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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 1, 2018 3:53:15 GMT
Oh BTW this is a very interesting archival piece where Harrison Ford in 1977 discusses what it was like to see Star Wars for the first time, notice when they discuss serials how unfamiliar he and the reporter were with them. www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ij1vGWs73k
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jun 1, 2018 4:03:56 GMT
Primemovermithrax Pejorative RE: Serials I have a relative who is a HUGE fan of John Wayne but doesn't know much about films or movie history. He bought one of those DVD collections and was all excited and told me all about Wayne having been in a few TV series when he was VERY young. It took a little while to figure out that he was talking about the serials of the 30's and a longer while to explain what a serial was.
Ford is soooooooo young in that interview !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 5:17:36 GMT
I think I saw the 2004 re-do, which makes it a pretty confusing scene. I can understand Lucas’s motivations, at least as quoted in the Wikipedia article, but I have a prejudice against additional re-cuts and major movie changes in general (I even tend to dislike directors’ cuts unless there’s a compelling reason why it had to be re-cut). I definitely think you should watch the non SE Empire Strikes Back because the Emperor is voiced by someone different from the ROTJ and as you zeroed in on Cushing instead of Vader you may zero in on the voice and I am curious how you react to it (especially once you know who does the voice). Do not want to spoil it but there is a shift in the character of the Emperor between the two films and I think the original interpretation makes Cushing's involvement more logical. The big loss with the SE Star Wars is no werewolf alien in the cantina! I think that is the most iconic shot, suggesting the wild alien qualities of the environment. Lucas replaced him with an irritating slurpee drinking character. And don't forget: the original Boba Fett voice! Jason Wingreen was bad ass! It was a crime to replace him...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 5:22:13 GMT
My apologies for stopping the live log, folks, but I got caught up in some other ‘real world’ stuff in the middle of the movie. Looking forward to The Empire Strikes Back (and Return of the Jedi), @forceghostackbar ; I’ll try to take a look as soon as I can. If no one minds, I jotted down some general comments… Basically I enjoyed it but didn’t think it was flawless. As I wrote, I was surprised that Peter Cushing’s Grand Moff Tarkin was more imposing a villain than Darth Vader, though I was delighted just to see Cushing here. The two robots annoyed me, and the picture doesn’t really get going until we first meet Mark Hamill’s Luke Skywalker. I really enjoyed the scene in the bar where we first meet Harrison Ford’s Han Solo, and (like you, BATouttaheck ) I loved Alec Guinness’s sage Obi-Wan. (His early death is a definite disappointment.) Chewbacca was a lot less annoying than I expected when we first meet him. The dialogue is (probably intentionally) simplistic, but I have to disagree with you on one point, Tristan's Journal : I found the plot less simple than archetypal, and on that basis it works amazingly well. I thought the special effects were fine, but I thought the final chase/explosion disappointing, too drawn out but, at the end, too neat. Tristan, it didn’t really come off to me as a “cheap kiddy movie,” though I can tell why Lucas decided to give up the director’s chair; his direction is only adequate, and he’s better with inventing a story than telling one. As always, Harrison Ford is a lot of fun. My biggest problem is that I think Star Wars is decent without ascending to greatness, or even attempting it; Hawks said that a great movie is three good scenes and no bad ones. Star Wars definitely has good scenes, but it also has bad ones (Leia and Vader’s dialogue in the beginning, for example, or the classroom scene near the climax). As I wrote, I’m looking forward to The Empire Strikes Back, as I do feel that these characters could easily be in a really great movie. Oh, and one more little point: I’m sure I could look this up, but if Leia is leading this group of rebels against the Empire, how is she a princess? Was she a princess of the Empire who then rebelled against it? If so, why does everyone call her “princess”? Is there an older monarchist group that opposes the new Imperial monarchy? (Speaking of Leia, Carrie Fisher doesn’t appear at her best in the early scenes, but she’s very cute and lovely towards the end. My apologies if that seems a bit disrespectful to the late Miss Fisher, but I intend it complimentarily.) Salzy, my friend, I can promise you that Empire IS that great movie you're hoping for. There are a lot of Star Wars fans that love the original the best... And I definately respect that. But Empire is the superior movie in my opinion. It is masterful fantasy filmmaking. The script is written by the writer of Raiders of the lost Ark and it is superb! A new director also helps. Lucas was notorious for being bad with actors. Ford admits to completely ignoring him during filming! Hamil learned to do the same! Vader is more of a henchman in the original... But in Empire he becomes that iconic villain you were expecting. Also, there is more Alec Guiness! ...In Spooky Ghost form!👻 I can't say I agree with your opinion of the droids though. I find them charming and iconic. But to each his own.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 1, 2018 5:59:45 GMT
Ford is soooooooo young in that interview ! And chatty. Much more than in years later.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 1, 2018 6:01:10 GMT
And don't forget: the original Boba Fett voice! Jason Wingreen was bad ass! It was a crime to replace him... "What if he doesn't survive. He's worth a lot to me." If they dont have his voice being imitated in the Boba Fett movie, forget it. They already fucked him up with the prequel back story. Sometimes unanswered questions is a good thing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 18:57:07 GMT
And don't forget: the original Boba Fett voice! Jason Wingreen was bad ass! It was a crime to replace him... "What if he doesn't survive. He's worth a lot to me." If they dont have his voice being imitated in the Boba Fett movie, forget it. They already fucked him up with the prequel back story. Sometimes unanswered questions is a good thing. There's no shortage of fans who think that Boba Fett is "overrated" and I'm convinced it's because they've never heard the real version of the character.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 1, 2018 19:04:37 GMT
There's no shortage of fans who think that Boba Fett is "overrated" and I'm convinced it's because they've never heard the real version of the character. I first saw him in the Holiday special cartoon, but the big controversy was the ultra rare action figure that fired a rocket and they had to change it. I wrote to Kenner about it and they wrote me back a testy letter about how the authorities said it was too dangerous. They sure fucked him up in the SE where he was goofing around with the singers in Jabba's palace Was much better when we see him standing stoically off to the side. The first Boba Fett fan film I heard of was in 1981. Someone did a short film about him taking Han Solo to Jabba, then years later they did a comic book on the same subject.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 1, 2018 19:07:22 GMT
I think we need to make a petition that insists Salzmank watch the non SE version of ESB and ROTJ for historical integrity's sake. You only can experience them for the first time once! Don't blow it on an inferior version! This is one time where downloading torrents is the right thing to do.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 19:14:04 GMT
I think we need to make a petition that insists Salzmank watch the non SE version of ESB and ROTJ for historical integrity's sake. You only can experience them for the first time once! Don't blow it on an inferior version! This is one time where downloading torrents is the right thing to do. It is such a shame that new viewers only have access to the crappy SE versions.. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen the full theatrical versions in their original glory. I grew up in the 90s so I saw the early SE versions. Of course they've gotten worse and worse with each new rerelease. I hate Disney for not releasing the original versions. What are they waiting for?!
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 1, 2018 19:51:53 GMT
Oh the specialness of seeing the Empire Strikes Back in May 1980 on my birthday not knowing a thing about the plot beyond some images.
Fortunately in those days it was much easier to keep a secret about character identity revelations.
I watched the VHS versions for years but then when the 1997 SE ones came out, I ignored the old ones since I didnt have them in WS. But when I heard about the 2004 version changes I was like, no freaking way am I watching those when they made so many MORE changes! So I watched the unaltered laser disk versions---I liked them better than the SE (although a couple of changes I didnt mind like the spaceships seen flying over Mos Eisley or the additional views of Cloud City). The only problem was the laser disk ones look HORRIBLE on a big tv. Pretty much unwatchable, so it is a good thing that Harmy's Despecialized Editions came along.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 17, 2018 10:57:57 GMT
Serious question for which I’ve searched unavailingly for an answer: just why is Lucas so intent on ridding the world of the original Star Wars?
I mean, I can understand his desire to make changes, and he seems to have an unabashed love of fiddling and retooling (case in point: The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles), but I just saw an article that said he actually used to make Lucasfilm buy or sue to take prints of the original that private collectors had. He’d also rather have Star Wars not preserved in the Library of Congress if it’s the original. That sounds like madness, or obsession, or at least fear of something. Anyone really know why?
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jul 17, 2018 13:18:01 GMT
Serious question for which I’ve searched unavailingly for an answer: just why is Lucas so intent on ridding the world of the original Star Wars? I mean, I can understand his desire to make changes, and he seems to have an unabashed love of fiddling and retooling (case in point: The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles), but I just saw an article that said he actually used to make Lucasfilm buy or sue to take prints of the original that private collectors had. He’d also rather have Star Wars not preserved in the Library of Congress if it’s the original. That sounds like madness, or obsession, or at least fear of something. Anyone really know why? Lol at Lucas wanting "Star Wars not preserved in the Library of Congress if it’s the original" Don't believe every click bait, Lucas-bashing article you read. Lucas even published an edition including the original OT films along side the special editions. As for your question, Lucas is two things:
1. A veritable artist and brilliant storyteller never fully satisfied with the results - and claiming that true art is never really finished but as an artist you still have to learn to "let go" (check his audio commentaries discussing it, also a theme in the Prequels).
2. A shrewed business man and company father who successfully sold edition for edition of the same thing just with minor cosmetic changes as a gimmick and fans bought each version thus having several versions of each film.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 17, 2018 13:22:16 GMT
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jul 17, 2018 13:38:17 GMT
not "only", but mostly, he released a edition with the theatrical cuts (there are many through the years). But as for the Special Edition, again the same principles:
1. He said that for him the special edition is teh official one as it corresponds more with his original vision. This is not new but was done with art through the centuries, you might think painters (M Lisa was a work in progress for 16+ years until Leo's last supper) , opera (eg Wagner's Tannhäuser) and (naturally) grand architecture and such.
2. Also Lucas claimed that fully restoring the original prints was too costly and time consuming as he was in full production with other projects. Recently, in 2016, film fans who had found an original 35mm film print of the first Star Wars movie, spent several years cleaning it up, scanning each frame of film and digitally restoring it to make the cleanest version of the original movie as possible.It still sucks quality wise but looks ok.
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Post by deembastille on Jul 17, 2018 13:53:00 GMT
1: yes it is the middle of the story (as a life long story). Lucas wrote the three 'prequals' first and then wrote a new hope, empire, and return of the Jedi. After looking over all of them he decided to shelve the first three because he thought the latter 3 were more interesting.
2: yeah, I get what you're saying. However, (and I found this out by a lifetime of watching it) the more you watch it, the more you are able to grasp what EXACTLY is going on.
3: yeah, there should have been more Han Solo in it.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jul 17, 2018 13:59:43 GMT
1: yes it is the middle of the story (as a life long story). Lucas wrote the three 'prequals' first and then wrote a new hope, empire, and return of the Jedi. After looking over all of them he decided to shelve the first three because he thought the latter 3 were more interesting. ^^^^ is what happens when someone does not read the entire thread before posting …
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Post by deembastille on Jul 17, 2018 15:01:51 GMT
1: yes it is the middle of the story (as a life long story). Lucas wrote the three 'prequals' first and then wrote a new hope, empire, and return of the Jedi. After looking over all of them he decided to shelve the first three because he thought the latter 3 were more interesting. ^^^^ is what happens when someone does not read the entire thread before posting … Is this what happens when you are a relentless asshole bully?
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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 17, 2018 15:14:39 GMT
1: yes it is the middle of the story (as a life long story). Lucas wrote the three 'prequals' first and then wrote a new hope, empire, and return of the Jedi. After looking over all of them he decided to shelve the first three because he thought the latter 3 were more interesting. 2: yeah, I get what you're saying. However, (and I found this out by a lifetime of watching it) the more you watch it, the more you are able to grasp what EXACTLY is going on. 3: yeah, there should have been more Han Solo in it. He really wrote the prequels first? I heard he’d written the whole thing as one huge story (then reworked it to fit the Campbellian monomyth more closely). What I meant is that it seems as if we start in the middle of this particular story—as if, by normal storytelling standards, we should have started with Leia’s stealing the plans or something. I don’t really mind it, though. Oh, I think I got ahold of the story fairly quickly, I just thought the opening needed a few more takes. We agree completely on 3. The Solo character is fun. Did Lucas (et al.) originally write him as a variation on Bogart? I was detecting a To Have and Have Not vibe (as I get a Casablanca vibe from Ford’s Indy, but really only in Raiders).
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jul 17, 2018 17:17:08 GMT
^^^^ is what happens when someone does not read the entire thread before posting … Is this what happens when you are a relentless asshole bully? Regret that you interpreted my earlier note as a post by a "relentless asshole bully" …. you may not be aware of it BUT your posts that are rather free floating and not addressed to anyone (or anything) in particular often seem to have nothing to do with what has gone on before in the thread .. the one cited earlier being read by me as one such. Apologies to the OP for the hopefully brief interruption to his excellent thread and looking forward to the watching of and reporting on Episode IV , V, VI by Nalkarj
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