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Post by politicidal on May 10, 2018 2:09:47 GMT
Which leaves WB/DC with a problem, or more specifically, Ava DuVernay with a problem. How to make Darkseid stand out if he does make an appearance? With a lot of big time world-threatening villains in superhero movies, it seems they're moving away from megalomaniacs to the crazed ideologue who thinks they're simply right when everyone else is wrong. Whether it be Zod or Ego or Ultron or now Thanos, it's not necessarily a bad creative decision. But when they're all like that, it gets boring. And they certainly cannot risk Darkseid being like Steppenwolf again.
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Post by sdrew13163 on May 10, 2018 4:37:14 GMT
That's a good point. They can't just copy Thanos. I think their best bet would be to make him a little more purely evil and menacing. Thanos was, of course, menacing and evil 90% of the time, but he had a soft side. In other words, Darkseid should only show off his dark side (eh?).
Then it's just up to good writers and a good story to make him feel a lot less two dimensional. Villains like this have worked before (Joker, Bane, Hans Gruber, Sauron, Chigurh), but it's not easy to pull off.
The one thing I liked about Steppenwolf was how militant and straight-forward he was in combat. He was just hopping around and crushing Amazonians with his axe and fists, no questions asked. I hope that's how Darkseid is, but with more depth in motive and plan (obviously).
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Post by bluerisk on May 10, 2018 9:57:40 GMT
Only evil for the sake of evil...I hate that! Why not giving them a legit agenda, an ideology, teaching, belief system one can at least logical follow (or even partly agree to - in history there is nothing like black and white). They tried it with Thonas but failed imho. Heath Ledger's Joker was going in that direction...or a villain who goes after the rich who have implemented a system that turned our democracies into a global plutocracy in which lobbyist dictate our politicians the laws and loopholes within on the behalf of their employees: the rich, Wall Street, cooperate America, the City of London, the Kremlin etc. pp.; the entire world has rich people who live on the tears, sweat and blood of the deprived masses - killing even our planet by giving a shit about the environment. And I don't speak of this global warming hoax (climate has always changed and this change is within the changes of the last 2000 years and the last century saw an extraordinary sun activity that is slowing down to normal) I mean de-forestation, the over fishing of the sea, the pollution with acid, oil, chemicals, pesticides, plastic and other kind of junk, the extermination of entire insect population with pesticides in the agriculture, the overuse of natural water resources (=> California, Aral sea). Mining and the damaged to the environment, the using up of limited resources. Most if not all could be prevent with more care, we have in general the technology (purification system, prohibition to conduct agriculture in certain areas or to use only a certain extent of ground water, recycling etc. pp.) but it would hurt the profit of the rich. V for Vengeance was an anti-hero, no villain...for the system he was a terrorist. A villain who has a good point and a strong mandate for his action...maybe more an anti-hero...the did this to some extent in the Avengers civil war. But Cap. useless was dodging the corrupt system, not attacking it. Is the Congress really serving the interest of the people anymore, or has it become the enemy of the people, and the champion of Wall Street? But Hollywood is part of the system: Panem et circenses.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on May 10, 2018 17:15:30 GMT
I wish they followed the "courting Death" stuff from the comics. The whole "killing x people for the greater good" thing is getting a little played out. That said, movie Thanos was pretty solid, especially compared to Steppenwolf and Apocalypse. That sacrifice scene was surprisingly moving.
They definitely can't half-ass it with Darkseid. Doesn't he have a Game of Thronesian backstory and some mommy issues? Might want to tap into that.
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Post by politicidal on May 10, 2018 18:04:39 GMT
I wish they followed the "courting Death" stuff from the comics. The whole "killing x people for the greater good" thing is getting a little played out. That said, movie Thanos was pretty solid, especially compared to Steppenwolf and Apocalypse. That sacrifice scene was surprisingly moving. They definitely can't half-ass it with Darkseid. Doesn't he have a Game of Thronesian backstory and some mommy issues? Might want to tap into that. Yes I was thinking that too. The whole war between Apokolips and New Genesis has real potential as this space operatic epic. So he could also be presented as a general trying to win the war and make peace on his terms.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on May 10, 2018 22:15:16 GMT
I'll have to read up on Darkseid. Maybe there's something in the comics they can do for the films to make him different from Thanks?
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Post by hobowar on May 10, 2018 23:30:09 GMT
Marvel showed DC how it's done. Now DC are going to show us how it shouldn't be done.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 11, 2018 2:39:25 GMT
Thanos was pretty solid, especially compared to Steppenwolf and Apocalypse. That sacrifice scene was surprisingly moving. Not really. The sacrifice was a rip-off of The Illiad.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on May 11, 2018 6:40:03 GMT
Thanos was pretty solid, especially compared to Steppenwolf and Apocalypse. That sacrifice scene was surprisingly moving. Not really. The sacrifice was a rip-off of The Illiad. The Illiad is soooooooooo old its pretty pointless to claim something is ripping it off, its one of the most famous stories in all of history too many people to count have used its storytelling devices in their own work.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on May 11, 2018 12:46:17 GMT
Thanos was pretty solid, especially compared to Steppenwolf and Apocalypse. That sacrifice scene was surprisingly moving. Not really. The sacrifice was a rip-off of The Illiad. Dude, you're the only one trying to make this argument, but it's getting old and you're not convincing anyone, and it certainly isn't hurting Infinity War either. And you just Google search for it anyways just to have something to nitpick about Infinity War. Because you're a pathetic troll who's upset DC couldn't even make a half decent Justice League film. All your points and arguments have been countered and refuted. Ignoring that saying they haven't doesn't make you right. It just makes you even more pathetic because you can't accept being wrong. Just give it up already
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Post by Winter_King on May 11, 2018 13:02:00 GMT
The whole "killing x people for the greater good" thing is getting a little played out. That said, movie Thanos was pretty solid, especially compared to Steppenwolf and Apocalypse. That sacrifice scene was surprisingly moving. Agreed. I felt that Thanos was the best thing about Infinity War and in my opinion the best villain of the MCU (excluding tv shows). Better than Loki.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on May 11, 2018 13:18:30 GMT
Thanos was pretty solid, especially compared to Steppenwolf and Apocalypse. That sacrifice scene was surprisingly moving. Not really. The sacrifice was a rip-off of The Illiad. sacrificing your children for power is a very old theme, used many times.
In German/Norse mythology Wotan (Odin) puts his most beloved daughter (the valkyrie Brünhild) into a death-like sleep on a mountain top after she threatened his power; and he surround her with a huge firewall created by the God Loki (Loge).
In Richard Wagner's Walküre music-drama Wotan's last farewell to his daughter is accompanied by the musical theme desribing the renouncing of love in favor of power.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 11, 2018 17:07:43 GMT
Not really. The sacrifice was a rip-off of The Illiad. Dude, you're the only one trying to make this argument, but it's getting old and you're not convincing anyone, and it certainly isn't hurting Infinity War either. And you just Google search for it anyways Nope, didn't have to search for it. The Illiad is the most well-known story in Greek mythology. The sacrifice scene was even shown in the series Troy: Fall of a City. So it's a well-known story that most people are familiar with and that Infinity War ripped off.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on May 11, 2018 17:24:57 GMT
Dude, you're the only one trying to make this argument, but it's getting old and you're not convincing anyone, and it certainly isn't hurting Infinity War either. And you just Google search for it anyways Nope, didn't have to search for it. The Illiad is the most well-known story in Greek mythology. The sacrifice scene was even shown in the series Troy: Fall of a City. So it's a well-known story that most people are familiar with and that Infinity War ripped off. Dude, it's not a rip off, just a homage if anything. Either way, films take inspiration from Greek Mythology all the time. Not to mention, I don't see even the detractors of this film bringing it up other than you. No one cares other than you. Just a nitpick from because you can't come up with anything logical to complain about. The argument is already old. Try harder next time
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Post by Larcen26 on May 11, 2018 17:31:29 GMT
He should be more stoic and no-nonsense.
Thanos played with The Hulk a little, Darkseid wouldn't bother.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 11, 2018 18:14:27 GMT
Thanos is better than other MCU villains, which isn't saying much since all other MCU villains have been awful and lame. But Thanos is still not a great villain.
1st, Thanos sparing Starlord, Iron Man, and Scarlett Witch just because they stood up to him? WTF? That's really lame. Great villains don't hesitate to kill those who oppose them or don't obey their orders. When Hans Gruber told the CEO of Nakatoma to open the vault and the CEO said he can't and said "You'll just have to kill me", Hans didn't say "Brave man, I'm going to spare your life for standing up to me." Hans said "OK" and shot him in the head. No hesitation. Because that's what great villains do.
2nd, aside from ripping off The Illiad, the sacrifice scene was put in to try to make Thanos look more humane and sympathetic. 1 MCU fan even wrote on another thread that Thanos doesn't enjoy killing. That's also really lame. Great villains aren't humane or sympathetic. Hans Gruber was a greedy asshole who was willing to kill many innocent people to get rich. Nothing sympathetic about that. The Joker was an evil and psychotic sociopath who enjoyed killing innocent people. Nothing sympathetic about that. Great villains enjoy killing innocent people and have no remorse or regret about it and aren't supposed to look humane or sympathetic.
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NormanClature
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Post by NormanClature on May 11, 2018 18:24:02 GMT
Thanos is better than other MCU villains, which isn't saying much since all other MCU villains have been awful and lame. But Thanos is still not a great villain. 1st, Thanos sparing Starlord, Iron Man, and Scarlett Witch just because they stood up to him? WTF? That's really lame. Great villains don't hesitate to kill those who oppose them or don't obey their orders. When Hans Gruber told the CEO of Nakatoma to open the vault and the CEO said he can't and said "You'll just have to kill me", Hans didn't say "Brave man, I'm going to spare your life for standing up to me." Hans said "OK" and shot him in the head. No hesitation. Because that's what great villains do. 2nd, aside from ripping off The Illiad, the sacrifice scene was put in to try to make Thanos look more humane and sympathetic. 1 MCU fan even wrote on another thread that Thanos doesn't enjoy killing. That's also really lame. Great villains aren't humane or sympathetic. Hans Gruber was a greedy asshole who was willing to kill many innocent people for money. Nothing sympathetic about that. The Joker was an evil ad psychotic sociopath who enjoyed killing innocent people. Nothing sympathetic about that. Great villains enjoy killing innocent people and have no remorse or regret about it and aren't supposed to look humane or sympathetic. Is Steppenwolf a superior villain to Thanos?
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Post by moviebuffbrad on May 11, 2018 22:56:42 GMT
Thanos was pretty solid, especially compared to Steppenwolf and Apocalypse. That sacrifice scene was surprisingly moving. Not really. The sacrifice was a rip-off of The Illiad. Well, in all fairness, Snyder's trilogy also "ripped off" a two thousand year old sacrifice story.
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Post by Skaathar on May 12, 2018 0:20:46 GMT
DC would be smart to use a few different villains for the next few years. Don't release Darkseid till the hype of Thanos has died down. If they release him too early he'll be simply compared to Thanos and that's not a winning scenario for DC.
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Post by PreachCaleb on May 14, 2018 16:00:56 GMT
I'd say a good approach for Darkseid is too keep in mind he's worshiped as a god. Playing off that aspect would work well. Show that his followers love their leader.
And highlight his lieutenants. The Black Order was cool but sadly got taken out after only one movie. Show off Granny Goodness and her Furies. Canto. Kalibak. Vermin Vundabar.
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