Post by dazz on Nov 21, 2018 2:04:09 GMT
To be perfectly clear, of course there were at least hundreds of deaths. In such an event there would be. The same could be said about any of the major comic book movie battles that take place in a city or crowded place that hasn't had the chance to evacuate, including any of the major Avengers battles. You don't think anyone died in that Hulk/Iron Man or Sakovia fight?
But to be perfectly technical about this particular argument, those two deaths are the only ones that we ACTUALLY know about. We don't actually see or know about any other deaths from the point of view of the movie itself.
So, again, technically speaking, we know of only two actual deaths: Wayne's employee who stays in the building after he evacuates everyone else, and the little girls mother. Then there's the guy who's legs are crushed.
If a movie wants you to understand that there were tons of deaths it will show them to you. Otherwise you can really only point the finger at these two. And those happen in BvS, not MOS.
I thought it presented Wayne seeing great loss of life, including some personal to him, because of these inhuman aliens and the battle they thrust on our world, and he was going to take care of that alien threat disguised in a man's body to protect the world. That he only relented when he realized that the alien wasn't exactly inhuman at all. I may very well have misread that motivation.
It could be that he took the deaths of those he knew more personally that he felt helpless to protect, even though he was a "superhero", and he was justifying his vendetta as "saving the world" , but he really wanted Supes gone because that made him feel inferior, as the only or close to the only losses in that whole thing were right there where he was, and he couldn't stop it. Then when he realized Supes had a mother too, he realized the inferiority was an illusion, and he relented.
Many deaths, I see Batman having a "cause". 2 deaths, especially personal to him, I see him seeking a "reason". Both work, it just changes the character for me.
Like I said, I'll rewatch. I could have missed it.
Well he does specifically tell Alfred to count the dead and says they are in the thousands, but yet he is kind of unhinged, Batman is to a degree anyway but they went too far in the film Batman doesn't take a Superman going bad as a risk you cant wait on, the whole looking for the kryptonite thing and everything prior to this exchange,,,
Alfred: You're gonna go to war?
Bruce Wayne: That son of a bitch brought the war to us two years ago. Jesus, Alfred, count the dead... thousands of people. What's next? Millions? He has the power to wipe out the entire human race, and if we believe there's even a one percent chance that he is our enemy we have to take it as an absolute certainty... and we have to destroy him.
Alfred: But he is not our enemy!
Bruce Wayne: Not today. Twenty years in Gotham, Alfred; we've seen what promises are worth. How many good guys are left? How many stayed that way?
That is where things go wrong imo, specifically the bold part, up till then it makes sense and is Batman, Superman IS too big a risk to leave unchecked which is why Batman does keep a stash of kryptonite on hand just incase, but Batman doesn't act on the chance Superman can go bad he doesn't even act on the fact Superman has gone bad if there is a chance of turning him back to good, I mean if they literally replace the bold part of that exchange with Bruce saying "and let's pray it never comes to that." keeps Bruce as he normally is, he seems unhinged but he at his core is still who he always is, he's simply planning for the worst, Alfred meanwhile is merely afraid that Bruce's preparations for war may in fact be the cause of one.
It also plays into the film a little more with Bruce becoming increasingly more aggressive towards Superman, as the film goes on the shred of restraint he has is stressed & stretched until Luthor bombs the place I forgot where it was, and Superman alone survives and then the taunting letters finally make him snap along with his nightmare, but it kind of works less imo if Bruce is already planning to murder Superman from the offset of the film.
But yeah in BVS it is stated clearly thousands did in fact die during MOS and Bruce knows it and takes it to heart.