire amry of Harald and Ivar had left the fleet for the land battle.
And why is he still so loyal to Ivar who openly humilitated him by wuffing at him when he claimed he was following Ubbe like a dog. Ubbe never humiliated him, and he actually was drinking the cup.
A massive win for camp Lagertha - I have no ideas how Ivar can recover from this defeat. Especially concerning his cowardish behaviour - in the eyes of the Viking culture - that will lose him a lot of trust of his men; Harald must become furious when he learns how he was betrayed by Ivar. Yes: I would call is treason.
*according to the historical record Ivar's trace went missing in Ireland. Maybe he will leave Norway and England for good after this defeat.
Futhermore, Kattegatt (=> it's a Danish region, Hedeby is even modern Germany today) has never belonged to the kingdom of the historical figure of Harald Finehair. sp?
Ubbe and Guthrum will become the leaders of the Greath Heathen army which will conquer all kingdoms in England but one: the Danelaw
Björn will travel South again.