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Post by stargazer1682 on Apr 28, 2018 1:31:55 GMT
I just wanted to remark that this week's batch of episodes for the Arrowverse didn't suck. Supergirl and Flash on the whole could be described as good, and this week's Arrow wasn't terrible. I.... I don't know how I feel about this...
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Post by dazz on Apr 28, 2018 5:50:00 GMT
I thought Flash sucked myself, like even the idea of certain elements are beyond idiotic, Thinker can predict the behaviour and exact resulting ramifications of behaviour of people from a different universe we have never been shown him observing to the point he knew both Citizen Cold and Siren X would be brought to Earth-1 but he couldn't predict Barry was going to have a bad reaction to Ralph's death?
Like him rationally concluding Barry would bring in a Snart either from an alternative earth or a past point in history would be fine, but Siren X should have been the wild card not Barry's freezing up, also if the plan was to get Meltdown or whatever his name was where Barry was taking him what was the point of him attacking them?
And Siren X really that's the name why the fuck was she Siren X? why not just Siren? and how the fuck does her power to eaves drop work? like she wasn't even close to them how could she know exactly where they were to listen in on them? and does Black Siren have the same ability because seems odd if she wouldn't, so yeah me no likey Flash this week, Supergirl was ok, I actually enjoyed Arrow this week though the we all can all get along without Oliver group circle jerk can go fuck themselves because from my pov their all in the wrong yet were meant to buy that it's all Oliver's fault yet again despite evidence to the contrary so that bit can get fucked, Oliver wanting to turn Anatoli against Diaz though I liked, especially Oliver willing to go into a fight expecting Diaz to cheat to do it, shows Oliver's commitment to the task and also smoothed over Oliver's easy capture early on, so I liked it.
I give this week a 6/10 as Arrow offset Flash and SG was just above mediocre imo, still a far cry from what we used to get but atleast one show was actually good this week.
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Post by General Kenobi on Apr 28, 2018 13:41:17 GMT
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Post by stargazer1682 on Apr 28, 2018 16:33:46 GMT
I thought Flash sucked myself, like even the idea of certain elements are beyond idiotic, Thinker can predict the behaviour and exact resulting ramifications of behaviour of people from a different universe we have never been shown him observing to the point he knew both Citizen Cold and Siren X would be brought to Earth-1 but he couldn't predict Barry was going to have a bad reaction to Ralph's death? Like him rationally concluding Barry would bring in a Snart either from an alternative earth or a past point in history would be fine, but Siren X should have been the wild card not Barry's freezing up, also if the plan was to get Meltdown or whatever his name was where Barry was taking him what was the point of him attacking them? And Siren X really that's the name why the fuck was she Siren X? why not just Siren? and how the fuck does her power to eaves drop work? like she wasn't even close to them how could she know exactly where they were to listen in on them? and does Black Siren have the same ability because seems odd if she wouldn't, so yeah me no likey Flash this week, Supergirl was ok, I actually enjoyed Arrow this week though the we all can all get along without Oliver group circle jerk can go fuck themselves because from my pov their all in the wrong yet were meant to buy that it's all Oliver's fault yet again despite evidence to the contrary so that bit can get fucked, Oliver wanting to turn Anatoli against Diaz though I liked, especially Oliver willing to go into a fight expecting Diaz to cheat to do it, shows Oliver's commitment to the task and also smoothed over Oliver's easy capture early on, so I liked it. I give this week a 6/10 as Arrow offset Flash and SG was just above mediocre imo, still a far cry from what we used to get but atleast one show was actually good this week. With DeVoe, I would argue that it's the result of his intelligence reaching a breaking point; where he had previously reached a pinnacle point in his thought process, that did in fact allow him to accurately predict the most likely outcome of events. But now he's stepped beyond that threshold, to where he's now overthinking; while his growing intellect (and possibly the multiple body transfers) have diminished certain facets of his critical thinking, which in turns alters how he calculates his subsequent predictions. He's becoming more detached while growing more arrogant, which consequently leads to the cracks in the veneer; and I think the crucial thing is that he's starting to factor himself out of his equations - the ramifications of his behavior, because the thought processes should be so perfect, that he takes for granted how he's perceived or responded to - by Barry when he froze and now, exponentially, his wife as he fails to return her affections or comprehend how the emotional factors have played a role in recent events. It actually reminds me of an episode of Deep Space Nine, where these genetically enhanced individuals - many of them with some type of behavioral problem - find that they can pick-up on the certain things; like body language, linguistics, giving Starfleet insight and a small edge in negotiations during a war. They even begin to calculate statistics that prove valuable in making certain decisions about the war, but it soon becomes this rabbit hole; where they deeper they go and the further out they work their predictions, the more obsessive become, while simultaneously less objective. Even the more well adjusted Augment, Dr. Julian Bashir, gets drawn into their conclusions about the ultimate hopelessness of the Federation winning the war with the Dominion; and that a surrender now would save countless lives that would most likely be lost, only to lose anyway. This leads to some of the less stable Augments to use some of the classified reports that Starfleet had given them access to when they were helping with analyses to try and win the war, by planning to give the info to the other side; so that they could use those reports to bring a swift conclusion. What they failed to take into consideration was a young Augment woman who was part of their group, who because of the nature of her genetic and cognitive augmentation, was something short of being locked in her own body, scarcely able to communicate with the outside world. They didn't think she'd be of any consequence to their plans or any of their predicted outcomes, but she was able to warn Bashir and stop them - and as Bashir tells them, no matter how sound the math, they couldn't even predicted what would happen in their room. As for Siren-X… The naming convention is about par for anything else on these shows, much less the comics. I mean, just Earth X alone hurts my brain. When they first introduced the multiverse on The Flash, they detected 52 earths; yet somehow there was one more, but it wasn’t given a designation, because blah, blah, no goes there or comes back or some bullshit – but if that were true, how does anyone know it exists or what’s happening there? And who gave any of these earths their number in the first place then? Are we to believe that other earths actually refer to Earth 1 as Earth 1, and their own Earth as Earth 38 or Earth 42? Siren X’s power to hear at a great distance makes about as much sense as Superman’s or Supergirl’s ability to do the same exact thing; maybe more so, by virtue of it tying in with her existing sonic abilities. I wouldn’t hazard a guess what the internal logic might be, and I admit, I did role my eyes are the extreme distance her powers seemed to work over, but I did still find it to be an interesting choice in extrapolate her powers; that it’s more than just making sound, but a more elaborate command of sound. I mean, how does the sonic cry even work? We’re talking about sound that produces force; and yet it doesn’t throw Siren-X or Black Siren or Black Canary backwards when they use such abilities. Does this mean other characters with a sonic cry should have or will have the same ability to hear? Maybe. If it means exploring the nature of those powers more, I can get on board with it. I actually thought it might have been worth starting to explore that with Dinah in Arrow this week, when they were trying to use the laser to listen in on the meeting. Maybe it’s the next evolution of those powers; and because the metas on Earth X are less inhibited, and perhaps were experimented on, they can do stuff their counterparts on other earths can’t. One thing that gets me though is how we now have two alternate Laurels with the same powers, which Earth 1 Laurel didn’t actually posses. I kind of wish they’d examine that more, and the fact that someone else entirely ended up having those powers on Earth 1 instead. With Supergirl, I thought the initial introduction of J’Onn’s father’s dementia was a little much; especially with how they had him not want Alex to tell J’Onn – as if he wouldn’t find out eventually. The psychic bleed affecting other characters resembled more than one episode of Star Trek, but if you have a character with telepathic suffering a loss of mental control, it kind of makes sense that, that might become an issue. And what it would mean for a species that places such importance on their mental disciplines and telepathic abilities to lose all that does have some strong implications. The whole sub-plot with the cape work was a little much, I will say. I would say it reminded me of the short lived NBC series The Cape, but since I never watched it, it reminded me more of Community and Abed’s obsession with The Cape, and the whole “Six season and a movie!” bit…. Nice to see Mon-El finally in his costume, though somehow there’s something off about. I can’t place my finger on it though. The part with Lena and Sam was solid; and in comparison to other Supergirl episodes, this was definitely a better one. And that’s pretty much how I looked at all three shows this weeks; not so much in contrast to each other, but against their own episodes to date. Supergirl’s plot and execution was reasonably well done; The Flash was fairly solid, with minimum cheese. As you said, I could have done without the B-Team’s self-fellating, aren’t we great without Oliver-ness. I really hope they don’t have a moment where Oliver realizes the error of his ways and apologizes to the team. The only apology deserved was the one he’s already given to John about remaining the Green Arrow. I’m ambivalent about the second (or first?) story with Oliver and Anatoly; I mean, it apparently took Oliver a week tops, if not significantly less than that, to put Anatoly back in good graces with the Bratva, and he didn’t do that until now? And Anatoly needed Oliver or Diaz to prove which one actually had honor? Did Anatoly receive a brain injury that we don’t know about? Oliver should have killed Diaz when he had the chance, instead of demanding he yield. I don’t know what that might have proven to Anatoly, but a great of the current problems would be resolved; and it’s not like he has the same compunction about lethal force that Barry has….
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Post by dazz on Apr 28, 2018 17:45:29 GMT
The Devoe thing still bugs me because how in the name of fuck buggery can he know how exact outcomes of events in other worlds happen to the point he knew right when Siren X & Leo were in close quarters with one another Barry would then come and get Leo and that Siren X would both try and be able to follow them back to Earth 1? Given the fucking idiot cant figure out a means to stop his fucking with from figuring out he's drugging her, how exactly can he figure out the exact random events that need to not happen for Siren X to be able to follow them? I mean all it takes is for one stiff door or a rat knocking over a can to cause Siren X to be delayed by 2 seconds and his plan would be fucked Barry freezing or not, and it's just shitty writing imo for them to have him go oh I knew all along that all these random acts in another world was happening yet I could not predict Barry would freeze up upon seeing me use Ralph's powers, like I said him predicting Barry would recruit a freezer ally to make up for KF made sense but the Siren thing was overkill and made him look silly imo, the augments comparisons works until you factor in we are never shown him knowing shit about Earth X so how can he just know anything about them, they never even hinted at how he could have monitored it either it's just he's so smart he can predict the multiverse based off of his earth which is dumb to me. I didn't mind the dementia story but I disliked the psychological bleed thing, as u said its kind of trek like but I always hated those trek episodes, disliked it effecting Supergirl or did it? but disliked her I'm mad because I romanticised you after you left but you were a jerk before you cared about me, which is an issue I hated people having with Mon-El because it's not like they set him up to be prince charming, he was a womanising spoilt prince before he woke up on earth, but people hate the character for Supergirl basically falling for the guy, but it should be I hate that development to Kara and I hate the writers for fucking her up, not I hate this character because he was a douche who became a hero but I'm still hating him because he was a douche considering every fucking character on this show has been an utter twat at some fucking point ARGH!!! Also makes me laugh because male character does it and he's a dick, Sara does it an people find it endearing, despite her doing shit possibly fucking up history and causing women to maybe be burnt alive as witches...but you know he's a bad man ...now that I think about it maybe this episode would have bugged me less if I didn't listen to some people bitch about Mon-El like idiots, why cant people be more like Deb and hate him for valid reasons, like he's dragging down Saturn Girl & the Legion for this love triangle bullshit. The Oliver not killing Diaz thing could be because Oliver knows Diaz is in league with bigger players, taking him out only puts another person in charge, like a hydra, so better to weaken the body so when you do chop off the head it's too broken to grow a new one or if it does the body is still crippled regardless, which turning Anatoli accomplishes, which can also lead to Anatoli helping Oliver get out from his current circumstances. I do agree though if Oliver could help out Anatoli so easily why didn't he sooner, why not tell Anatoli from the get go he wont help him break the laws in Star City or in the US but should he require it he has no issue helping him in Russia, your home your rules sort of thing, but then why didn't Oliver tell anyone about the Mirakuru cure till the very last minute back in S2? Oliver sometimes overlooks the obvious solution to significant problems, but given the recent confluence of idiocy that's a minor issue.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Apr 28, 2018 19:10:23 GMT
Something I didn't think about until considering my response, which the show could have done better acknowledging or exploring, is the fact that DeVoe has been around since the beginning; just somewhere in the background, planning and setting things into motion. That gives him four years where he could have quite possibly explored the multiverse - I mean, 52 Earths in addition to his? Why not? Especially once people from those earths start crossing over to Earth 1 and vice versa; they became variables in his analysis like everything else. So understanding the nature of those factors would be just as important monitoring events on Earth 1.
What it all boils down to is statistical analysis. In real life, an actuary can calculate the likelihood of certain things happening, like a home being destroyed by a flood, or an accidental death, based on statistics of a wide variety of known circumstances. It makes me think of an episode from the Canadian medical drama, Saving Hope; where a patient is sleep walking and drawing on the walls of the hospital. The character was an actuary, and it turns out that what he's been writing on the walls are actually statistics of things like meeting your wife under these set of circumstances, having a kid after a certain again. It becomes clear quickly he's talking about his own life; and he continues he notes how, this is the formula that predicts the likelihood that said child will have dark hair, be left handed... get hit by a car, marriage falls apart, losing your job... None of those things were something he could have definitively known would happen based on his math, but it was still something that plagued him; especially since in his line of work, he knew how to draw the correlations and how one thing might lead to something else. And that torment of not being able to use that to protect his son or save his marriage lead to his sleep walking.
With DeVoe, it's taking all of that to the next level. In earlier episodes he would often talk about how, out of so many different possible outcomes, only in this percentage did x, y, z happen; they might have called him something other than the thinker, or taken some other course of action. He's not predicting with such absolute certainty, down to the decimal what will happen, so much as calculating 50 or 100 different scenarios based on the variables he does know, to predict the top 50 most likely outcomes; and probably weighs each by some standard of probability, as he waits to see which one plays out. They've downplayed that a little lately, especially with the last episode where he was certain about Barry's actions and blindsided by how they failed to play out the way he thought they would; which may very well be the point. As I said, he could be so far up his own ass and deep into his thought processes, that he's decompensating; he thinks he no longer needs to think of the top 50 possible outcomes, but the top 5 or even just what he deems to be the 1 most probable outcome, because he's so smart that any of those other variations don't merit consideration.
While it was never hinted at as a possible storyline, I actually wanted to see something along those lines as an arc for the Zachery Levi series Chuck; where the Intersect gets an update that programs Chuck's subconscious with all these statistics and predictive algorithms. He starts to sort of predict things before they happen, because his mind is extrapolating its observations and projecting what will happen next; and at first it's pretty accurate. Then he has this experience where the Intersect creates this elaborate simulation in his mind - basically a dream - that would contend to predict his distant future; something like 15 years removed from the present. And he sees all these things like he and Sarah are getting divorced, Casey losing a leg and finding inner peace, Awesome is out of shape and depressed. Chuck himself is a full fledged spy, who barely uses the intersect anymore, or at least isn't phased by the flashes; while Sarah has left that life behind to raise their daughter. Morgan is a General, who now gives Chuck his orders. And Chuck's sister is dead, and Chuck blames himself. The whole experience, from Chuck's perspective, would be entirely in the moment; like a dream where the events you're experiencing are exactly how things are supposed to be, instead of the detached or remote perspective present-day Chuck would have. Chuck would wake up from this wanting to do whatever he can to avoid all of this from happening, but the more he tries to avoid it, the more some of the things come true - until he comes to understand and appreciate that at least some of the things are being influenced and forced to come true as a result of his foreknowledge, as sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy; something that the Intersect took into consideration. It knows well enough to factor in behavior stemming from knowledge gleamed from the predictive flashes, even though it becomes a logical paradox of knowledge of predicted events leading to those predictions coming true as a direct result of predicting them. In wrapping his head around this, Chuck embraces his free will and manages to make a decision that allows him to break the loop and achieve a happier ending.
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Post by dazz on Apr 28, 2018 19:30:00 GMT
TL:DR JK Could be I just wish the show would stop doing some of this shit where they think, oh well it's obvious that this is happening o no need to explain it, when it's like no not obvious and yes you do because otherwise it's in limbo is A why this is happening or is it B or maybe C but A B & C whilst explain why X is going on alter how Y & Z can be carried out and by not clarifying which one is what the writers make up shit as they go which should be adhering to what's already been established. A simple solution imo because whilst your thing could work has one flaw in that if Thinker is getting so arrogant he's only considering the more likely outcomes something as random as Siren being the last Nazi Meta of Earth X who in turns happens to be being hunted by not Earth X's own meta hero but his all too human fiancé who just happens to be exactly who Barry needs at that moment and when they return to Earth-1 Siren just so happens to be able to catch them leaving but know specifically how to keep the breach open long enough to go through but also willingly went through, that's a long shot so it's odd he's predicting those but not more simple and obvious things. Easy fix would simply be having it said he knew about her because he detected the breach and used his tech to monitor the location before and after and witnessed Barry brining out Leo thanks to super techy magic woo hoo he an do but also detected a 2nd arrival which was Siren, so planning for her was simply because he knew she hitched a ride, and it all makes more sense imo because why wouldn't he be able to detect breaches, Cisco uses them and he can block Cisco's vibing, tracking and blocking his breaches is a logical defensive and offensive tactic, and it doesn't make him seem as stupid for being caught off guard or should I say as unreliable, you don't want the big bad showing his cracks too much prior to the final showdown, all it does is lessen the danger to the hero imo, his wife seeing through him is enough of a crack to give no need to be making him inconsistent as well, atleast too me that is, also what are they going to do now keep making him cock up for the next few weeks? or is this a one off just to fit the script and fuck whether it makes sense in the long game? either one sounds crappy imo.
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Post by BexxyJ on Apr 30, 2018 7:23:56 GMT
They still sucked, they just weren't as bad as usual. That's the thing about shit. When you see enough of it it becomes hard to distinguish it from a diamond but if it is brown and round flush it down. Gotham wins for me. That show gets better every week and Sofia. Damn that girl has got it going on and Pyg's plan to make everybody eat his victims was some sick shit but entertaining. We need more shows like Gotham.
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Post by dazz on Apr 30, 2018 15:17:57 GMT
Gotham is really hit and miss for me, I haven't felt the urge to watch it in over a month, even Jerome or Joker or whatever has lost the hook it used to, but when I do get around to it, probably wait till seasons end and binge it all, I'll probably come away liking it, as I usually do.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 11:58:05 GMT
Gotham is really hit and miss for me, I haven't felt the urge to watch it in over a month, even Jerome or Joker or whatever has lost the hook it used to, but when I do get around to it, probably wait till seasons end and binge it all, I'll probably come away liking it, as I usually do. Wow. Really? Have you had time to watch 'Gotham' since you made this post Dazz? 'Gotham' has been our favourite out of the DC TV shows this year and we really liked Season 3 and 4 and are looking forward to the final season. We still have a few more episodes of Season 4 left to watch and the next one is going to be on Monday but the Joker is now in the show and I won't spoil it for you but he wasn't Jerome.
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Post by dazz on Jul 1, 2018 15:00:30 GMT
Nah not yet, I just kind of need to be in the mood, last episode I saw was the one with Penguin & Jerome in Arkham and Penguin tried to kill Jerome which somehow put him on Jerome's good side because he found it funny.
I know who Joker is on the show though if their still not allowed to call him Joker in show then that is a fucking joke, I think at this point I may not catch up with Gotham till nearer S5 so im going in fresh, but then I could get bored next weekend and binge it all then.
It's not even that it's bad but Gotham sometimes just leaves me being just like huh ok that was an hour of TV, I know I don't like nor have I ever liked the Barbra character in this show in anyway, and I dunno if it's just me or does Crystal Reed look a lot different than she did just a few years back? I had to check to make sure it was her at first as I was like WTF is that Allison from Teen Wolf, she looks different, nah cant be her...*google check*...fuck it is her, good job she left TW when she did she aged FAST, no way she could pull of even remotely being 18 anymore...now im rambling again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 11:46:30 GMT
Nah not yet, I just kind of need to be in the mood, last episode I saw was the one with Penguin & Jerome in Arkham and Penguin tried to kill Jerome which somehow put him on Jerome's good side because he found it funny. I know who Joker is on the show though if their still not allowed to call him Joker in show then that is a fucking joke, I think at this point I may not catch up with Gotham till nearer S5 so im going in fresh, but then I could get bored next weekend and binge it all then. It's not even that it's bad but Gotham sometimes just leaves me being just like huh ok that was an hour of TV, I know I don't like nor have I ever liked the Barbra character in this show in anyway, and I dunno if it's just me or does Crystal Reed look a lot different than she did just a few years back? I had to check to make sure it was her at first as I was like WTF is that Allison from Teen Wolf, she looks different, nah cant be her...*google check*...fuck it is her, good job she left TW when she did she aged FAST, no way she could pull of even remotely being 18 anymore...now im rambling again. Oohh. Okay. I remember the episode you are talking about and that was a few weeks ago for us here but I think we still have three or four more episodes to go before we reach the end of Season Four as it is still listed on Monday nights in the Foxtel guide for August. As you could imagine their friendship or more like, alliance doesn’t last that long and the Penguin betrays Jerome in the following episodes ‘cause he knows how insane he is and goes undercover for a short time helps Gordon. They describe the difference between Oswald and Jerome as Oswald being a criminal who only cares about getting rich and having power whereas Jerome wants to cause complete chaos and kill heaps of people and I think that is a good comparison but I am left wondering why the writers of ‘Gotham’ didn’t make the Penguin a collector who loves ships like he does in the comic books, the Arkham games and Adam West show ‘cause it was a big part of his character and why he steals things.
It is silly how ‘Gotham’ can’t call Jeramiah ‘The Joker’ when everybody knows he is the Joker and the block on him having green hair is even more ridiculous and I have no idea how they can enforce such a block ‘cause other characters in movies and TV shows have green hair like Five in ‘Dark Matter’ and to my knowledge Warner Bros don’t own copyright over green hair. I am surprised the showrunners didn’t go with another colour like blue or purple hair or have him change the colour of his hair a few times and end with him saying he likes the look of green or something like that. Other than that I am liking Jerimiah as the Joker so far and there are some other TV shows I have watched over the years where they have had the same actors play other characters and they are not that different but there is a very clear difference between Jeramiah and Jerome with not just the way they act but look.
I was worried when they first revealed the same actor was playing the Joker he wouldn’t be different to Jerome and it would just be a waste of time but I feel Jeramiah is far more dangerous than Jerome ever was ‘cause he is more intelligent and calculated and I’m very interested in seeing where they go with the character in Season 5 and if they will have him start coming out with some of the jokes and gags the character is known for. One big difference in this show which I have mentioned on some of my other posts is I can’t see the show ending without multiple people knowing Bruce is Batman now and I wouldn’t be surprised if they go with Jeremiah knowing Bruce is Batman too ‘cause I have read a few interviews with DC writers who believe the Joker knows Batman is Bruce Wayne but they say he doesn’t tell anybody ‘cause unlike other villains like the Riddler, Black Mask, Killer Croc and Mad Matter who want to know who he is he doesn’t care.
I never saw Crystal in ‘Teen Wolf’ but I think she is gorgeous in ‘Gotham’ and I read something about why she left ‘Teen Wolf’ and they were apparently putting makeup on her to make her look younger in the last few seasons she appeared in so that might explain the difference for you and she said she left ‘cause she wanted to play roles around her real age.
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Post by dazz on Jul 11, 2018 12:49:28 GMT
Thing to me is if you weren't going to let them do the Joker full on then tell them and leave the "Joker" reveal for the season finale, like that's when Batman is truly born and his birth in turn creates the Joker, so like the very last scene of the show is Joker on the streets of Gotham doing something, pan up and Batman is on the rooftops, you hear a scream Batman runs to it and we hear laughing as the credits role, all a single "take" pulled back from Gordons office window where he's the commissioner.
Doing the Jerome to Jeremiah switch is a lame move if he cannot be the full Joker imo, I think a way to set up the Bruce being Batman but no one knowing yet is if they switch up the mythos a little and instead of the typical hero arrives just as character X returns or arrives, have Bruce "leave" Gotham then "die" and he's still really around as The Batman for a few years, and have it be a plan he and Alfred talk about it before hand and Alfred emphasise the strain of Bruce living in practical isolation for maybe years before he can "return", setting up the key part of the Batman character compared to others in that Batman isn't the mask, Bruce Wayne is the persona not the other way around, also I think you can get away with Lucius, Selena and even Gordon knowing about Bruce atleast so long as theres room for doubt for the likes of Penguin and the others imo.
As for Crystal I dunno what it is, maybe it's that or maybe it is she aged or as you said less make up to hide her age, or she could have just stopped trying to look so young, you know could be anything, looking at pics of her I can tell which are of her recently and what are from her time on TW and before, but I cant pinpoint why it's just odd, maybe it's just how she dresses, obviously on Gotham she's playing a woman in charge and in TW she was a rebelous teen, so those are very different looks, plus it's been 3 years, people do change even in that short a time.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Jul 13, 2018 20:41:56 GMT
Nah not yet, I just kind of need to be in the mood, last episode I saw was the one with Penguin & Jerome in Arkham and Penguin tried to kill Jerome which somehow put him on Jerome's good side because he found it funny. I know who Joker is on the show though if their still not allowed to call him Joker in show then that is a fucking joke, I think at this point I may not catch up with Gotham till nearer S5 so im going in fresh, but then I could get bored next weekend and binge it all then. It's not even that it's bad but Gotham sometimes just leaves me being just like huh ok that was an hour of TV, I know I don't like nor have I ever liked the Barbra character in this show in anyway, and I dunno if it's just me or does Crystal Reed look a lot different than she did just a few years back? I had to check to make sure it was her at first as I was like WTF is that Allison from Teen Wolf, she looks different, nah cant be her...*google check*...fuck it is her, good job she left TW when she did she aged FAST, no way she could pull of even remotely being 18 anymore...now im rambling again. Oohh. Okay. I remember the episode you are talking about and that was a few weeks ago for us here but I think we still have three or four more episodes to go before we reach the end of Season Four as it is still listed on Monday nights in the Foxtel guide for August. As you could imagine their friendship or more like, alliance doesn’t last that long and the Penguin betrays Jerome in the following episodes ‘cause he knows how insane he is and goes undercover for a short time helps Gordon. They describe the difference between Oswald and Jerome as Oswald being a criminal who only cares about getting rich and having power whereas Jerome wants to cause complete chaos and kill heaps of people and I think that is a good comparison but I am left wondering why the writers of ‘Gotham’ didn’t make the Penguin a collector who loves ships like he does in the comic books, the Arkham games and Adam West show ‘cause it was a big part of his character and why he steals things.
It is silly how ‘Gotham’ can’t call Jeramiah ‘The Joker’ when everybody knows he is the Joker and the block on him having green hair is even more ridiculous and I have no idea how they can enforce such a block ‘cause other characters in movies and TV shows have green hair like Five in ‘Dark Matter’ and to my knowledge Warner Bros don’t own copyright over green hair. I am surprised the showrunners didn’t go with another colour like blue or purple hair or have him change the colour of his hair a few times and end with him saying he likes the look of green or something like that. Other than that I am liking Jerimiah as the Joker so far and there are some other TV shows I have watched over the years where they have had the same actors play other characters and they are not that different but there is a very clear difference between Jeramiah and Jerome with not just the way they act but look.
I was worried when they first revealed the same actor was playing the Joker he wouldn’t be different to Jerome and it would just be a waste of time but I feel Jeramiah is far more dangerous than Jerome ever was ‘cause he is more intelligent and calculated and I’m very interested in seeing where they go with the character in Season 5 and if they will have him start coming out with some of the jokes and gags the character is known for. One big difference in this show which I have mentioned on some of my other posts is I can’t see the show ending without multiple people knowing Bruce is Batman now and I wouldn’t be surprised if they go with Jeremiah knowing Bruce is Batman too ‘cause I have read a few interviews with DC writers who believe the Joker knows Batman is Bruce Wayne but they say he doesn’t tell anybody ‘cause unlike other villains like the Riddler, Black Mask, Killer Croc and Mad Matter who want to know who he is he doesn’t care.
I never saw Crystal in ‘Teen Wolf’ but I think she is gorgeous in ‘Gotham’ and I read something about why she left ‘Teen Wolf’ and they were apparently putting makeup on her to make her look younger in the last few seasons she appeared in so that might explain the difference for you and she said she left ‘cause she wanted to play roles around her real age.
I don't think it's so much that they have control over the concept of green hair, so much as the combination of that with the other physical attributes that would visually evoke the distinct identity of The Joker. It sort of goes back to the discussion about copyrights. A prime example might be performing a musical production versus singing a song from the same musical. You can sing a song from a musical without paying for the full performance rights of the play, or under certain circumstances without paying anything at all; because generally the venue will have paid for broad license to companies like BMI or ASCAP for non-dramatic use of music in their venue, like karaoke or bringing in a band or even just having a jukebox. But, if you incorporate costumes or use dialogue from the show along with the music, that combination changes the nature of the performance to what would be considered a dramatic performance, which would not be covered by the same type of license and you'd have to license the entire musical to legally perform it that way. Take away a distinctive element from the Joker, like his green hair and the actual character name, and he could hypothetically be any other knock-off. It may seem like splitting hairs, and it is, if it's open secret that this is who it's supposed to be, but both parties leave enough room for plausible deniability; where either the show could say (again) that this person everyone thought was the Joker really wasn't; or for whatever purposes Warner Bros have to disavow a legitimate connection between this and the character they own, they can do that too, by pointing to the ways the character differs. It's not unlike Jimmy turning out not to be Jimmy on Smallville.
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Post by General Kenobi on Jul 17, 2018 14:17:44 GMT
Maybe they're trying to have their cake and eat it too?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 13:28:48 GMT
Thing to me is if you weren't going to let them do the Joker full on then tell them and leave the "Joker" reveal for the season finale, like that's when Batman is truly born and his birth in turn creates the Joker, so like the very last scene of the show is Joker on the streets of Gotham doing something, pan up and Batman is on the rooftops, you hear a scream Batman runs to it and we hear laughing as the credits role, all a single "take" pulled back from Gordons office window where he's the commissioner. Doing the Jerome to Jeremiah switch is a lame move if he cannot be the full Joker imo, I think a way to set up the Bruce being Batman but no one knowing yet is if they switch up the mythos a little and instead of the typical hero arrives just as character X returns or arrives, have Bruce "leave" Gotham then "die" and he's still really around as The Batman for a few years, and have it be a plan he and Alfred talk about it before hand and Alfred emphasise the strain of Bruce living in practical isolation for maybe years before he can "return", setting up the key part of the Batman character compared to others in that Batman isn't the mask, Bruce Wayne is the persona not the other way around, also I think you can get away with Lucius, Selena and even Gordon knowing about Bruce atleast so long as theres room for doubt for the likes of Penguin and the others imo. As for Crystal I dunno what it is, maybe it's that or maybe it is she aged or as you said less make up to hide her age, or she could have just stopped trying to look so young, you know could be anything, looking at pics of her I can tell which are of her recently and what are from her time on TW and before, but I cant pinpoint why it's just odd, maybe it's just how she dresses, obviously on Gotham she's playing a woman in charge and in TW she was a rebelous teen, so those are very different looks, plus it's been 3 years, people do change even in that short a time. Yeah. I can see where you are coming from and I am still surprised they did it to be honest 'cause I was under the impression we wouldn't see the real Joker until the last few episodes as I mentioned before but what has me even more confused now is why they have brought in Jeremiah as the Joker now and Harvey Dent who appeared in the show before is nowhere to be seen. Why write Harvey Dent off when he was supposed to be somewhat of a hero in 'Gotham' that worked with Batman and Jim Gordon before he become Two Face since they already aged him and I don't think there is anything that is preventing them from actually making him Two Face and giving him the look and name? I mean they could have given Harvey Dent a bigger role in this show and had him work with Jim through seasons 3 and 4 but he just disappeared. I don't get that and maybe it had something to do with the actor 'cause I recall reading in old interviews he was supposed to be more prominent in the show and he faded but as much as I love 'Gotham' I am surprised over some of the choices they have made with villains on the show like Poison Ivy and Mr Freeze.
I also think there were other Batman villains that were the perfect fit for this show that they left out like the Calendar Man who could have been a good villain for Jim to face in a Christmas episode and then had him come back for a Halloween episode later. I personally think they should keep the Joker's identity a mystery which is why I am against them making a Joker origins movie 'cause I have a bad feeling they are going to do what they were planning on doing with the 'Nightmare On Elm Street' prequel where it turned out Freddy Kreuger was innocent and the parents burned the wrong person which doesn't line up with the character at all 'cause Freddy is the type that enjoys killing children and needs their souls where that would have made him a revenge killer who would be more concerned about getting the parents back for murdering him. While they obviously won't do that with the Joker I worry they will do something similar that is not going to lineup with the character at all which is why I mentioned it. This version in 'Gotham' has changed a lot of it as it is not having him as the original Red Hood first and I think they should have held off but at the same time enjoying what they do with him so far not looking at the continuity of everything.
I like your idea about Bruce with the secret identity and I think I would like it better if they end with both Bruce and Selina knowing they are Batman and Catwoman and have Catwoman start out as a hero (an antihero that still breaks the law) instead of a villain that becomes a hero later. It would make more sense in my opinion to go that way looking at how they have portrayed her in this show.
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Post by General Kenobi on Jul 26, 2018 10:22:36 GMT
Selina in this show has always been more of an antihero then an outright villain. So I don't see them changing that in the last season.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 11:41:58 GMT
Selina in this show has always been more of an antihero then an outright villain. So I don't see them changing that in the last season. I don't think they would make her into a flatout villain towards the end of the show either especially with how close they have made her to Bruce and I think she will be an antihero at the end who helps Bruce fight villains and saves people but still steals from people much like she does in the latest comic books.
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Post by BexxyJ on Aug 17, 2018 8:12:02 GMT
Selina in this show has always been more of an antihero then an outright villain. So I don't see them changing that in the last season. I don't think they would make her into a flatout villain towards the end of the show either especially with how close they have made her to Bruce and I think she will be an antihero at the end who helps Bruce fight villains and saves people but still steals from people much like she does in the latest comic books. If they make Selina into an evil supervillain at the end I won't be watching it anymore.
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Post by General Kenobi on Aug 17, 2018 10:48:53 GMT
But if it's the end no one will be watching anymore!
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