Better Ending: Logan or Days of Future Past.

Aug 20, 2019 22:24:41 GMT thenolan said:

Aug 20, 2019 21:07:09 GMT dazz said:

Actually as a stand alone movie it loses half it's value, see without the weight of the original X-Men trilogy without First Class most of the weighty scenes in DOFP have little to no meaning, Mystique's relationships with everyone is nothing without the 4 other films of backstory, the devestation of the Sentinel's means little to nothing without the connection to the original trilogy of movies, Stewart & McAvoy speaking doesn't hold 1/4 of the meaning of impact without the prior performances of both actors in the role previously, like Endgame & IW are mostly carried by the built up emotional cache from the prior films of the MCU so to does DOFP, if you look at it as an isolated film what makes it "great" is lost, it makes up for some of the faults of the movie sure, but it turns good into ok, where as the past movies connections and the lack of continuity or sense of this film due to that turn a great film into a good film.

Also the Mystique as Striker thing was half baked, made obvious by the fact they didn't know what to do with that and ignore it in the very next movie, they didn't even write in a scene in Apocalypse of Mystique recognising it was Logan on a rampage suggesting some history we never saw that's inconsequential to the actual plot of the film, but atleast that doesn't make the Mystique reveal in DOFP a completely wasted moment.

This is from obvious fans of MCU who are not dealing well with Endgame's messed up time travel story and the fall out from Fat Thor.  First Class and DOFP go hand in hand, both would have lost its value without the other. DOFP was the movie that was supposed to be the last film, to tie up everything together. They are not to be separated as it looses its value.

The part of Stewart and Mcavoy speaking was sadly among the best parts in DOFP. I remember something almost similar to Endgame when  Thor speaks to his mum, the only problem is,  the Thor  scene is downgraded because Thor's character  has been destroyed  by making him a full on joke, so it lacks the emotional gravity  as Xavier , who was taken more seriously as a character living with  trauma to Thor. The other characters meeting their past or future  self or parents was  actually more about having fun with their time travel heist not about real  realistic adult issues of pain and  regret like Xavier in DOFP meeting Xavier.

Infinity War does not have any real deep story focus for any character. The last we see of Xavier in first class was a paralyzed  broken man, who started the film very differently,  I can't remember much in  infinity war since it was a full on action packed movie with little story or character development for anyone, The direct emotional weight  is less from Infinity war to endgame to First Class to DOFP as one is very story absent.

DOFP did use the time travel makes it all better, but it does so stupidly also, stopping the Sentinels that did nothing between DOFP and The Wolverine somehow prevented Jean going psychotic and killing Cyclops, fair enough Mystique becoming a mutant icon and ushering a new sense of acceptance could have stifled the idea of a cure preventing Rogue from giving up her powers, but DOFP's ending is just stupid as Logan would return to the same time period consciousness left, as in he'd be in the future, atleast a decade on from where we last saw the X-Men,

DOFP was the next movie after X3 and Wolverine I already said DOFP works as a movie if you treat it as it should, one of the two endings of the series that started in X-Men 1. Its only stupid if I was to look at it from your  wronged view.

yet the movie ends with it being like it's 6 months on from The Last Stand at worst, no one moved on everyone was static from that point on, it's hilariously stupid and sad to a degree.

This didn't occur in the movie. The movie ends in what was supposed to be a brand new timeline where everyone is supposedly spared until we travel back to the past with the ''shock ending'', usually a good plot device for good time travel movies as good time travel stories are not supposed to be a 100% sure easy fixer. One of my biggest grip with Endgame, Even for a Marvel kids movie. Wasn't that all too easy?

DOFP often gets lauded as a great film, it isn't it's a good film, hence it is overrated, it also did nothing new, it did nothing inventive, it did nothing spectacular other than having 5 tremendous performers 2 of which were in reduced roles with Jackman, McAvoy, Fassbender, Stewart & McKellan they carry much of the movie, Dinkleage wasn't bad but he wasn't great either imo, just wasn't given enough to do maybe, the performances carry the film, the actual film is generic and half baked.

Something new is hard, the movie was following  the approach X-Men 1 took, in  comparison to the present superhero movies of Endgame , Captain marvel, Dark Phoenix and Far from home, it is not overrated but a step above those constant badly done mcu movies that gets worse with every writing.

DOFP is regarded as a great film as it is one. The story mostly checks and the film's style shines.  DOFP is what you also call a dressing down of the generic cliches of superhero movies. The superhero expected elements were  an after thought, You can call DOFP a Vietnam post war civil right statement movie and it could work in that concept,  that aspect of the movie works better than the obvious superhero aspects.  I wish the superhero movies of 2019 did more dressing downs. I hope superhero movies can redeem itself when The Joker is out in October.

I am actually a fan of all cbm's, I see faults in all the major franchises, which I am happy to point out, but I try not to make sweeping generalisation except in jest at them, imo Fat Thor isn't bad as an idea, in exectution though it is fun and enjoyable it does lose a lot of merit due to the comedy appeal, same flaw I find with Ragnarok, Thor is IW played it great he was funny but could be serious also, had Endgame not had Thor be silly during the Dark World scenes I don't think him being fat would have been an issue, it's that Thor went back to his home when his mother, father, brother & friends were still alive and his only concern was initially to steal booze, that hurts those scenes, but a depressed and out of shape Thor speaking to his mother who reinvigorates spirits and gives him the spark to keep fighting works, would also have worked if he wasn't fat but him just being fat doesn't fuck anything up it's how his character behaved a scene earlier that does imo.

But McAvoy talking with Stewart does work on it's own as a scene, but the omg and weight of that scene, the importance stems mostly from the emotional connect we have for both performers in that role, taken as a scene in an isolated movie that scene is great, but with the backstory and meaning to it that scene becomes incredible an omg holy shit YES DAMMIT YES!! moment in the movie and franchise, remove the history remove the greater weight of it.

See you are a double talking half witted hypocrite, you are trying to shift the goal post, look at it on it's own, but take all the meaning and merit of the previous films to add to it, dispose of all the nonsense, the inconsistencies, and whatever you do don't count the future instalments which work to breaking the importance even more...no you either take it all or take none of it, taken it all and the film is a good movie that could have been great if it wasn't for stupid inconsistencies, forcing a character into a vital role they shouldn't be in due to star power and not having a clue to correctly end the film to get the true happily ever after, take none of it and it's a film that the inconsistencies go away because isolated it isn't contradicting those things, the ending works, but the weight of everything through the movie is lost, Logan freaking when he see's Striker for the first time makes no real sense, Magneto & Xavier's friendship isn't as meaningful, the relationship between Mystique and Magneto or Xavier are hollow, Mystique being the key to the sentinels works because we don't know how limited her powers truly are, but the happy ever after ending doesn't mean anything as who are these people and why do we care? the deaths of Storm, Magneto, Iceman even Colossus don't matter any more than Blink, Bishop or Sunwhatever as we don't really know who the fuck these character are to have an emotional connection to them.

First Class stands on it's own, that's the thing it doesn't need any of the other films, and FC & DOFP do NOT go hand in hand, everything in FC is meaningless due to DOFP, all the mutants we meet in FC die except Xavier, Beast, Magneto, Mystique & Havoc who doesn't actually matter to the series past FC, Magneto and Xavier don't do shit after FC until DOFP, Magneto is captured within a year and Xavier closes the school due to Vietnam, so everything they accomplish, everything they lose and everything they tried in FC does not matter, DOFP waters down FC to being a movie that does not matter except to establish the friendship between Xavier & Magneto, which isn't needed because McAvoy & Fassbender have insane chemistry together that they don't need it, it helps but it isn't quite NEEDED.

Logan also gets a boost from the past movies giving more weight to the performances and friendship between Jackman & Stewart as Logan & Xavier, but on it's own like Fassbander & McAvoy their chemistry is so good it quickly becomes established to where the other films are not required watching to get their bond, but because specific deaths of X-Men are used to build emotion and visual awe you don't need to have seen the other films to get the weight of the loss, the actors sell it themselves, Logan can live as a great movie without the need of any other film, DOFP cannot it needs the baggage and history to make it special, Logan lives by the performances and a great script which means you don't need the excess weight of the franchise to bolster it, DOFP has some great performances that do anchor to movie but it also has Lawrence half arsing it as per usual, it has Holt doing good but not great, it has most of the future scenes which aren't great except for McAvoy & Fassbender as limited as they are, Dinklage is good but again not great due to not having enough to do imo, sure it has the excellent Quicksilver stuff but that's a few minutes and not enough to build the film on, Logan also ends in an impactful and emotional way, you can watch Logan without seeing anything else and say fuck me that's a great movie, without seeing any other X-Men film you don't get that, you barely get that if you have because the story then doesn't work properly.

DOFP's ending isn't meant to be picking up from where Last Stand took off, it's meant to be Logan is returned to the body of the Logan from the same point in time as the Logan of that timeline, but we know from The Wolverine & DOFP their bleak future is years past the end of The Last Stand, but that's how that ending reads, everyone is in an idealistic place for where they could be from the potential of The Last Stand, which means if it is in the future as it's meant to be no ones life moved on in years, it also makes no sense how stopping the Sentinels stopped Jean from imploding and having her Phoenix breakdown from The Last Stand, I mean shit Mystique isn't even present which could have been a possibility for how the past of DOFP ended.

DOFP is a great idea ultimately handled quite sloppily, Logan is a great idea handled greatly, even as ending to the series DOFP ends with a cheap and hollow happy ever after for the Original trilogy, Logan however ends with a great ending of finality to the series we had been watching for 17 years, sad and heart breaking but with hope and yet a feeling of completion.

But you keep being a fucking idiot and bitching about the MCU, I'm sure you'll one day convince the world that the MCU is the devil or whatever other feeble bullshit you want to spout.