Post by Arlon10 on Sept 6, 2019 23:54:45 GMT
Sept 6, 2019 20:20:32 GMT:
FilmFlaneur said: [full test here]<clip>
I leave definitions and the meaning of words to dictionaries, Arlon - you know, those pesky things you argue with - 'and win'?That's great for definitions, but definitions are not the issue here as I will again make clear with yet a new illustration, the canned vegetable problem.
First though ...
FilmFlaneur : But 'rules' and 'standard' practice are not words I have used here, so this is a strawman.
and ...
FilmFlaneur : It has always been a rule with me (and in fact this is standard practice among social scientists) to take at face value the claims of self-defining groups, like religious people, about what they believe and how they see themselves.
Now for the canned vegetable problem. There are two labels, "corn" and "diced carrots." There are two vegetables curiously enough, corn and diced carrots.
However one day on opening a can labeled "diced carrots" only corn is found. What has happened here? Is the definition of "diced carrots" wrong? The product in the can is rather obviously not conforming to the definition. No, there is nothing wrong with the definition in itself. There is nothing wrong with the definition before it was applied to any can. There is something very wrong though. The label was misapplied to a can of corn.
I haven't challenged any dictionary or anyone's definition of Christianity (yet). I merely pointed out that it does appear someone is applying the wrong labels. When you leave your mother's basement you might notice that "religious" labels are indeed applied very differently. That's fine for the separate groups, but it doesn't work when various groups join the same the discussion. That's when ad hoc definitions serve well.
Now I will however ask you to develop your definition of religion. I want you to describe what it is. Have you ever been in the street minding your business when a fundamentalist Christian approached you and begged you to "accept Jesus"? Did you wonder what that means? Did you ask what it means? Here's a problem, the very young street witnesses often have no idea what it means. They could not tell you what it means. Does it mean you should avoid divorce? Work hard? Study? They might tell you it does not. What is the definition of an "evangelical" Christian? What are the requirements?
I believe you will find after careful and prolonged investigation that there are often very little or no standards whatsoever. It is very polite of you to count as a "Christian" anyone who claims to be one, but that is no help whatever in knowing what the word means. We may discuss who is a Christian, but have no idea what it means to be one. When you use words that have no meaning some people will call you a blithering idiot. Why shouldn't they? Your words are utterly pointless.
Unlike you, I use words to a purpose, and that requires they mean something insofar as identifying one thing from another. When two groups are the same like Christians and atheists I try to find one word for both. When those are different from all other people I try to find a different word for the others. This is merely to facilitate useful communication. Perhaps one day you will learn to facilitate useful communication instead of shouting it down like a blithering idiot.