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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 5, 2018 20:00:23 GMT
I admit haven't read all books just chapters here and there but for argument sake let's just stick to the show and cersei no matter how evil her actions appear I'm trying to say she has been consistent while Dany from season 8 is very different from season 1 , all characters have gone through some epiphany or experience for example Jon snow changed too but he still remains noble true to his word , Dany went from saving slaves to beheading them ,doesn't listen to her advisors takes her dragons goes off starts burning people even after Tyrion pleaded with her not to she has changed every season for the worse and D&D cut out the scene Dany going into rage when she lost one of her dragons blaming Jon snow for everything , why did they do that ? Maybe they didn't want to give out a plot of Dany losing it , cersei has done bad things but she showed season 8 was willing to work but then Jon had to swear to Dany Queen of westeros front of cersei who wouldn't get mad ? I'm not taking cerseis side because she has done some despiciple things but I don't think she is the mad queen . My first reaction was to think that young characters had a more drastic evolution than the older ones. Of course the children like Arya, Sansa or Daenerys go through a full maturation process while those from an older generation like Cersei or Jaime do not. Still there are evolutions there too. Even the Hound is shown to evolve. Cersei improves in the show as she gains power then learns to use it. She moves from reactive frustration ("it's all fallen on me" in S2) to an active role, makes terrible mistakes and learns from them. Her path leads her from emotionally charged drivers to a more sober, calculated view of things and she embraces the necessary politics, searching for alliances even with those she fought earlier, like the Tyrells in S6. Daenerys goes through the opposite as it seems she mostly learns to misuse her power with time. Daenerys goes from the well-meaning liberator of slaves to the disappointed tyrant who thinks less of people the more she gets to know them. She turns into "The Dragon" telling others they "can live in her new world or die in their old one". All she learns from her mistakes is that politics are too difficult a thing after all so fuck it, burn it all, bend the knee or die. I would agree with this excatly when she said live in her new world or die in their old one,she lost me , and let's say Dany does win and it is in power how the heck is she going to control her dragons from not eacting I nnocent children ?? Why was that dragonpit created in the first place ? Didn't they keep dragons chained there ? She has no plan for that I guess it's exciting going to war and taking what she feels its rightful hers but she too like others has no plan what to do once she gets in power.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 6, 2018 0:12:38 GMT
I would agree with this excatly when she said live in her new world or die in their old one,she lost me , and let's say Dany does win and it is in power how the heck is she going to control her dragons from not eacting I nnocent children ?? Why was that dragonpit created in the first place ? Didn't they keep dragons chained there ? She has no plan for that I guess it's exciting going to war and taking what she feels its rightful hers but she too like others has no plan what to do once she gets in power. The bloody beasts would outlive her anyway and become part of succession struggles. Bringing dragons back to Westeros was just another recipe for long term disaster supported by Varys who says he "serves the realm" by bringing war to it. No matter which way you look at it, this crew is the bad one. They had Daario say it openly in S6E06: "You weren't made to sit on a chair in a palace. You're a conqueror, Daenerys Stormborn". It's been on the wall for a long time and her dumb fans refuse to see it.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 7, 2018 23:54:52 GMT
I would agree with this excatly when she said live in her new world or die in their old one,she lost me , and let's say Dany does win and it is in power how the heck is she going to control her dragons from not eacting I nnocent children ?? Why was that dragonpit created in the first place ? Didn't they keep dragons chained there ? She has no plan for that I guess it's exciting going to war and taking what she feels its rightful hers but she too like others has no plan what to do once she gets in power. The bloody beasts would outlive her anyway and become part of succession struggles. Bringing dragons back to Westeros was just another recipe for long term disaster supported by Varys who says he "serves the realm" by bringing war to it. No matter which way you look at it, this crew is the bad one. They had Daario say it openly in S6E06: "You weren't made to sit on a chair in a palace. You're a conqueror, Daenerys Stormborn". It's been on the wall for a long time and her dumb fans refuse to see it. Yes I will never forget Daarios face when she was giving the speech to the drothraki sitting on her dragon drogo what she was planning to do , he looked horrified , concerned , scared ,some fans started getting suspicious that maybe she was going mad but majority didn't even want to discuss it and the feminists say yay girl power. I'm a female I can care less about all that , in their mind the Targaryen restoration will happen ,you know if Dario indeed is head of the golden company cersei has aligned with and he helps out end daenyrys reign all her fans will say he was a traitor , that's another thing that bugs me the way she treated Daario like peice of trash she used him was sleeping with him and then she didn't want him anymore because it would look bad if she came with a lover , if I had three dragons I wouldn't care less if I had my boyfriend with me , so that's another thing Dany first season wouldn't do , she would have been so lucky to have met Daario in season 1 instead of being sold to the drothraki .
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 8, 2018 7:32:31 GMT
I will never forget Daarios face when she was giving the speech to the drothraki sitting on her dragon drogo what she was planning to do , he looked horrified , concerned , scared ,some fans started getting suspicious that maybe she was going mad but majority didn't even want to discuss it and the feminists say yay girl power. I'm a female I can care less about all that , in their mind the Targaryen restoration will happen ,you know if Dario indeed is head of the golden company cersei has aligned with and he helps out end daenyrys reign all her fans will say he was a traitor , that's another thing that bugs me the way she treated Daario like peice of trash she used him was sleeping with him and then she didn't want him anymore because it would look bad if she came with a lover , if I had three dragons I wouldn't care less if I had my boyfriend with me , so that's another thing Dany first season wouldn't do , she would have been so lucky to have met Daario in season 1 instead of being sold to the drothraki . The speech to the Dothraki was the first time a director explicitly commented on Daenerys becoming an ominous figure. Jack Bender indirectly compared the scene to Nazi rallies: In that speech, she was repeating most of what Drogo had said in S1E07, leaving out only the raping of women so feminists who want to see men down at any cost would still be on board. She has indeed become the hero of the dumb and violent who just want to replace the fantasised domination they believe to be subjected to by their own.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 8, 2018 21:39:02 GMT
I will never forget Daarios face when she was giving the speech to the drothraki sitting on her dragon drogo what she was planning to do , he looked horrified , concerned , scared ,some fans started getting suspicious that maybe she was going mad but majority didn't even want to discuss it and the feminists say yay girl power. I'm a female I can care less about all that , in their mind the Targaryen restoration will happen ,you know if Dario indeed is head of the golden company cersei has aligned with and he helps out end daenyrys reign all her fans will say he was a traitor , that's another thing that bugs me the way she treated Daario like peice of trash she used him was sleeping with him and then she didn't want him anymore because it would look bad if she came with a lover , if I had three dragons I wouldn't care less if I had my boyfriend with me , so that's another thing Dany first season wouldn't do , she would have been so lucky to have met Daario in season 1 instead of being sold to the drothraki . The speech to the Dothraki was the first time a director explicitly commented on Daenerys becoming an ominous figure. Jack Bender indirectly compared the scene to Nazi rallies: In that speech, she was repeating most of what Drogo had said in S1E07, leaving out only the raping of women so feminists who want to see men down at any cost would still be on board. She has indeed become the hero of the dumb and violent who just want to replace the fantasised domination they believe to be subjected to by their own. Given that GRMM is such a feminist and Liberal with his views I'm surprised he wrote one of his precious characters in that manner like director stated ,I agree , it's true she was repeating what khal was saying I remember she was looking at him with admiration it's too bad I started as a big fan of danys and I slowly started seeing all these things but last season confirmed it for me
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 9, 2018 3:31:17 GMT
The speech to the Dothraki was the first time a director explicitly commented on Daenerys becoming an ominous figure. Jack Bender indirectly compared the scene to Nazi rallies: In that speech, she was repeating most of what Drogo had said in S1E07, leaving out only the raping of women so feminists who want to see men down at any cost would still be on board. She has indeed become the hero of the dumb and violent who just want to replace the fantasised domination they believe to be subjected to by their own. Given that GRMM is such a feminist and Liberal with his views I'm surprised he wrote one of his precious characters in that manner like director stated ,I agree , it's true she was repeating what khal was saying I remember she was looking at him with admiration it's too bad I started as a big fan of danys and I slowly started seeing all these things but last season confirmed it for me Book-Daenerys has not reached that point yet. There are signs that she could but the show has altered characters in significant ways so comparisons with what we think GRRM might or might not want are losing relevance. Still, turning characters into something unexpected is something he does and you were supposed to like Daenerys only to be faced with an ugly side later. The same happens with book-Tyrion who is developing seriously unsavoury traits after escaping King's Landing and show-Arya also has become repulsive while show-Theon is being made into a redemption figure. Did I ever say this story was 100% predictable? What you expect will not happen, what you like will not deserve it and what you hate will prove you wrong. Now I suppose Cersei will save the world or something
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 16, 2019 6:18:39 GMT
Just found an old thread… maybe it's worth bumping one last time. And quoting myself in the process from one of its posts: "Daenerys goes through the opposite as it seems she mostly learns to misuse her power with time. Daenerys goes from the well-meaning liberator of slaves to the disappointed tyrant who thinks less of people the more she gets to know them. She turns into "The Dragon" telling others they "can live in her new world or die in their old one". All she learns from her mistakes is that politics are too difficult a thing after all so fuck it, burn it all, bend the knee or die."
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 16, 2019 16:40:47 GMT
Just found an old thread… maybe it's worth bumping one last time. And quoting myself in the process from one of its posts: "Daenerys goes through the opposite as it seems she mostly learns to misuse her power with time. Daenerys goes from the well-meaning liberator of slaves to the disappointed tyrant who thinks less of people the more she gets to know them. She turns into "The Dragon" telling others they "can live in her new world or die in their old one". All she learns from her mistakes is that politics are too difficult a thing after all so fuck it, burn it all, bend the knee or die." classic thread we both could see it but others couldn't , a poster above seto said D&D was planning having the heroine and hero of the story by side by side thats the kind of ending some fans expected . shes a a tyrrant no question about it its too bad some fans expected her to do what she did last weeks episode to realize it
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 19, 2019 16:05:28 GMT
I just came upon a quote from S8E05 which explains Daenerys' mindset quite logically and tied in with what she told Hizdahr about cities returning to the dirt for "a good reason". She further speaks of "mercy towards future generations", in typical "progressive" speech. Here once again, we are not dealing with madness but with the very well documented revolutionary position demanding radical cleansing. Daenerys is another Robespierre, another Lenin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot and I am probably forgetting a few.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 19, 2019 18:37:54 GMT
I just came upon a quote from S8E05 which explains Daenerys' mindset quite logically and tied in with what she told Hizdahr about cities returning to the dirt for "a good reason". She further speaks of "mercy towards future generations", in typical "progressive" speech. Here once again, we are not dealing with madness but with the very well documented revolutionary position demanding radical cleansing. Daenerys is another Robespierre, another Lenin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot and I am probably forgetting a few.
exactly she wanted to start ruling "fresh" like others you mentioned the two faces of dany
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