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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 15, 2018 15:15:55 GMT
You know Athena was fictional, right? As if that matters to the point that was raised. Why did Homer, a Greek, depict one of the characters with grey eyes or not black as you seem to assume was essential? I think you must assume all Greeks must look a certain way-and it sounds like you think all Italians look like they came from Sicily too.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jun 15, 2018 16:45:46 GMT
I guess that'd make just as little sense. Only if you want to recreate reality along SJW ideology-which appears to be the case. So it wouldn't even make that little sense. Gotcha.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jun 15, 2018 16:49:28 GMT
You know Athena was fictional, right? As if that matters to the point that was raised. Why did Homer, a Greek, depict one of the characters with grey eyes or not black as you seem to assume was essential? I think you must assume all Greeks must look a certain way-and it sounds like you think all Italians look like they came from Sicily too.
You must assume fictional characters must look like real people. Is that why Paul Bunyan was ten stories tall? Using a fictional character to depict a real peoples, not the best argument. Or are all those blonde haired, light skinned pictures of Jesus indicative of the middle eastern people?
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 15, 2018 16:50:13 GMT
So it wouldn't even make that little sense. Gotcha. I know it goes over your head so I will try it this way: that scene in Scream where Neve Campbell is able to move her father while tied up into a hallway closet by herself. That is an example of the physics problem I am talking about. You can also call it common sense if you prefer.
Physics, gravity, common sense, it gets you to the same conclusion.
There are certain expectations one has, like health is more advantageous than sickness, or strength has more advantages in a conflict than weakness--this also involves common sense observation and experience. Immutable truths.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 15, 2018 16:52:09 GMT
You must assume fictional characters must look like real people. Is that why Paul Bunyan was ten stories tall? Using a fictional character to depict a real peoples, not the best argument. Or are all those blonde haired, light skinned pictures of Jesus indicative of the middle eastern people? You implied that light skinned, light haired people were unknown in the time of Homer and thus would not be referenced in his work. That is ignorance on your part. But you haven't read the Iliad so what can I expect from you? Not much as we have seen.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jun 18, 2018 13:10:46 GMT
You must assume fictional characters must look like real people. Is that why Paul Bunyan was ten stories tall? Using a fictional character to depict a real peoples, not the best argument. Or are all those blonde haired, light skinned pictures of Jesus indicative of the middle eastern people? You implied that light skinned, light haired people were unknown in the time of Homer and thus would not be referenced in his work. That is ignorance on your part. But you haven't read the Iliad so what can I expect from you? Not much as we have seen.
Incorrect on all of that. Again, just don't use fictional people to try and prove something in reality. Superman's not a good representation of native Kansas.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jun 18, 2018 13:11:46 GMT
So it wouldn't even make that little sense. Gotcha. I know it goes over your head so I will try it this way: that scene in Scream where Neve Campbell is able to move her father while tied up into a hallway closet by herself. That is an example of the physics problem I am talking about. You can also call it common sense if you prefer.
Physics, gravity, common sense, it gets you to the same conclusion.
There are certain expectations one has, like health is more advantageous than sickness, or strength has more advantages in a conflict than weakness--this also involves common sense observation and experience. Immutable truths.
None of that has anything to do with what you think you're saying.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 18, 2018 15:52:40 GMT
Incorrect on all of that. Again, just don't use fictional people to try and prove something in reality. Superman's not a good representation of native Kansas. That's is exaggeration on your part. If I want to prove that Hollywood does not want to show normal or positive white male characters in stores-and someone says "but Superman was positive" I would say "yeah, but he's technically an alien."
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 18, 2018 15:54:43 GMT
None of that has anything to do with what you think you're saying. Yes it does. You just cannot refute it. I ask you to explain how she moved her father into the closet--you change the subject. I'll do you one better though. They could have kept him out of the picture--just by knocking him unconscious in the kitchen. Why didnt they? Because they wanted the jumpscare and or because they wanted to show him helpless for one last jab at the patriarchy. There's no other scenario possible to explain it.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jun 18, 2018 16:11:14 GMT
None of that has anything to do with what you think you're saying. Yes it does. You just cannot refute it. I ask you to explain how she moved her father into the closet--you change the subject. I'll do you one better though. They could have kept him out of the picture--just by knocking him unconscious in the kitchen. Why didnt they? Because they wanted the jumpscare and or because they wanted to show him helpless for one last jab at the patriarchy. There's no other scenario possible to explain it.
Very good. You understand a simple movie trope.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jun 18, 2018 16:19:28 GMT
Incorrect on all of that. Again, just don't use fictional people to try and prove something in reality. Superman's not a good representation of native Kansas. That's is exaggeration on your part.
Nope, it's exactly what you tried to do by bringing up a greek god. You can show them any of the thousands upon thousands of movies that Hollywood has made over the past hundred years.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 18, 2018 16:22:50 GMT
Very good. You understand a simple movie trope. But that doesn't explain why they had her drag him to the closet-especially when the shtick of Scream was to defy standard slasher movie conventions. The jump scare is hardly worth the breaking of physical laws concerning the carrying of weight across space so there has to be a political/ideological motivation. If it was the only film to do that with father characters, then it would mean nothing, but there is a long history of it so it is an identifiable pattern.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 18, 2018 16:25:24 GMT
Nope, it's exactly what you tried to do by bringing up a greek god. I know this will go over your head but just to reiterate, you said blonde and blue eyes was alien to greeks-this is what you implied, and yet a 2000 year old Greek poem references light features. This was the relevance. Because it defied your argument, you had to move the goal post. I see you are one of those who enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jun 18, 2018 16:31:52 GMT
Very good. You understand a simple movie trope. The jump scare is hardly worth the breaking of physical laws concerning the carrying of weight across space so there has to be a political/ideological motivation.
Disagree, unless you have the producers/writers' statements to back that up. Well that's not entirely true. The shtick was to play with the tropes, not avert them entirely.
Sidney still runs up the stairs even though she pointed out how dumb that is. The killer still does the last jump scare at the end.
It's a far shorter history than the dead mother pattern.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jun 18, 2018 16:33:35 GMT
Nope, it's exactly what you tried to do by bringing up a greek god. I know this will go over your head but just to reiterate, you said blonde and blue eyes was alien to greeks-this is what you implied, and yet a 2000 year old Greek poem references light features. This was the relevance. Because it defied your argument, you had to move the goal post. I see you are one of those who enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing.
Nope. I said no such thing. Just that Athena was fictional. Don't use fiction to prove a point in the real world.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 18, 2018 16:42:29 GMT
Nope. I said no such thing. Just that Athena was fictional. Don't use fiction to prove a point in the real world. You did. I could have just said there are blonde blue eyed Greeks walking around today but there is less fun in that. Better to use literary sources form the time in question.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jun 18, 2018 16:48:07 GMT
Nope. I said no such thing. Just that Athena was fictional. Don't use fiction to prove a point in the real world. You did. I could have just said there are blonde blue eyed Greeks walking around today but there is less fun in that. Better to use literary sources form the time in question.
Fictional characters and not historical records, right?
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 18, 2018 17:07:39 GMT
Fictional characters and not historical records, right? Using the most famous work of Greek culture in antiquity as a source for attitudes on appearance and behavior traits? Oh right-you probably think Classical Studies is about piano music.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jun 18, 2018 18:12:48 GMT
Fictional characters and not historical records, right? Using the most famous work of Greek culture in antiquity as a source for attitudes on appearance and behavior traits? Oh right-you probably think Classical Studies is about piano music.
But not using the actual orators, right? Or the countless real historical figures?
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 18, 2018 18:18:33 GMT
But not using the actual orators, right? Or the countless real historical figures? I think on a movie forum using a cultural work is more appropriate and also less boring.
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