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Post by Aj_June on May 30, 2018 6:55:57 GMT
GRRM employs certain changes in known and accepted naming convention to make them GOT style naming convention. For example he has Petyr for Peter. He also uses words from Latin and Sanskrit and other languages to create names. I also like how he has created surnames of bastards. They are mostly based on natural elements such as water, snow etc.
GRRM has said this in the past:
Do you like the names of characters in GOT? Or would it have been better if just used commonly used names in western Europe?
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Post by Marv on May 30, 2018 7:00:58 GMT
I like it when a persons name gives you some insight into he culture they were born into.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 30, 2018 7:57:16 GMT
I think it was a good idea. It makes the world alien in a logical way. His naming the bastards in a generic way, however, is a complete brain fart and the show fucked up further by giving Jon this stupid story about being with Ros and thinking of giving her "another bastard named Snow". That would of course not have happened or it would make no difference since half the country would be named Snow if it did.
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Post by Aj_June on May 30, 2018 11:12:38 GMT
I think it was a good idea. It makes the world alien in a logical way. His naming the bastards in a generic way, however, is a complete brain fart and the show fucked up further by giving Jon this stupid story about being with Ros and thinking of giving her "another bastard named Snow". That would of course not have happened or it would make no difference since half the country would be named Snow if it did. Considering that you have done a bit of study on GRRM's influence on History, any idea regarding from where the name Stannis is derived? and what about Baratheon? Is is a real name?
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 30, 2018 12:00:11 GMT
I think it was a good idea. It makes the world alien in a logical way. His naming the bastards in a generic way, however, is a complete brain fart and the show fucked up further by giving Jon this stupid story about being with Ros and thinking of giving her "another bastard named Snow". That would of course not have happened or it would make no difference since half the country would be named Snow if it did. Considering that you have done a bit of study on GRRM's influence on History, any idea regarding from where the name Stannis is derived? and what about Baratheon? Is is a real name? GRRM has not influenced history, I'm pretty sure of that Stannis sounds like Stanislav. Baratheon doesn't ring any bell for me. Tyrell, on the other hand is the name of the man suspected of having had a hand in the death of King William II of England during a stag hunt. See, Cersei never did anything…
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Post by Aj_June on May 30, 2018 12:22:57 GMT
Considering that you have done a bit of study on GRRM's influence on History, any idea regarding from where the name Stannis is derived? and what about Baratheon? Is is a real name? GRRM has not influenced history, I'm pretty sure of that Stannis sounds like Stanislav. Baratheon doesn't ring any bell for me. Tyrell, on the other hand is the name of the man suspected of having had a hand in the death of King William II of England during a stag hunt. See, Cersei never did anything… Lol at my stupidity there ....I meant to say history's influence on GRRM. Strange...Baratheon sounds as a very normal name. If GRRM invented it then he should be applauded. Thanks for Stanislav.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 30, 2018 13:05:25 GMT
Some names and places of his characters sound very European Very Greek to me like places like Pentos Very Greek , names daenyrys has Greek roots from Greek goddess Diana He mixes up names with Celtic inspirations sometimes unheard names with common names like Jon or catelyn (cat) Jamie
I never heard before of names Sansa, cersei, Tyrion,
I think he mixes it up
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 30, 2018 13:17:57 GMT
Very Greek , names daenyrys has Greek roots from Greek goddess Diana I never heard before of names Sansa, cersei, Tyrion, Daenerys could also come from Danaë, although I see to further connection. Cersei is obviously inspired from Circe.
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Jun 6, 2018 14:22:32 GMT
Do you like the names of characters in GOT? Or would it have been better if just used commonly used names in western Europe?
I like the names in Game of Thrones except for Osha/Asha Greyjoy. Authors are taught they're not suppose to choose names that sound too similar in their stories. This is why Asha Greyjoy became Yara Greyjoy in the show - to differentiate between her and the Wildling, Osha. Other than that, I think the names are great and give a sense of "history" and detail to the world.
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Jun 6, 2018 14:26:35 GMT
I think it was a good idea. It makes the world alien in a logical way. His naming the bastards in a generic way, however, is a complete brain fart and the show fucked up further by giving Jon this stupid story about being with Ros and thinking of giving her "another bastard named Snow". That would of course not have happened or it would make no difference since half the country would be named Snow if it did.Interesting. What would you have done instead? I think Jon was just scared to give another child a bastard's life. There's a stigma that comes with being a bastard in GOT. They're regulated to a life of being a "lesser person" because they have no claim to anything unless legitimized. So it's partially Jon not wanting to give a kid that life, while another part is just irrational fear (many fears are irrational).
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Post by Aj_June on Jun 6, 2018 14:32:48 GMT
Do you like the names of characters in GOT? Or would it have been better if just used commonly used names in western Europe?
I like the names in Game of Thrones except for Osha/Asha Greyjoy. Authors are taught they're not suppose to choose names that sound too similar in their stories. This is why Asha Greyjoy became Yara Greyjoy in the show - to differentiate between her and the Wildling, Osha. Other than that, I think the names are great and give a sense of "history" and detail to the world. Yeah, the names are pretty believable and sound very good on ears. I like that name "Lothor Brune". I almost made it my username here but then decided not to have that at last seconds. It's interesting that the names are inspired from many different languages. Mirri Maz Duur sounds like a Muslim name, Xaro Xhoan Daxos feels like a combination of Chinese & African & Asha & Arya are Sanskrit names.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jun 6, 2018 15:46:24 GMT
I think it was a good idea. It makes the world alien in a logical way. His naming the bastards in a generic way, however, is a complete brain fart and the show fucked up further by giving Jon this stupid story about being with Ros and thinking of giving her "another bastard named Snow". That would of course not have happened or it would make no difference since half the country would be named Snow if it did.Interesting. What would you have done instead? I think Jon was just scared to give another child a bastard's life. There's a stigma that comes with being a bastard in GOT. They're regulated to a life of being a "lesser person" because they have no claim to anything unless legitimized. So it's partially Jon not wanting to give a kid that life, while another part is just irrational fear (many fears are irrational). That stupid stigma business is the first problem. This is a modern leftard's fantasy, all set to point out anything that doesn't follow their stinking egalitarian dogma. Bastards of noble family never had to live with a "stigma", they were simply not eligible to direct inheritance when legitimate children existed but enjoyed all the privileges of being high-born. William the Conqueror was a bastard. He was 8 when his father died without other children and his relatives tried to take advantage of his age to seize the cake but he found help with none other than the king of France and finally came to keep the duchy of Normandy. There was no stupid "War of the Five Dukes", no uncle or cousin calling himself "the Rightful Heir", only a bunch of opportunists taking their chances. William knew and loved his servant mother. These people had no family names, by the way. The noble were known by the places they ruled, so William was William of Normandy before he became William of England, and the commoners were usually known by their profession when needed (which was not often): John the smith, Harry the potter etc… I'm not sure when family names started to stick. It happened quite late, maybe sometime in the 15th century. So giving "family names" to bastards which were not even the name of families was double dumb. I should call him GDDM
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Jun 6, 2018 15:54:23 GMT
That stupid stigma business is the first problem. This is a modern leftard's fantasy, all set to point out anything that doesn't follow their stinking egalitarian dogma. Bastards of noble family never had to live with a "stigma", they were simply not eligible to direct inheritance when legitimate children existed but enjoyed all the privileges of being high-born. William the Conqueror was a bastard. He was 8 when his father died without other children and his relatives tried to take advantage of his age to seize the cake but he found help with none other then the king of France and finally came to keep the duchy of Normandy. There was no stupid "War of the Five Dukes", no uncle or cousin calling himself "the Righful Heir", only a bunch of opportunists taking their chances. William knew and loved his servant mother. These people had no family names, by the way. The noble were know by the places they ruled, so William was William of Normandy before he became William of England, and the commoners were usually known by their profession when needed (which was not often): John the smith, Harry the potter etc… I'm not sure when family names started to stick. It happened quite late, maybe sometime in the 15th century. So giving "family names" to bastards which were not even the name of families was double dumb. I should call him GDDM Oh, interesting. Thanks for sharing. I didn't know about this. It was an interesting read. I think part of the problem though is trying to place our world's history within the confines of Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire. How the world operates is based significantly on the customs/outlook people hold. In our world, bastards had more freedom. Within GOT though, they don't. Perhaps if anything is left of the world at the end of this last season, then things can change for bastards since Jon went from bastard to king and Ramsay went from bastard to Warden of the North.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jun 6, 2018 17:01:38 GMT
I think part of the problem though is trying to place our world's history within the confines of Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire. How the world operates is based significantly on the customs/outlook people hold. In our world, bastards had more freedom. Within GOT though, they don't. Perhaps if anything is left of the world at the end of this last season, then things can change for bastards since Jon went from bastard to king and Ramsay went from bastard to Warden of the North. GRRM's world doesn't make sense. His implied rules about bastards come out of the blue (actually directly out of his silly political views). The idea of legitimate children is something that the church somehow influenced sometime in the 9th or 10th century. I'm terribly vague on this because I have yet to read the original sources - I really should go through this stuff rather than discussing GDDM's fuck-ups. This time sees the emergence of the feudal society and the 9th century is the last example of the major split of an empire between three brothers (Charlemagne's supposed grandchildren). The 10th century kept seeing wars between brothers or half-brothers in Europe and this is the time when feudal lords, of whatever rank, are being advised by clerks and bishops with more effect than ever before. I have yet to figure out how this change of importance came to be (history of these times is a mess, not to be fully trusted), but it is my impression that the very idea of legal marriage before the church and legitimacy of children with regards to succession takes form then. The unruly kings and lords or Germanic descent (Franks, Saxons, Angles…) are being educated and taught to follow stricter rules than the ancestral ones which would have made any natural child of a king a legitimate pretender to a share of his father's kingdom before (as an aside, "king" means "of the kin"; any male descendent of a king could be made king himself). The motivation behind it all, as often with the Christian church, is stability and peace but also the "common good" of the collective at the cost of the sense of private property of the rulers. This "left" vs "right" opposition did not appear with the French revolution, only its terms were coined then. The collective against the individual is older than history itself and we see here that the Christian church was the "left" then, as it already was in the 4th century. Ruling illegitimate children out of succession prospects and having kingdoms passed on un-fragmented to a unique heir was a way of avoiding conflicts.
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Jun 6, 2018 18:16:25 GMT
I think part of the problem though is trying to place our world's history within the confines of Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire. How the world operates is based significantly on the customs/outlook people hold. In our world, bastards had more freedom. Within GOT though, they don't. Perhaps if anything is left of the world at the end of this last season, then things can change for bastards since Jon went from bastard to king and Ramsay went from bastard to Warden of the North. GRRM's world doesn't make sense. His implied rules about bastards come out of the blue (actually directly out of his silly political views). The idea of legitimate children is something that the church somehow influenced sometime in the 9th or 10th century. I'm terribly vague on this because I have yet to read the original sources - I really should go through this stuff rather than discussing GDDM's fuck-ups. This time sees the emergence of the feudal society and the 9th century is the last example of the major split of an empire between three brothers (Charlemagne's supposed grandchildren). The 10th century kept seeing wars between brothers or half-brothers in Europe and this is the time when feudal lords, of whatever rank, are being advised by clerks and bishops with more effect than ever before. I have yet to figure out how this change of importance came to be (history of these times is a mess, not to be fully trusted), but it is my impression that the very idea of legal marriage before the church and legitimacy of children with regards to succession takes form then. The unruly kings and lords or Germanic descent (Franks, Saxons, Angles…) are being educated and taught to follow stricter rules than the ancestral ones which would have made any natural child of a king a legitimate pretender to a share of his father's kingdom before (as an aside, "king" means "of the kin"; any male descendent of a king could be made king himself). The motivation behind it all, as often with the Christian church, is stability and peace but also the "common good" of the collective at the cost of the sense of private property of the rulers. This "left" vs "right" opposition did not appear with the French revolution, only its terms were coined then. The collective against the individual is older than history itself and we see here that the Christian church was the "left" then, as it already was in the 4th century. Ruling illegitimate children out of succession prospects and having kingdoms passed on un-fragmented to a unique heir was a way of avoiding conflicts. If you think about the setting of the story, Westeros is on the verge of a religious takeover from the start. It only takes Cersei empowering the wrong individuals for them to about to overthrow/dismantle everything they find to be "impure", which includes such things brothels, feudalism's hierarchy (outside of the church's power of course), etc. Like Oberyn says, Essos is a lot more open when it comes to sexuality than Westeros. The latter seems to be much more prudish so it make "sense" in terms of the views of the people bastards are looked down on by them. They were born out wedlock and not something to be a part of "civilized society." It's one of the reasons why Jon Snow isn't allowed to attend dinner when Robert/Cersei go to Winterfell - they don't want Cat to be insulted in front of guests. I agree with what you said though, but even our world, there's a lot of stuff that's complete nonsense with how our civilization operates. I suppose it makes sense that GOT does too.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jun 6, 2018 18:36:40 GMT
GRRM's world doesn't make sense. His implied rules about bastards come out of the blue (actually directly out of his silly political views). If you think about the setting of the story, Westeros is on the verge of a religious takeover from the start. It only takes Cersei empowering the wrong individuals for them to about to overthrow/dismantle everything they find to be "impure", which includes such things brothels, feudalism's hierarchy (outside of the church's power of course), etc. Like Oberyn says, Essos is a lot more open when it comes to sexuality than Westeros. The latter seems to be much more prudish so it make "sense" in terms of the views of the people bastards are looked down on by them. They were born out wedlock and not something to be a part of "civilized society." It's one of the reasons why Jon Snow isn't allowed to attend dinner when Robert/Cersei go to Winterfell - they don't want Cat to be insulted in front of guests. I agree with what you said though, but even our world, there's a lot of stuff that's complete nonsense with how our civilization operates. I suppose it makes sense that GOT does too. The religious takeover of the early middle ages was not one of violence. It was not a stinking revolution of "the many against the few", it was a true collaboration based on persuasion and a shared desired for stability as well as morals. Rulers do not want to be at war all their lives, do not want to see their children fight over their heritage either and they also believed in being better than just thugs in power. The faith and the crown, pillars of the world, were a reality with positive consequences, not a fancy formula used for political schemes as the GoT writers make it. Sexual openness is the new craze of leftards. Of course these shits will portray a foreign culture as "better" (on their own scale of values) than the one they set to criticise, which is the parallel to their own. Everything GRRM writes is the drivel of a modern "progressive" stuck in medieval looking costumes. He doesn't care if that medieval world works in a logical way, he only wants to express his own "modern" thoughts and fantasies through it.
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Post by simplemoviecommenter on Jun 7, 2018 0:36:51 GMT
Yes and no.
The names of places can be so literal.
The North. Why? Because its north. Its not even something fancy like "Norsca".
Bear Island. Why? Because it has bears.
Riverlands and Riverrun. Why? Because its a land of rivers and the capital is where rivers run.
King's Landing. Why? Because its where the first king landed.
Crownlands. Why? Because its land close enough to be ruled directly by the crown.
Highgarden. Why? Because its high and it has gardens.
Oldtown. Why? Because its that fucking old.
Shipbreaker Bay. Why? Because its a bay where ships break.
Sunspear. Why? Because the Martells have no fucking imagination.
Plankytown. WHY? This makes me cringe. Because its a harbor town with no imagination.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jun 7, 2018 2:59:15 GMT
The names of places can be so literal. That's how places usually get named anywhere. New Hampshire, New York, New Orleans, New Zealand are not exactly original names. Colonia (Köln/Cologne) was a Roman colony. The French Provence was a Roman "provincia". East Anglia is where the Angles settled down sometime after the 6th century. The French Normandy is where Northmen settled down in the 10th century. Alexandria and Constantinople were named after powerful rulers who decided to move there. Is Arizona anything but an arid zone? King's Landing has become a tasteless joke. I propose Cerseipolis. Or Lionden.
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 16, 2018 11:25:09 GMT
Very Greek , names daenyrys has Greek roots from Greek goddess Diana I never heard before of names Sansa, cersei, Tyrion, Daenerys could also come from Danaë, although I see to further connection. Cersei is obviously inspired from Circe. Just saw the movie Ulysses (1954) in which Silvana Mangano plays double role, one of them being Circe. She refers to herself as Circe the Goddess but Ulyssess calls her Circe the witch. The pronunciation was exactly the same as Cersei.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 16, 2018 11:45:35 GMT
Daenerys could also come from Danaë, although I see to further connection. Cersei is obviously inspired from Circe. Just saw the movie Ulysses (1954) in which Silvana Mangano plays double role, one of them being Circe. She refers to herself as Circe the Goddess but Ulyssess calls her Circe the witch. The pronunciation was exactly the same as Cersei. Goddess is the proper term.
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