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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 4:48:09 GMT
THAT'S THE ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!%5 Haha. You beat me to this. I basically posted the ^same reply^ before reading on...
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Nov 26, 2018 4:50:44 GMT
THAT'S THE ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!%5 Haha. You beat me to this. I basically posted the ^same reply^ before reading on... BRILLIANT!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 4:52:02 GMT
I've said this before but how AMAZING would it have been if Holdo's role had gone to Admiral Ackbar?
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Post by Nalkarj on Nov 26, 2018 4:54:02 GMT
I honestly never expected our resident baddie to kill his boss. That is surprising. It’s still just a rehash of the OT though. It’s Vader killing the Emperor but with none of the build up or emotional weight. Right, but it comes off as a twist exactly because it doesn’t have any build-up or emotional weight. It’s a…“wait, what?” Because we don’t expect our big bad villain to be killed off in the middle entry of a trilogy. It’s not a particularly good twist, though. I love twists, but you have to keep faithful to your characters, or twists fail miserably. (Sweet little Zuzu Bailey can’t turn into a deranged serial killer overnight–that’d certainly be a twist, but it’s emotionally and dramatically unsatisfying.) This is a twist that isn’t true to the characters, comes out of nowhere, and fails to explain the Snoke character, who himself came out of nowhere. It comes off as an attempt to be shocking, to make Zuzu a deranged serial killer (I will now use this metaphor whenever I can!), more than to be honest in your storytelling.
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Post by Nalkarj on Nov 26, 2018 4:56:11 GMT
I've said this before but how AMAZING would it have been if Holdo's role had gone to Admiral Ackbar? 1. I had to look up who Holdo was. I guess I never got her name through my head, I was too busy chuckling at the purple hair and puke curtain dress. Ahem. 2. Not only would we like it, for obvious reasons, but it actually makes logical sense for these characters—something this picture just won’t do.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 4:57:40 GMT
I've actually been watching Citizen Kane off and on as you've been watching TLJ. Even though I've seen it before I should've posted my thoughts in real time on this thread in between yours just for kicks...
Salzmank: I can't believe Luke wants the Jedi to end!!!@
Ghost Ackbar: I can't believe Rosebud was a sled!!!!&
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Nov 26, 2018 5:00:33 GMT
I lost all curiosity in the Disney SW when I heard Darth Feeb or whatever his name is speaking in the trailer--sounding like a wimpy Vader wannabe and failing badly at it. A Nerd Vader, not what I want to see.
I was reminded of JJ Abrams Star Trek (which I didn't bother to watch either beyond the trailer either) where Eric Bana, who I cannot stand, says "Fire everythang!"
Admiral Ackbar had a good voice. But he wouldn't have said that line. He knows the importance of concentrated fire power.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Nov 26, 2018 5:00:48 GMT
I've actually been watching Citizen Kane off and on as you've been watching TLJ. Even though I've seen it before I should've posted my thoughts in real time on this thread in between yours just for kicks... Salzmank: I can't believe Luke wants the Jedi to end!!!@ Ghost Ackbar: I can't believe Rosebud was a sled!!!!& AND I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT BUTTER !!!!!!!!!!!3
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Post by Nalkarj on Nov 26, 2018 5:04:10 GMT
I’ve actually been watching Citizen Kane off and on as you’ve been watching TLJ. Even though I’ve seen it before I should’ve posted my thoughts in real time on this thread in between yours just for kicks… Salzmank: I can’t believe Luke wants the Jedi to end!!!@ Ghost Ackbar: I can’t believe Rosebud was a sled!!!!& Oh, I would have loved that! At the risk of an absolutely pointless truism, what a great movie Citizen Kane is. Good enough to get the bad taste of this one out of my mouth. Charlie Kane wouldn’t have financed this stupid picture even if Susan got an aria in it!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 5:05:25 GMT
So Salz,
When Episode 9 comes out, will you go to the theater to see it or have you lost all interest?
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Post by Nalkarj on Nov 26, 2018 5:07:20 GMT
I lost all curiosity in the Disney SW when I heard Darth Feeb or whatever his name is speaking in the trailer–sounding like a wimpy Vader wannabe and failing badly at it. A Nerd Vader, not what I want to see.
I was reminded of JJ Abrams Star Trek (which I didn’t bother to watch either beyond the trailer either) where Eric Bana, who I cannot stand, says “Fire everythang!” Admiral Ackbar had a good voice. But he wouldn’t have said that line. He knows the importance of concentrated fire power. And a wimpy Vader wannabe is exactly what he is–it’s so infuriating. It’s just a plain bad characterization. The first Star Trek remake was OK. I liked that Nimoy was in it. It’s very much a modern blockbuster, as The Force Awakens was, but I thought it was better than The Force Awakens–the rapport among the leads was especially good. Unfortunately, I thought the second one was so bad that I never saw the third.
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Post by Nalkarj on Nov 26, 2018 5:13:06 GMT
So Salz, When Episode 9 comes out, will you go to the theater to see it or have you lost all interest? Oh, I’ll probably see it. It’ll be, y’know, the first Star Wars flick I will have seen in theaters, oddly enough. And I certainly haven’t lost interest; in fact, I’m interested in how they’re going to dig themselves out of the hole they’ve fallen into (if they do, that is–I see they’ve rehired Abrams, which is a–somewhat better sign. At least The Force Awakens was slightly more palatable than The Last Jedi). And I want to see the end of Rey’s arc. I’m just going to have fairly low expectations.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Nov 26, 2018 5:13:26 GMT
I lost all curiosity in the Disney SW when I heard Darth Feeb or whatever his name is speaking in the trailer–sounding like a wimpy Vader wannabe and failing badly at it. A Nerd Vader, not what I want to see.
I was reminded of JJ Abrams Star Trek (which I didn’t bother to watch either beyond the trailer either) where Eric Bana, who I cannot stand, says “Fire everythang!” Admiral Ackbar had a good voice. But he wouldn’t have said that line. He knows the importance of concentrated fire power. And a wimpy Vader wannabe is exactly what he is–it’s so infuriating. It’s just a plain bad characterization. The first Star Trek remake was OK. I liked that Nimoy was in it [END SPOILER]. It’s very much a modern blockbuster, as The Force Awakens was, but I thought it was better than The Force Awakens–the rapport among the leads was especially good. Unfortunately, I thought the second one was so bad that I never saw the third. In it's defense, the STAR TREK IS DARKER was aimed at fans. It was essentially a remake. If you didn't see the original version, you really wouldn't get ( as ) much out of it. As a long time fan, I really enjoyed it.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Nov 26, 2018 5:14:59 GMT
So Salz, When Episode 9 comes out, will you go to the theater to see it or have you lost all interest? Oh, I’ll probably see it. It’ll be, y’know, the first Star Wars flick I will have seen in theaters, oddly enough. And I certainly haven’t lost interest; in fact, I’m interested in how they’re going to dig themselves out of the hole they’ve fallen into (if they do, that is–I see they’ve rehired Abrams, which is a–somewhat better sign. At least The Force Awakens was slightly more palatable than The Last Jedi). And I want to see the end of Rey’s arc. I’m just going to have fairly low expectations. I have seen every STAR WARS film in it's first run in theaters. So I basically HAVE to see part 9 there as well.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Nov 26, 2018 5:17:21 GMT
And a wimpy Vader wannabe is exactly what he is–it’s so infuriating. It’s just a plain bad characterization. The first Star Trek remake was OK. I liked that
It's unforgivable that they didn't get Shatner since it would be the last time he appeared with Nimoy and he had a poor death in the NG movie (which I think was yet more political BS-they HAVE to kill off the male authority characters).
But that would be my only reason to see it.
I am not a fan of remakes of things that first existed as a film--passing off other actors in the roles. It's always going to be a cheap knockoff especially these days. I watched Mission Impossible 3--it was watchable but extremely dumb.
For Star Trek and Star Wars I expect a different style. Abrams and co. cannot deliver.
It's scary to think how awful the next one will be. Mark my words, it is going to be one major suckola. There will probably be a 300 foot Jabba the Hutt clone who shoots lasers from his nostrils.
BTW I liked that Rancor keeper crying scene in Jedi!
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Nov 26, 2018 5:18:07 GMT
Oh, I’ll probably see it. It’ll be, y’know, the first Star Wars flick I will have seen in theaters, oddly enough. For god sake don't torture yourself like that!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 5:19:00 GMT
Welp. I didn’t like this one. It’s definitely the worst one I’ve seen so far. Its first act is absolutely horrid–and its second act, while better, is somehow even more boring. It’s very long, yet somehow incredibly dull for extended stretches, with minimal character or plot. What a mess of a movie. Really, I’m at a loss on what I should say. This is the only Star Wars movie I’ve seen since I’ve started this year of Star Wars that I couldn’t wait to end. I seriously wish at least an hour had been cut off of this movie. What’s good? Daisy Ridley. Her character’s not all that well-written, still, but she invests the picture with a kind of quiet dignity; so does Leia. The leads do a good job acting-wise, though their characters are terrible. In particular, Rose and Finn’s story feels like padding, and the writer could not think of what to do with Poe. Luke’s characterization and Hamill’s performance are dreadful. I seriously wonder if anyone involved in this production has seen a Star Wars movie before. I only saw ’em for the first time this year and can tell you that the writers are seriously messing up the characters. And a writer’s first rule is to be faithful to his characters. A writer’s second rule is to believe in his story; if he feels it has stakes, even if it’s ridiculous or comic, then the reader/viewer/listener has a better chance of buying it. How can we be expected to suspend our disbelief for a story if the storyteller can’t? But Rian Johnson, who wrote and directed, seems to believe not one jot in the story he’s telling. He treats it as a big joke–the Thor: Ragnarok of Star Wars. (There’s this wonderful interview with Peter Cushing where he says that he and Alec Guinness had no idea what they were saying in Star Wars–yet both men invested their dialogue with so much nuance and meaning. That’s acting, and that’s treating something seriously even when you think it ridiculous.) Roger Ebert pointed out how the monster’s jailer in Return of the Jedi got a small scene to mourn him. The filmmakers here killed off Ackbar (and possibly Luke?) here, and no one cares, just as no one cared when Han died. For the most part everything is shot dully, without the color or vibrancy even of The Force Awakens. The few visual pleasantries–Supreme Leader Snoke’s Throne Room, for example, in bright red–only go to show how grey the rest of the picture is. There are a few good things. I liked that sequence with hundreds of Reys. I liked Daisy Ridley. I liked how Adam Driver (thanks, @homergreg !) gave a better performance–until the end, when he went shouty and petulant again. I was genuinely surprised by the Snoke twist, though that means we’re left with Darth Horseface as our main villain. But there is so much that went so wrong here; I haven’t even talked about the inexplicable cameo from a CGI Yoda! By far the worst Star Wars movie. I do agree that the first act was bad. Mainly driven by placing Luke completely outside character. I felt that in mainly the third act, that Luke was absolutely back where he always should have been. I know he needed something to overcome for the story, but what he did was not what needed done. I also don't think the casino storyline was up to Star Wars standards, and dragged the story. Kylo is a character that can maintain his darkness through true rage or via being the petulant poseur that Snoke chastised. His manufactured hate for his father and Luke generated by "Schnoke's scheduction" (as Leia put it) manifests the horseface villain. But when he had real rage realizing that it was indeed true that Snoke was using him, the stronger character emerges. We know now about Rey's parents, nobodies, but we still don't know about her "family" she wanted to get back to, those that have been with her during the majority of her life on Jakku. My theoretical twist is that one of those influences was Lor San Tekka, who filled her head with the "Myths" of Skywalkers and the Force. And maybe even Constable Zuvio, who was cut from TFA altogether, although he had enough role to have had a figure made early on. We will see, but it sure would be a source of conflict if San Tekka was the family Rey had and she finds out from Poe about his fate. Not my favorite one either, but plenty for me to keep the story going IMHO, and I think we still have the potential for a great ending. I'll personally have to see the trilogy before I cast final judgememt, but I do understand the criticisms of the film.
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Post by Nalkarj on Nov 26, 2018 5:20:14 GMT
In it’s defense, the STAR TREK IS DARKER was aimed at fans. It was essentially a remake. If you didn’t see the original version, you really wouldn’t get ( as ) much out of it. As a long time fan, I really enjoyed it. That’s the second one, with Benedict Cumberbatch? I’m not quite as behind on Star Trek as I was on Star Wars (of which I’d seen nothing), but pretty close. I’ve seen about a dozen episodes of the original show, which I like but don’t love (though “The City on the Edge of Forever” was first-class), and the one movie where they have to save the whales, which was good, goofy fun. I also caught a few minutes of some later movie where Kirk and Bones are arrested for murder and Spock has to hunt the killer. If I may ask, what was it remaking, or is that a spoiler? Was it The Wrath of Khan? Because I’ve heard it was the same villain and that that one’s the best of the Star Trek movies. As for the new Star Trek 2, I just thought it was a badly made movie, unfortunately.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Nov 26, 2018 5:23:12 GMT
In it’s defense, the STAR TREK IS DARKER was aimed at fans. It was essentially a remake. If you didn’t see the original version, you really wouldn’t get ( as ) much out of it. As a long time fan, I really enjoyed it. That’s the second one, with Benedict Cumberbatch? I’m not quite as behind on Star Trek as I was on Star Wars (of which I’d seen nothing), but pretty close. I’ve seen about a dozen episodes of the original show, which I like but don’t love (though “The City on the Edge of Forever” was first-class), and the one movie where they have to save the whales, which was good, goofy fun. I also caught a few minutes of some later movie where Kirk and Bones are arrested for murder and Spock has to hunt the killer. If I may ask, what was it remaking, or is that a spoiler? Was it The Wrath of Khan? Because I’ve heard it was the same villain and that that one’s the best of the Star Trek movies. As for the new Star Trek 2, I just thought it was a badly made movie, unfortunately. Yes, it was Wrath of Khan ( which in itself is a stone cold classic ) done with a parallel universe ( Mandela effect? ) spin.
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Post by Nalkarj on Nov 26, 2018 5:32:30 GMT
I do agree that the first act was bad. Mainly driven by placing Luke completely outside character. I felt that in mainly the third act, that Luke was absolutely back where he always should have been. I know he needed something to overcome for the story, but what he did was not what needed done. I also don’t think the casino storyline was up to Star Wars standards, and dragged the story. Kylo is a character that can maintain his darkness through true rage or via being the petulant poseur that Snoke chastised. His manufactured hate for his father and Luke generated by “Schnoke’s scheduction” (as Leia put it) manifests the horseface villain. But when he had real rage realizing that it was indeed true that Snoke was using him, the stronger character emerges. We know now about Rey’s parents, nobodies, but we still don’t know about her “family” she wanted to get back to, those that have been with her during the majority of her life on Jakku. My theoretical twist is that one of those influences was Lor San Tekka, who filled her head with the “Myths” of Skywalkers and the Force. And maybe even Constable Zuvio, who was cut from TFA altogether, although he had enough role to have had a figure made early on. We will see, but it sure would be a source of conflict if San Tekka was the family Rey had and she finds out from Poe about his fate. Not my favorite one either, but plenty for me to keep the story going IMHO, and I think we still have the potential for a great ending. I’ll personally have to see the trilogy before I cast final judgememt, but I do understand the criticisms of the film. I know it’s just me, but one of the reasons I can’t get on-board with the modern shared-universe trend is that I judge every movie individually, even if it’s part of a series. I think I get bored of series and shared-universes pretty quickly and want to keep moving on to new stories. When series do hold my interest, then, I appreciate them even more. What I mean is that I understand your point about seeing the entire trilogy before casting judgment, which is a wise idea and one I should probably do as well! I just can’t do it, for better or worse. An interesting point about Kylo and how the characterization works on two levels. You may well be right, as I felt this characterization, for most of the movie, was superior to the last one. Lor San Tekka is Max von Sydow? That’s a great idea, especially as Max got nothing to do in TFA. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t mind writing for these characters. I think there’s material here waiting to be mined. But I think Mr. Johnson scrapped both their characterizations and any aspect of the originals in favor of his own attempts at cleverness.
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