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Post by darkpast on May 26, 2018 4:37:53 GMT
TFA 2 Billion R1 1B TLJ 1.3 SOLO 500m+
Star Wars has its own Justice League
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Post by shinnickneth on May 26, 2018 6:05:07 GMT
I'll never forget (or forgive) the way they've treated Luke Skywalker, Han Solo (the real one), Leia Organa, and the Droids. You don't humiliate, disrespect, and punish our heroes after 40 years and expect the fans to come crawling back for more. We're not masochists.
Apparently, others haven't forgotten either. Good. I'm glad.
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Post by darkpast on May 26, 2018 6:19:18 GMT
I'll never forget (or forgive) the way they've treated Luke Skywalker, Han Solo (the real one), Leia Organa, and the Droids. You don't humiliate, disrespect, and punish our heroes after 40 years and expect the fans to come crawling back for more. We're not masochists. Apparently, others haven't forgotten either. Good. I'm glad. the others were forgivable if they moved the story foward, but not the assassination of Luke
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Post by shinnickneth on May 26, 2018 7:01:01 GMT
the others were forgivable if they moved the story foward, but not the assassination of Luke We'll have to agree to disagree (sorry...overused saying but it fits here) on the treatment of the others outside of Luke. Them turning Han/Leia into terrible parents, breaking-up, and regressing in character development to pre-Episode 4 life was abysmal writing. It's like they didn't know how to write for Leia/Han as a couple and just decided to split them up instead. It would have been far more interesting to see a new phase in both of their lives as a married couple or at least engaged after all those years. The Droids were so underused that it's a crime. They were the first major "good guys" we meet in the franchise in Episode 4. R2-D2 in the OT would do anything to help his human friends in Episode 1-6. On many occasions, he's the saving grace between doom and victory. When we first meet him in Episode 4, he's set on a mission and orders C-3PO around to get Leia's message to Obi-Wan. In the new movies, R2 is regulated to a background character for the majority of two movies. He chooses to be shut-off. That's not R2-D2. R2 would help his friends like always - especially ones he served for so many years. He wouldn't give up on them. C-3PO only gets 1-2 lines in two movies. Disney just tossed in the red arm so they could sell a new C-3PO toy. Otherwise, according to what little time he gets in the new movies, there wouldn't be any context for a new figurine (i.e. Like kids could get a C-3PO figurine from Episode 5 after he gets blown to bits in Cloud City, C-3PO tied up in the Ewok village, etc.)...he's so absent from the story!
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Post by anthonyrocks on May 26, 2018 9:35:07 GMT
I keep saying it and it is 100 Percent True!
The "STAR WARS" Franchise took a MAJOR Negative Hit the Moment that "STAR WARS" Fans decided that they had the right to tell DISNEY what it could and could not do with it's "STAR WARS" Movies!
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on May 26, 2018 10:54:33 GMT
To be fair a large portion of the fanbase have been vocal about the solo film being unnecessary.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 26, 2018 11:21:40 GMT
I keep saying it and it is 100 Percent True! The " STAR WARS" Franchise took a MAJOR Negative Hit the Moment that " STAR WARS" Fans decided that they had the right to tell DISNEY what it could and could not do with it's " STAR WARS" Movies! This has been happening since 1997, a full fifteen years before Disney bought it. Arguably since 1983.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2018 15:44:54 GMT
I keep saying it and it is 100 Percent True! The " STAR WARS" Franchise took a MAJOR Negative Hit the Moment that " STAR WARS" Fans decided that they had the right to tell DISNEY what it could and could not do with it's " STAR WARS" Movies! The fanbase did the same thing to Lucas with the prequels. It already supported "a MAJOR negative hit".
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Post by shinnickneth on May 26, 2018 17:44:05 GMT
I keep saying it and it is 100 Percent True! The "STAR WARS" Franchise took a MAJOR Negative Hit the Moment that "STAR WARS" Fans decided that they had the right to tell DISNEY what it could and could not do with it's "STAR WARS" Movies! That's capitalism and a free market. When customers don't like the product, they let the company know through online reviews and withholding their money. It's no different in this case. Star Wars fans are the potential customers, the movies are the product. Look, they can do whatever they want with the Star Wars franchise. No one can stop them here or anywhere. However, Star Wars fans in turn can do whatever they want with their hard-earned money.
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Post by CrepedCrusader on Jun 1, 2018 2:28:44 GMT
I'll never forget (or forgive) the way they've treated Luke Skywalker, Han Solo (the real one), Leia Organa, and the Droids. You don't humiliate, disrespect, and punish our heroes after 40 years and expect the fans to come crawling back for more. We're not masochists. Apparently, others haven't forgotten either. Good. I'm glad. They didn't dsrespect any of those characters. They killed Han because Ford didn't want to do more than onemovie. As for Luke, I know it would be nice to have a fairy tale story where he was nothing but good and perfect (and yet somehow not a Mary Sue?), but they showed him as a flawed man who made mistakes, and paid dearly for them.
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Post by shinnickneth on Jun 1, 2018 11:03:10 GMT
They didn't dsrespect any of those characters. They killed Han because Ford didn't want to do more than onemovie. As for Luke, I know it would be nice to have a fairy tale story where he was nothing but good and perfect (and yet somehow not a Mary Sue?), but they showed him as a flawed man who made mistakes, and paid dearly for them. It was underwhelming to kill off Han in the same movie they brought him back back in, but I understood what you said. I knew the position Disney was put in with him Harrison coming back to Star Wars. It was part of the reason why I excused a lot of my issues with the movie. I knew they had to deal with a reluctant actor there. Not a problem. The part that was a problem was them splitting Han/Leia up and making them terrible parents. Also, the whole having Han killed by his own son was pathetic. In terms of Luke, they didn't have to kill him off. The actor loved the fandom, loved the character, and loved being part of the franchise. Mark would have happily done a whole bunch of movies as Luke. Luke wasn't perfect. He did have trouble with patience and judging a book (Yoda) by his cover in Episode 5, but he learned from Obi-Wan/Yoda's lessons. He grew, he matured. Rian Johnson decided to throw that all out by making Luke some kind of grumpy, neanderthal whose motivation makes no sense from Episodes 4-7 to 8: - Luke claims to want the Jedi to end but he's found at the end of Episode 7 wearing white Jedi robes... 30 years later.
- Luke leaves a map in Episode 7 for people to find his location, yet he then says he doesn't want anything to do with anyone. Then WHY did he leave it in the first place? That map got a lot of people killed at the start of Episode 7 (including a whole village of people), endangered the lives' of Leia/the Droids/Chewbacca, weakened The Resistance's cause, and got Han Solo killed. If he felt so responsible for everything going so wrong, it was idiotic to put more people up for the slaughter. - Luke says he wants the Jedi to end and he's gone to the island to die. Then why actively hide from Snoke/Kylo Ren who are the only 2 people actively wanting him dead? Luke should just go to Snoke. Snoke would have made sure the Jedi and Luke ended in one swift moment. No need to sulk alone on an island. No Rey bothering him. Done. - Luke loses all hope that his apprentice is going to turn to the Dark Side (despite the fact that Luke fought off Vader/The Emperor double teaming him in Episode 6) that he tries to kill the boy as he sleeps. Luke does this even though wasn't even willing to strike down one of the most evil Sith Lords of all time, Darth Vader, as he lay defenseless at his feet in Episode 6... - Luke would rather be electrocuted repeatedly by The Emperor than give up on the Jedi in Episode 6. He would rather face Vader on Cloud City to rescue his friends/family from mortal danger. He would risk his life and go into the Death Star to help someone he had never even met before. In Episode 8 though, he wants the Jedi to end (WTF?) and has given up on everyone including his own twin sister. - Luke, when he shows even a shred of concern for where Han is, shows no concern for Leia until R2 guilts him into helping her. Luke Skywalker wouldn't need anyone to convince him to help his sister. Even before he knew who she was to him, he wanted to help her when he watched her hologram message for the first time. Leia was always Luke's soft spot. Vader knew this, which is why he uses it to his advantage to lure Luke out of the shadows in Episode 6. - Even if Luke wanted the Jedi to end, he wouldn't throw his father's lightsaber away. He wouldn't throw his first lightsaber away. That's the Skywalker's legacy lightsaber! I knew there was something wrong with the movie during the opening stupid humor scene involving Poe/Hux, but this scene was the one that let me know something was terribly wrong with the movie...I actually leaned forward in my seat out of shock at how out of place it was. I wanted to like it. I did. I really enjoyed Episode 7 (despite its flaws) and Rogue One was decent. I got very excited when the opening crawl said, 'Jedi Master Luke Skywalker', as that was the first time a Star Wars movie called him that. I admit, I got very giddy at that moment...it quickly dissipated afterwards. Rian Jonson wrote a shitty movie. He doesn't know how to collaborate with other writers. He threw out everything that Kasdan/Abrams set-up in Episode 7. He didn't even replace it with anything interesting either. Nor did he honor Lucas' legacy, the mythology of the prior eight movies, or the behavior of the original characters (outside of Chewbacca). 1/10 for the Leia/Luke scene which was the only moment where Luke acted like Luke. Just so, I won't watch Episode 8 again. I have no interest. It's the first Star Wars movie I've never bothered to watch a second time. I thought there would be logical answers for Luke's behavior...I was wrong, unfortunately.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jun 1, 2018 15:01:07 GMT
I'll never forget (or forgive) the way they've treated Luke Skywalker, Han Solo (the real one), Leia Organa, and the Droids. You don't humiliate, disrespect, and punish our heroes after 40 years and expect the fans to come crawling back for more. We're not masochists. Apparently, others haven't forgotten either. Good. I'm glad. They didn't dsrespect any of those characters. They killed Han because Ford didn't want to do more than onemovie. As for Luke, I know it would be nice to have a fairy tale story where he was nothing but good and perfect (and yet somehow not a Mary Sue?), but they showed him as a flawed man who made mistakes, and paid dearly for them. can you write a post without a false dilemma fallacy and fake facts? They undid most of the achievements and character arcs by way of lazy writing:
- Han in the OT became more selfless by risking his life for a higher cause and new friends (even making the way free for Luke and Leia). No way, we just reboot him as kewl smuggler (it's so helpful for smuggling when everybody knows your face and name). Family? Nah, unlike in the OT , Han runs away when his son and wife need him: To do his merry smuggler thing. Enter Adult Diaper Hans!
- Be gone Luke Skywalker, he let the Jedi order be destroyed again by a young emo-Skywalker turned by a dark lord. Does he clean up and redeem Kylo like his previous Vader-arc suggested? Nah, he cowardly hides on an island (to die) and lets the Empire rise again "in the meanwhile" bc the Jedi are so bad. He also wants to kill the emo-kid in his sleep, together with the whole Jedi order - the mess must be cleaned up by a glorious Sue. Jake Skywalker everybody!
- Blast you too Princess Leia, you are now a dumb-as-shit military leader who sends her estranged husband into a pointless suicide mission to their hateful, fanantical emo-son. Who needs family (including Chewie) when you can cheer and hug the Sue in the wrongest moments possible. I'm Carry Poppins y'all.
- Don't get me started on the droids and Chewbaca...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 16:02:04 GMT
I'll never forget (or forgive) the way they've treated Luke Skywalker, Han Solo (the real one), Leia Organa, and the Droids. You don't humiliate, disrespect, and punish our heroes after 40 years and expect the fans to come crawling back for more. We're not masochists. Apparently, others haven't forgotten either. Good. I'm glad. They didn't dsrespect any of those characters. They killed Han because Ford didn't want to do more than onemovie. As for Luke, I know it would be nice to have a fairy tale story where he was nothing but good and perfect (and yet somehow not a Mary Sue?), but they showed him as a flawed man who made mistakes, and paid dearly for them. Didn't disrespect my character? I would really like to know what you would actually consider "disrespecting my character". A flawed man? That's the understatement of the galaxy. Hmm... let's see. They made me a hermit. They made me homocidal: I went from trying to save a father who killed lots of people to trying to kill a nephew who thought about it. They made me an attempted child killer! They made me a coward. They made me look like I was either an idiot or had Alzheimer's: I left a map behind to where I was when I didn't want to be found! I DRANK GREEN MILK FROM AN ALIEN WALRUS-ELEPHANT COW'S TESTICLE TITS!!! I'm not saying that you'd have to be as dumb as a Coruscant granite slug to conclude that they weren't disrespectful to my character, buuut... "You don't want to sell us Death Sticks. You want to go home and rethink my character."
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 16:10:53 GMT
They didn't dsrespect any of those characters. They killed Han because Ford didn't want to do more than onemovie. As for Luke, I know it would be nice to have a fairy tale story where he was nothing but good and perfect (and yet somehow not a Mary Sue?), but they showed him as a flawed man who made mistakes, and paid dearly for them. It was underwhelming to kill off Han in the same movie they brought him back back in, but I understood what you said. I knew the position Disney was put in with him Harrison coming back to Star Wars. It was part of the reason why I excused a lot of my issues with the movie. I knew they had to deal with a reluctant actor there. Not a problem. The part that was a problem was them splitting Han/Leia up and making them terrible parents. Also, the whole having Han killed by his own son was pathetic. In terms of Luke, they didn't have to kill him off. The actor loved the fandom, loved the character, and loved being part of the franchise. Mark would have happily done a whole bunch of movies as Luke. Luke wasn't perfect. He did have trouble with patience and judging a book (Yoda) by his cover in Episode 5, but he learned from Obi-Wan/Yoda's lessons. He grew, he matured. Rian Johnson decided to throw that all out by making Luke some kind of grumpy, neanderthal whose motivation makes no sense from Episodes 4-7 to 8: - Luke claims to want the Jedi to end but he's found at the end of Episode 7 wearing white Jedi robes... 30 years later.
- Luke leaves a map in Episode 7 for people to find his location, yet he then says he doesn't want anything to do with anyone. Then WHY did he leave it in the first place? That map got a lot of people killed at the start of Episode 7 (including a whole village of people), endangered the lives' of Leia/the Droids/Chewbacca, weakened The Resistance's cause, and got Han Solo killed. If he felt so responsible for everything going so wrong, it was idiotic to put more people up for the slaughter. - Luke says he wants the Jedi to end and he's gone to the island to die. Then why actively hide from Snoke/Kylo Ren who are the only 2 people actively wanting him dead? Luke should just go to Snoke. Snoke would have made sure the Jedi and Luke ended in one swift moment. No need to sulk alone on an island. No Rey bothering him. Done. - Luke loses all hope that his apprentice is going to turn to the Dark Side (despite the fact that Luke fought off Vader/The Emperor double teaming him in Episode 6) that he tries to kill the boy as he sleeps. Luke does this even though wasn't even willing to strike down one of the most evil Sith Lords of all time, Darth Vader, as he lay defenseless at his feet in Episode 6... - Luke would rather be electrocuted repeatedly by The Emperor than give up on the Jedi in Episode 6. He would rather face Vader on Cloud City to rescue his friends/family from mortal danger. He would risk his life and go into the Death Star to help someone he had never even met before. In Episode 8 though, he wants the Jedi to end (WTF?) and has given up on everyone including his own twin sister. - Luke, when he shows even a shred of concern for where Han is, shows no concern for Leia until R2 guilts him into helping her. Luke Skywalker wouldn't need anyone to convince him to help his sister. Even before he knew who she was to him, he wanted to help her when he watched her hologram message for the first time. Leia was always Luke's soft spot. Vader knew this, which is why he uses it to his advantage to lure Luke out of the shadows in Episode 6. - Even if Luke wanted the Jedi to end, he wouldn't throw his father's lightsaber away. He wouldn't throw his first lightsaber away. That's the Skywalker's legacy lightsaber! I knew there was something wrong with the movie during the opening stupid humor scene involving Poe/Hux, but this scene was the one that let me know something was terribly wrong with the movie...I actually leaned forward in my seat out of shock at how out of place it was. I wanted to like it. I did. I really enjoyed Episode 7 (despite its flaws) and Rogue One was decent. I got very excited when the opening crawl said, 'Jedi Master Luke Skywalker', as that was the first time a Star Wars movie called him that. I admit, I got very giddy at that moment...it quickly dissipated afterwards. Rian Jonson wrote a shitty movie. He doesn't know how to collaborate with other writers. He threw out everything that Kasdan/Abrams set-up in Episode 7. He didn't even replace it with anything interesting either. Nor did he honor Lucas' legacy, the mythology of the prior eight movies, or the behavior of the original characters (outside of Chewbacca). 1/10 for the Leia/Luke scene which was the only moment where Luke acted like Luke. Just so, I won't watch Episode 8 again. I have no interest. It's the first Star Wars movie I've never bothered to watch a second time. I thought there would be logical answers for Luke's behavior...I was wrong, unfortunately. 
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 16:12:13 GMT
They didn't dsrespect any of those characters. They killed Han because Ford didn't want to do more than onemovie. As for Luke, I know it would be nice to have a fairy tale story where he was nothing but good and perfect (and yet somehow not a Mary Sue?), but they showed him as a flawed man who made mistakes, and paid dearly for them. can you write a post without a false dilemma fallacy and fake facts? They undid most of the achievements and character arcs by way of lazy writing:
- Han in the OT became more selfless by risking his life for a higher cause and new friends (even making the way free for Luke and Leia). No way, we just reboot him as kewl smuggler (it's so helpful for smuggling when everybody knows your face and name). Family? Nah, unlike in the OT , Han runs away when his son and wife need him: To do his merry smuggler thing. Enter Adult Diaper Hans!
- Be gone Luke Skywalker, he let the Jedi order be destroyed again by a young emo-Skywalker turned by a dark lord. Does he clean up and redeem Kylo like his previous Vader-arc suggested? Nah, he cowardly hides on an island (to die) and lets the Empire rise again "in the meanwhile" bc the Jedi are so bad. He also wants to kill the emo-kid in his sleep, together with the whole Jedi order - the mess must be cleaned up by a glorious Sue. Jake Skywalker everybody!
- Blast you too Princess Leia, you are now a dumb-as-shit military leader who sends her estranged husband into a pointless suicide mission to their hateful, fanantical emo-son. Who needs family (including Chewie) when you can cheer and hug the Sue in the wrongest moments possible. I'm Carry Poppins y'all.
- Don't get me started on the droids and Chewbaca...

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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 2:17:47 GMT
They didn't dsrespect any of those characters. They killed Han because Ford didn't want to do more than onemovie. As for Luke, I know it would be nice to have a fairy tale story where he was nothing but good and perfect (and yet somehow not a Mary Sue?), but they showed him as a flawed man who made mistakes, and paid dearly for them. can you write a post without a false dilemma fallacy and fake facts? They undid most of the achievements and character arcs by way of lazy writing:
- Han in the OT became more selfless by risking his life for a higher cause and new friends (even making the way free for Luke and Leia). No way, we just reboot him as kewl smuggler (it's so helpful for smuggling when everybody knows your face and name). Family? Nah, unlike in the OT , Han runs away when his son and wife need him: To do his merry smuggler thing. Enter Adult Diaper Hans!
- Be gone Luke Skywalker, he let the Jedi order be destroyed again by a young emo-Skywalker turned by a dark lord. Does he clean up and redeem Kylo like his previous Vader-arc suggested? Nah, he cowardly hides on an island (to die) and lets the Empire rise again "in the meanwhile" bc the Jedi are so bad. He also wants to kill the emo-kid in his sleep, together with the whole Jedi order - the mess must be cleaned up by a glorious Sue. Jake Skywalker everybody!
- Blast you too Princess Leia, you are now a dumb-as-shit military leader who sends her estranged husband into a pointless suicide mission to their hateful, fanantical emo-son. Who needs family (including Chewie) when you can cheer and hug the Sue in the wrongest moments possible. I'm Carry Poppins y'all.
- Don't get me started on the droids and Chewbaca...
Meesa thinks @creppycrusader is just an ear bashing Disney shill.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jun 2, 2018 2:47:37 GMT
I still don’t get the complaints about TLJ, at least not in terms of Snoke getting killed off, the revelation about Rey’s parentsor the direction they took Luke’s character in.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 4:02:50 GMT
I still don’t get the complaints about TLJ, at least not in terms of Snoke getting killed off, the revelation about Rey’s parents or the direction they took Luke’s character in. Okay, so a couple of questions. Did any of these things REALLY make sense according to the established characters or the story? What was good about it other than it was unexpected? Because a guy sitting next to me in the theatre ripping a 90db fart is unexpected. That doesn't mean I want to spend 15 to 20 bucks for the experience.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jun 2, 2018 4:12:33 GMT
I still don’t get the complaints about TLJ, at least not in terms of Snoke getting killed off, the revelation about Rey’s parents or the direction they took Luke’s character in. Okay, so a couple of questions. Did any of these things REALLY make sense according to the established characters or the story? What was good about it other than it was unexpected? Because a guy sitting next to me in the theatre ripping a 90db fart is unexpected. That doesn't mean I want to spend 15 to 20 bucks for the experience. 1. As far as Snoke’s character getting killed off is concerned, I think that works because it not only was unexpected, but also served as a defining moment in Kyle Ren’s descent into villainy. He was a bad guy before, but rather than his killing of the emperor being a moment of redemption for him like it was for his grandfather, it instead established that he was the new master of the First Order. That Han and Leia’s son is now the fact of the Sith, and that he (depending on how Episode IX progresses) may very well be too far gone. Plus, Snoke basically just came across as a clone of Palpatine. 2. The thing with Rey’s parents was fine because I’ve never been a fan of the idea of her coming from some incredibly important background. We already had the whole “your father was an incredible Jedi master” thing with Luke. We don’t need another protagonist who’s destined for greatness just because of who his or her parents are. 3. The direction they took Luke in worked for me because the whole point of his arc in the film is that he had become disillusioned with the Jedi order and shut himself off from the world, only to slowly learn that hope isn’t completely lost, which culminates in him having one final heartfelt moment with his sister, right before he sacrifices himself in order to buy the Resistance time to escape.
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Post by darkpast on Jun 2, 2018 4:34:59 GMT
I still don’t get the complaints about TLJ, at least not in terms of Snoke getting killed off, the revelation about Rey’s parentsor the direction they took Luke’s character in. Snoke was killed off in such comical way , it was just dumb , the audience did not even get lightsaber fight.
The reveal of Rey's parents didn't matter to me, but they failed to explain why she was so powerful. They could have made her character more beleiveable simply explaining she was trained as a child.
Luke arc could have been good, but the execution was just the worst possible. He suddenly won't help his sister? Luke could have joined the fight without using his force powers. If he has given up the ways of the Jedi.
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