Post by ryboto on Feb 1, 2018 15:53:08 GMT
See the answer to Ryboto. Also you never see Luke being trained with lightsabers, unless some remote action is training enough, and i am made to believe he can confront Vader and actually wound him? Stretchs of imagination are part of SW since the beggining. Did he train very hard between ANH and ESB, very very hard? Rey from TFA would obliterate Luke from ESB in a heartbeat. She had to survive for years and years.
The difference is the passage of time. Luke was given guidance, and we see he at the VERY least had access to the training stun ball thing. So, right there, he's got an edge over Rey. Not a stretch, a logical leap. That's the friggin difference. Lucas provided exposition that made these logic leaps work and seem organic to our suspension of disbelief. Rey wouldn't obliterate Luke. Take away her stick, which she uses clunkily, and Luke has the weight advantage. Neither of them is an experienced fighter. Though, Luke SHOULD be a better pilot, but as we see with her stunt in the Falcon, she's got him tied there already and she'd never flown it before!
She stumbled in the beggining because she was caught by surprise by all what's happening around her. The force download it's called focus.
She didn't stumble, she was inexperienced. She lacks the skill. Then JJ decides the force can supersede skill and logic, and so she gets skill from a single word, and miraculously, conveniently, Kylo forgets all of his skill and his focus at the same time.
When he tricks her, like he tricked Snoke in hiding his true intentions and making her come to him for redemption, wich he never intended. It takes some skill to mask one's intentions in the Force. He bested her in the mind game.
But then she bests him immediately following...
I concede this one, but it wasn't like she was making it look easy, that's the point.
The implication, is that without the level of training Kylo has, she's able to match him in not only the force, but with use of a lightsabre.
No, that's utterly your interpretation. You can't have it both ways. You can't have him conflicted to make it convenient for your argument in one scene, then he can mind trick Snoke EASILY in another, showing his prowess in the force - which is a result of ALL of his training. His inner emotional conflict simply makes his decisions sloppy.
Yes, she needs training. There is no debate. But unlike Luke's training where he had trouble tapping into the force, she needs training in understanding it. But yes some training is required or she will be tempted by the dark side like she was n the movie (i really don't know what's to understand here) She only gets a few lessons from Luke but she still needs additional training, on her own, with the books, force ghost, whatever. She neeeds it. She barely escaped Snoke, if not for Kylo saving her at the last minute.
What suggests she needs it? She was given no instruction from Luke with a sabre, and she's fine, she lifted rocks, she's mind tricked, she's mind read....what the hell training does she need?! Where in the film is she shown as inept beyond that dumb fern-tickle scene?
You're very confused about what you saw, which is why this is difficult. The writing is bad, and that's why in one scene she's capable, and in another, Snoke is obviously her superior, as is Kylo...then in the next, she's on Kylo's level....so if she's on his level, she could have bested Snoke? See how awful and inconsistent it is?