I don't eat either. I'm sure there is a way to make either that would work for me, but I haven't seen it.
Lots of extra raw veggies help both... shredded or cut up very small... and pickles.
a wise man once said "If someone doesn't want responses to his/her posts, then s/he shouldn't post them. If someone wants specific users to not respond...well, that's too bad." (link)
