? for anti-PT and pro-ST fans...

? for anti-PT and pro-ST fans... Feb 1, 2018 15:31:46 GMT

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Post by mcufan on Feb 1, 2018 15:31:46 GMT

Feb 1, 2018 14:28:28 GMT Waxer-n-boil said:

Feb 1, 2018 11:11:35 GMT mcufan said:

First of all I'm not anti PT. I'm Pro pt, always was always will be.

Second are you talking about Rey defeating kylo once in a lightsaber duel in TFA where he is badly wounded and she is prolific in staff battle, like she knows how to fight with a stick. It's what kept her alive in jakku. It's not a stretch that she knows a thing or two about combat.

Yes... I heard this defense before 10 dozen times. "Rey is prolific with the bo-staff. She fought with it all of her life on Jakku. We saw how skilled she was when she defeated Plutt's thugs and apprehended Finn, thinking he was a jacket thief." Here's the problem with that defense. It leads to another (relevant) question: If Rey is so proficient with the staff and has so much experience, why does she spend the entire time before her Force download running like a frightened rabbit on crack? Why is most of her moves sloppy attempts at blocking defense? Why do the 2 or 3 offensive attempts of Rey look like clumsy pokes you would expect from her allegedly drunken parents? Why is that Mr. "I've only been trained in blasters!" Finn able to press an attack against Kylo and even land a blow on Kylo... while Ms. "spent half her life wielding a bo-staff" Rey couldn't do either? Please answer those questions! Until you provide competent answers to the questions I just mentioned, my opening question still stands...

See the answer to Ryboto. Also you never see Luke being trained with lightsabers, unless some remote action is training enough, and i am made to believe he can confront Vader and actually wound him? Stretchs of imagination are part of SW since the beggining. Did he train very hard between ANH and ESB, very very hard? Rey from TFA would obliterate Luke from ESB in a heartbeat. She had to survive for years and years.

She stumbled in the beggining because she was caught by surprise by all what's happening around her. The force download it's called focus.

And Finn striking was proof that Kylo was puttting up an act and was actually more injured than he let on. Everything explained good grief...

As for Luke, when did they actually meet? Oh, when kylo defeated him and destroyed the academy. Yeah Luke has the upper hand always *sigh*

Well that is a good point, but from the looks of what happened onscreen there wasn't a lightsaber battle between them. It looked as if Kylo awoke panicked and unleashed some kind of Force storm that subdued Luke and buried him under a pile of rubble from destroyed houses/buildings. And Kylo believed Luke to be dead. Additionally Luke yelled "NO KYLO, DON'T!" (or something to that effect) when Kylo started to attack - so Luke was more pleading with Kylo to disarm his attack than focused on engaging him in a duel.

My point still stands, they never met in a lightsaber duel, and when they did meet (even without lightsaber fight) Kylo bested him.

Or are you talking about when kylo subdued Rey, entered her mind?

And as soon as untrained Rey entered into Kylo's mind back, he lost so badly he ran out of the room like a child frightened by the boogeyman looking for protection from his daddy. LOL! So the point of my initial question still stands...

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Or when kylo convinced her to come to her.

I'm not sure what scene you're referring to here?

When he tricks her, like he tricked Snoke in hiding his true intentions and making her come to him for redemption, wich he never intended. It takes some skill to mask one's intentions in the Force. He bested her in the mind game.

Or when kylo destroyed her saber?

They both destroyed that lightsaber from simultaneously Force pulling on it. Accidentally on their part, if I recall.

I concede this one, but it wasn't like she was making it look easy, that's the point.

How do you explain some people aptitude to be great drivers, artists, musicians, players even at young ages before training? She's a natural.

That's what we were left to conclude with no exposition in TFA. We finally get some brief exposition from Luke in TLJ. When Luke gives Rey her (one and only) training session in the Force he says "I've only seen that kind of raw power once before! It didn't scare me then! It does now!" So master Luke qualifies Rey is having power he's only seen once before... so I guess you're right.

Oh... wait a minute... who was the raw power Luke had only seen once before?... Was it... Kylo?!? So Kylo has raw power equal to or close to Rey's level - and he's also had training from 2 masters! One on the Lightside (Luke) and one on the Darkside (Snoke). My initial question still stands...

Sure, and that double training is his greatest weakness. He is conflicted, he never unleashes his true potential because of it. Snoke says it, You see it when he fails to kill Leia, what more do you want? And he's an interesting character because of it.

She needs training understanding and controlling it not to tap into the force.

Does she need training?!?... In fact, there's so much confusing exposition around that question that I'm going to post a future thread about it. It would get too off topic trying to expand on it here.

Yes, she needs training. There is no debate. But unlike Luke's training where he had trouble tapping into the force, she needs training in understanding it. But yes some training is required or she will be tempted by the dark side like she was n the movie (i really don't know what's to understand here) She only gets a few lessons from Luke but she still needs additional training, on her own, with the books, force ghost, whatever. She neeeds it. She barely escaped Snoke, if not for Kylo saving her at the last minute.

She's using her instincts but doesn't know how she is doing it. It's explained in the movie. Go see it instead of reminiscing on things that are already explained.

Refer back to the points I just made. Then try to answer the question again, but taking into consideration the exposition that I just gave you.

Hope you are satisfied! Always glad to help.