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Post by xystophoros on Jun 14, 2018 1:34:28 GMT
We’re talking about a guy batting .228 in mid-June, a season and a half removed from a year when he hit .243. He’s never knocked in 100 RBI in six seasons despite having favorable position in the lineup, and in two of his previous four seasons he’s had OPS OF .768 and .814: www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/harpebr03.shtmlOr to think about it in relative terms, the Yankees’ deal with ARod was a disaster, but they got 7 seasons of 100+ RBI, 8 seasons of 30+ HR, two MVP seasons and a championship out of ARod. I don’t think Harper comes close to those numbers under even the most optimistic circumstances. We’ve heard six years of hype about how he’s he best player in MLB, but he sure as hell doesn’t belong in the same conversation as Mike Trout I don’t believe any player is worth $400 million, and tying up that much money in one player is a guaranteed way to cripple your franchise when that player suffers an injury, or when he inevitably loses a step and becomes a shadow of what he once was. Whoever pays Harper $400m, if anyone does, will be damning themselves to mediocrity. |
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Post by NJtoTX on Jun 14, 2018 1:46:37 GMT
"Last week, I was asked whether Washington nationals superstar Bryce Harper was overrated. I gave my answer, then I received three text messages from a top National League executive with his answer: Text one: “He’s simply overrated. The good ain’t worth the bad. He’s a losing player. Cares about himself more than the team. If I was in charge and had money, my team would not pursue him. We would use that money to sign 2-3 winning players.” Text two: “He’s a losing player. I would not sign him. I would use that money to sign 2-3 winning players.” Text three: “If he gets more than 10-years, $300 million, I’d be surprised. I would not give him 10 years period and certainly not at that AAV. He’s just not worth it. He’s a selfish, losing player.” www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/nationals-gm-mike-rizzo-defends-bryce-harper-against-cowardly-and-chicken-s-unnamed-sources/ |
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Post by xystophoros on Jun 14, 2018 3:50:41 GMT
That CBS article is hilarious, saying Harper’s got a “respectable .801 OPS” in the playoffs.
Yes, respectable if he’s your third or fourth offensive option, or if you don’t expect much from him. But a supposed $400 million player putting up .801 OPS in the postseason is shit.
The author also says Harper is a $400m guy as if it already happened, as if he’d already put pen to paper for some idiot franchise like the Dodgers or Seattle. It’s like Harper has that $400m figure in his head, he tells his agent that, his agent declares he’s worth that much, and sports media reports it like fact.
This past offseason teams were a lot more careful, and after all the ridiculous long-term deals that haven’t worked out — ARod, Pujols, Greinke, Ryan Howard and many more — more teams seem to be playing it smart and staying away from that kind of lunacy:
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Post by NewtJorden on Jun 14, 2018 18:36:22 GMT
We’re talking about a guy batting .228 in mid-June, a season and a half removed from a year when he hit .243. He’s never knocked in 100 RBI in six seasons despite having favorable position in the lineup, and in two of his previous four seasons he’s had OPS OF .768 and .814: www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/harpebr03.shtmlOr to think about it in relative terms, the Yankees’ deal with ARod was a disaster, but they got 7 seasons of 100+ RBI, 8 seasons of 30+ HR, two MVP seasons and a championship out of ARod. I don’t think Harper comes close to those numbers under even the most optimistic circumstances. We’ve heard six years of hype about how he’s he best player in MLB, but he sure as hell doesn’t belong in the same conversation as Mike Trout I don’t believe any player is worth $400 million, and tying up that much money in one player is a guaranteed way to cripple your franchise when that player suffers an injury, or when he inevitably loses a step and becomes a shadow of what he once was. Whoever pays Harper $400m, if anyone does, will be damning themselves to mediocrity.
The Yankees wont care when they give him just that. |
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jun 14, 2018 18:48:16 GMT
I wouldn't give anyone a 10-year, $400 million deal. That's basically a guarantee that they'll no longer be as productive as they had been, if it's not a guarantee that they'll wind up with some serious injury that sidelines them for at least a year or two, or they'll be in the middle of some major scandal or busted for PEDs or something.
Not that players unions would ever go for this, but I've said it before and I'll say it many times again: I'd love to see sports go to a system where players are paid based on their performance per game--almost like getting a commission per game. You want to see play improve? That would do it. And base the commission on the recipts for that game--people at the game, concessions revenue, advertising revenue, and wagers now that sports betting will be legal, and that will really make games more exciting.
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Post by xystophoros on Jun 14, 2018 18:56:33 GMT
We’re talking about a guy batting .228 in mid-June, a season and a half removed from a year when he hit .243. He’s never knocked in 100 RBI in six seasons despite having favorable position in the lineup, and in two of his previous four seasons he’s had OPS OF .768 and .814: www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/harpebr03.shtmlOr to think about it in relative terms, the Yankees’ deal with ARod was a disaster, but they got 7 seasons of 100+ RBI, 8 seasons of 30+ HR, two MVP seasons and a championship out of ARod. I don’t think Harper comes close to those numbers under even the most optimistic circumstances. We’ve heard six years of hype about how he’s he best player in MLB, but he sure as hell doesn’t belong in the same conversation as Mike Trout I don’t believe any player is worth $400 million, and tying up that much money in one player is a guaranteed way to cripple your franchise when that player suffers an injury, or when he inevitably loses a step and becomes a shadow of what he once was. Whoever pays Harper $400m, if anyone does, will be damning themselves to mediocrity.
The Yankees wont care when they give him just that. They won’t. They already have too much money tied up in that awful Stanton contract, although even with that contract they don’t pay it all because Miami is on the hook for part of it. |
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Post by Xeliou66 on Jun 14, 2018 18:58:45 GMT
I’ve said for a long time Bryce Harper is overrated and gets way too much love from the media. He’s incredibly inconsistent, and he isn’t anywhere near as good as Trout, they don’t even belong in the same conversation, besides Harper is a bit of a diva it seems.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jun 14, 2018 19:03:33 GMT
We’re talking about a guy batting .228 in mid-June, a season and a half removed from a year when he hit .243. He’s never knocked in 100 RBI in six seasons despite having favorable position in the lineup, and in two of his previous four seasons he’s had OPS OF .768 and .814: www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/harpebr03.shtmlOr to think about it in relative terms, the Yankees’ deal with ARod was a disaster, but they got 7 seasons of 100+ RBI, 8 seasons of 30+ HR, two MVP seasons and a championship out of ARod. I don’t think Harper comes close to those numbers under even the most optimistic circumstances. We’ve heard six years of hype about how he’s he best player in MLB, but he sure as hell doesn’t belong in the same conversation as Mike Trout I don’t believe any player is worth $400 million, and tying up that much money in one player is a guaranteed way to cripple your franchise when that player suffers an injury, or when he inevitably loses a step and becomes a shadow of what he once was. Whoever pays Harper $400m, if anyone does, will be damning themselves to mediocrity.
The Yankees wont care when they give him just that. Yankees won't. The common perception is that the Yankees throw money around like drunken housewives. They do at times, but they have lived within a et payroll cap. Their little mini-slump from 2013-2016 was due to crippling contracts, A-Ron, Jeter, Teixeira, et al. They didn't paper over holes with more money because they didn't want a total payroll to cripple the team further down the road. And they won't do it now. They already have one doozy, Stanton. And the Yanks dream of Judge, Severino, Sanchez and Co. staying in the Bronx for all time. They will get paid down the road and the team can't be hamstrung by Harper. A player the don't need. Not sue who will. Cubs are possible, but they face a similar situation. Sign Harper and find you can't afford Bryant? I'd bet on the Phillies or Dodgers. The Phils have a payroll the size of a small car wash and can afford to be silly. And the Dodgers do have a bottomless pit on money. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 14, 2018 19:06:23 GMT
I’ve said for a long time Bryce Harper is overrated and gets way too much love from the media. He’s incredibly inconsistent, and he isn’t anywhere near as good as Trout, they don’t even belong in the same conversation, besides Harper is a bit of a diva it seems. I feel like this used to be the case, but not so much recently. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 19:54:59 GMT
The Yankees wont care when they give him just that. Yankees won't. The common perception is that the Yankees throw money around like drunken housewives. They do at times, but they have lived within a et payroll cap. Their little mini-slump from 2013-2016 was due to crippling contracts, A-Ron, Jeter, Teixeira, et al. They didn't paper over holes with more money because they didn't want a total payroll to cripple the team further down the road. And they won't do it now. They already have one doozy, Stanton. And the Yanks dream of Judge, Severino, Sanchez and Co. staying in the Bronx for all time. They will get paid down the road and the team can't be hamstrung by Harper. A player the don't need. Not sue who will. Cubs are possible, but they face a similar situation. Sign Harper and find you can't afford Bryant? I'd bet on the Phillies or Dodgers. The Phils have a payroll the size of a small car wash and can afford to be silly. And the Dodgers do have a bottomless pit on money. get ready for manny machado and bryce harper highway billboards lined all up and down I-95 in the Philly Tri-State area come Christmas time (Winter Meetings) - that is of course if there's room inbetween all of the LeBron James in a Sixers jersey billboard signs   |
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jun 14, 2018 19:55:31 GMT
I wouldn't give anyone a 10-year, $400 million deal. That's basically a guarantee that they'll no longer be as productive as they had been, if it's not a guarantee that they'll wind up with some serious injury that sidelines them for at least a year or two, or they'll be in the middle of some major scandal or busted for PEDs or something. Not that players unions would ever go for this, but I've said it before and I'll say it many times again: I'd love to see sports go to a system where players are paid based on their performance per game--almost like getting a commission per game. You want to see play improve? That would do it. And base the commission on the recipts for that game--people at the game, concessions revenue, advertising revenue, and wagers now that sports betting will be legal, and that will really make games more exciting. Not that it has any chance of happening, but the commission thing won’t work. Players will do things to pad stats regardless of game situations. Guy on second needs to buy a boat? Sure, try to steal third with two outs and down by 3 in the 8th. Manager wants you to bunt? Fuck that go for the home run. It will never work. |
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Post by xystophoros on Jun 14, 2018 20:01:00 GMT
The Yankees wont care when they give him just that. Yankees won't. The common perception is that the Yankees throw money around like drunken housewives. They do at times, but they have lived within a et payroll cap. Their little mini-slump from 2013-2016 was due to crippling contracts, A-Ron, Jeter, Teixeira, et al. They didn't paper over holes with more money because they didn't want a total payroll to cripple the team further down the road. And they won't do it now. They already have one doozy, Stanton. And the Yanks dream of Judge, Severino, Sanchez and Co. staying in the Bronx for all time. They will get paid down the road and the team can't be hamstrung by Harper. A player the don't need. Not sue who will. Cubs are possible, but they face a similar situation. Sign Harper and find you can't afford Bryant? I'd bet on the Phillies or Dodgers. The Phils have a payroll the size of a small car wash and can afford to be silly. And the Dodgers do have a bottomless pit on money. My money is on the Dodgers, but you’re right, the Phillies might be stupid enough to do it even after that disaster with Ryan Howard. Regardless, I don’t think he gets anywhere near $400m. Jake Arrieta was adamant on $200m or more on a long-term contract and he got 3 years, $75m this offseason, when a lot of teams were much more cautious than they have been in recent years. He’s not alone. Plenty of guys got less than they thought. Just look at the Angels and what they could have been if they didn’t give all that money to Pujols, a lying piece of shit who is three years older than he says he is and has been providing them with a negative WAR this year and last. That has major consequences for Mike Trout as well, as his career may have looked a lot different by this point if even half that Pujols money was used on two good players. He’s great, yes, but he could have had major postseason experience and success by this point without that financial dead weight hurting the team. |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jun 14, 2018 20:44:38 GMT
Yankees won't. The common perception is that the Yankees throw money around like drunken housewives. They do at times, but they have lived within a et payroll cap. Their little mini-slump from 2013-2016 was due to crippling contracts, A-Ron, Jeter, Teixeira, et al. They didn't paper over holes with more money because they didn't want a total payroll to cripple the team further down the road. And they won't do it now. They already have one doozy, Stanton. And the Yanks dream of Judge, Severino, Sanchez and Co. staying in the Bronx for all time. They will get paid down the road and the team can't be hamstrung by Harper. A player the don't need. Not sue who will. Cubs are possible, but they face a similar situation. Sign Harper and find you can't afford Bryant? I'd bet on the Phillies or Dodgers. The Phils have a payroll the size of a small car wash and can afford to be silly. And the Dodgers do have a bottomless pit on money. get ready for manny machado and bryce harper highway billboards lined all up and down I-95 in the Philly Tri-State area come Christmas time (Winter Meetings) - that is of course if there's room inbetween all of the LeBron James in a Sixers jersey billboard signs Yeah, $800,000,000 in contracts (machado will get close tho Harper money, he deserves it). Now, what could go wring with that? With one class starter? Phillies could be the Texas Rangers of the A-Rod days. Every game, hoping to win 10-9 every game and praying for someone to take the shitty contracts off their hands. And finding the Red Sox and/or Yanks aren't there to do it. |
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jun 14, 2018 20:49:38 GMT
I wouldn't give anyone a 10-year, $400 million deal. That's basically a guarantee that they'll no longer be as productive as they had been, if it's not a guarantee that they'll wind up with some serious injury that sidelines them for at least a year or two, or they'll be in the middle of some major scandal or busted for PEDs or something. Not that players unions would ever go for this, but I've said it before and I'll say it many times again: I'd love to see sports go to a system where players are paid based on their performance per game--almost like getting a commission per game. You want to see play improve? That would do it. And base the commission on the recipts for that game--people at the game, concessions revenue, advertising revenue, and wagers now that sports betting will be legal, and that will really make games more exciting. Not that it has any chance of happening, but the commission thing won’t work. Players will do things to pad stats regardless of game situations. Guy on second needs to buy a boat? Sure, try to steal third with two outs and down by 3 in the 8th. Manager wants you to bunt? Fuck that go for the home run. It will never work. If you blow the game you're not going to be paid well. So people wouldn't take unreasonable chances. Of course, people may take risks that will win games, and that's a good thing. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 21:28:52 GMT
get ready for manny machado and bryce harper highway billboards lined all up and down I-95 in the Philly Tri-State area come Christmas time (Winter Meetings) - that is of course if there's room inbetween all of the LeBron James in a Sixers jersey billboard signs Yeah, $800,000,000 in contracts (machado will get close tho Harper money, he deserves it). Now, what could go wring with that? With one class starter? Phillies could be the Texas Rangers of the A-Rod days. Every game, hoping to win 10-9 every game and praying for someone to take the shitty contracts off their hands. And finding the Red Sox and/or Yanks aren't there to do it. I've always had a sense Hamels is coming home this year via the trade deadline. Granted he's having a 'down' year and getting older - but doesn't need to be that 'Ace' anymore. #3 starter? Sounds good to me coming up and rejuvinating his career - he loves it here. So I'm speculating here too. Nola, Arietta, Hamels - with a young core to go along with Machado and Harper. They've got the coin like you stated above and the assets...... |
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jun 14, 2018 21:36:39 GMT
Yeah, $800,000,000 in contracts (machado will get close tho Harper money, he deserves it). Now, what could go wring with that? With one class starter? Phillies could be the Texas Rangers of the A-Rod days. Every game, hoping to win 10-9 every game and praying for someone to take the shitty contracts off their hands. And finding the Red Sox and/or Yanks aren't there to do it. I've always had a sense Hamels is coming home this year via the trade deadline. Granted he's having a 'down' year and getting older - but doesn't need to be that 'Ace' anymore. #3 starter? Sounds good to me coming up and rejuvinating his career - he loves it here. So I'm speculating here too. Nola, Arietta, Hamels - with a young core to go along with Machado and Harper. They've got the coin like you stated above and the assets...... I like Hamels as much as any Phillie fan, but what do you think he would contribute? This is 2018 Cole, not 2008 Cole. He wants to retire here? Great, love to have him. But he isn’t the Astros getting Verlander. |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jun 14, 2018 21:51:27 GMT
Yeah, $800,000,000 in contracts (machado will get close tho Harper money, he deserves it). Now, what could go wring with that? With one class starter? Phillies could be the Texas Rangers of the A-Rod days. Every game, hoping to win 10-9 every game and praying for someone to take the shitty contracts off their hands. And finding the Red Sox and/or Yanks aren't there to do it. I've always had a sense Hamels is coming home this year via the trade deadline. Granted he's having a 'down' year and getting older - but doesn't need to be that 'Ace' anymore. #3 starter? Sounds good to me coming up and rejuvinating his career - he loves it here. So I'm speculating here too. Nola, Arietta, Hamels - with a young core to go along with Machado and Harper. They've got the coin like you stated above and the assets...... Phiiles sign them both and they put all their future into those two players. Both are going to want 10 years and will get at least eight. One huge contract for a player who's starting to look like Dave Kingman. Want 10 years of .225 hitting? And neither can pitch. Hamels is a possibility, but the Yankees will probably get him by the trading deadline and take his 2019 option. And Philly's in house options are all that great. Nola is Nola. Arrieta is old. Nick Pivetta has big league stuff but time's ticking, At 25, he should start to show in. They have one big time prospect, Sixto Sanchez, but he's 19. 2-3 years at least. Phiiles should take Machado. He can play either short or third, if JP Crawford decides he is a MLB player. I wouldn't touch Harper and I sure as shit would splurge on both, Just because you have money, doesn't mean you should spend it. And even if Phillies sign both, I'd put my money on Atlanta as the future on the NL East. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 21:53:21 GMT
I've always had a sense Hamels is coming home this year via the trade deadline. Granted he's having a 'down' year and getting older - but doesn't need to be that 'Ace' anymore. #3 starter? Sounds good to me coming up and rejuvinating his career - he loves it here. So I'm speculating here too. Nola, Arietta, Hamels - with a young core to go along with Machado and Harper. They've got the coin like you stated above and the assets...... I like Hamels as much as any Phillie fan, but what do you think he would contribute? This is 2018 Cole, not 2008 Cole. He wants to retire here? Great, love to have him. But he isn’t the Astros getting Verlander. Texas is in last place buried in the AL West and he's having a down year. It wouldn't take much to bring him home. A couple of 2nd tier mid level prospects in Double A? He's the Prodigal Son - I still remember that story of how he was in the minors here and he was a 'hothead' and broke his hand punching a wall and was immature. Really? Showed throughout his career his was nothing but a class act and a model citizen and a leader. Makes me laugh just like all of the rumors of how Ben Simmons was lazy and selfish. If I'm Phils brass and they're still in the hunt for a WC come trade deadline - middle of summer and you want to f(ph)ill CBP - bring him home. Standing ovation and and epic moment - one of the greatest Phils ever. |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jun 14, 2018 22:06:23 GMT
I like Hamels as much as any Phillie fan, but what do you think he would contribute? This is 2018 Cole, not 2008 Cole. He wants to retire here? Great, love to have him. But he isn’t the Astros getting Verlander. Texas is in last place buried in the AL West and he's having a down year. It wouldn't take much to bring him home. A couple of 2nd tier mid level prospects in Double A? Yankees will outbid the Phillies. Like Philly has money, Yanks have prospects. And, if I'm reading his contact info right, he has a $20 million team option with a $6 million buyout. Sweet. If he's great, pick up the option, if he sucks, cut him a check and wave bye-bye. Yanks HAVE to pick up a quality starters and there aren't a lot out there. You can forget the DeGrom/Syndergaard/Bumgarner bullshit rumors. Unless the Yanks send three of their top five prospects, none of them are moving to the Bronx. So who else? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 22:16:33 GMT
Texas is in last place buried in the AL West and he's having a down year. It wouldn't take much to bring him home. A couple of 2nd tier mid level prospects in Double A? Yankees will outbid the Phillies. Like Philly has money, Yanks have prospects. And, if I'm reading his contact info right, he has a $20 million team option with a $6 million buyout. Sweet. If he's great, pick up the option, if he sucks, cut him a check and wave bye-bye. Yanks HAVE to pick up a quality starters and there aren't a lot out there. You can forget the DeGrom/Syndergaard/Bumgarner bullshit rumors. Unless the Yanks send three of their top five prospects, none of them are moving to the Bronx. So who else? Perhaps. But Cole loves it here. And we love Cole. Maybe it's just a situation where Cole wants to 'Go Home'. |
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