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Post by merh on Jun 15, 2018 15:11:31 GMT
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jun 16, 2018 10:51:12 GMT
I would actually support this.
Rather have him go crazy with Star Wars than have Disney remake everything.
So yeah I'm #TeamGeorge
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Post by politicidal on Jun 17, 2018 22:34:44 GMT
It'd be different but can't say I'd be interested.
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Post by audiosane on Jun 18, 2018 1:07:03 GMT
Meh. There's more than one way to ruin Star Wars. |
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Post by merh on Jun 18, 2018 7:37:13 GMT
What is it that Marvel Fanboys have embraced Disney owning Marvel & releasing 3 films a year but Star Wars fanboys cant even accept 1 movie per year?
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Post by alpha128 on Jun 18, 2018 11:14:47 GMT
What is it that Marvel Fanboys have embraced Disney owning Marvel & releasing 3 films a year but Star Wars fanboys cant even accept 1 movie per year? 1. Respects the fans 2. Makes films that generally feel like a consistent, continuing narrative 3. Generally makes good movies that fans like. The lowest Audience Score for a Marvel movie is 71% for "The Incredible Hulk" (2008) Lucasfilm:1. Attacks the fans 2. Makes films that are anything but a consistent, continuing narrative 3. Makes movies of widely varying quality. The lowest Audience Score for a Star Wars movie is 46% for "The Last Jedi" (2017). So, it should be no surprise that the last two Marvel Studios films are the top two films of 2018, while the last Star Wars film isn't even in the top ten. |
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jun 18, 2018 11:37:12 GMT
What is it that Marvel Fanboys have embraced Disney owning Marvel & releasing 3 films a year but Star Wars fanboys cant even accept 1 movie per year? 1. Respects the fans 2. Makes films that generally feel like a consistent, continuing narrative 3. Generally makes good movies that fans like. The lowest Audience Score for a Marvel movie is 71% for "The Incredible Hulk" (2008) Lucasfilm:1. Attacks the fans 2. Makes films that are anything but a consistent, continuing narrative 3. Makes movies of widely varying quality. The lowest Audience Score for a Star Wars movie is 46% for "The Last Jedi" (2017). So, it should be no surprise that the last two Marvel Studios films are the top two films of 2018, while the last Star Wars film isn't even in the top ten. This. Say what you want about the Marvel movies at least the studio doesn't go around and accused the fans of racism or sexism for criticism towards the film |
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Post by merh on Jun 20, 2018 13:48:24 GMT
What is it that Marvel Fanboys have embraced Disney owning Marvel & releasing 3 films a year but Star Wars fanboys cant even accept 1 movie per year? 1. Respects the fans No. The issue is they are fans themselves. Feige has said they are making films they want to see. There was a lot of bitching about Marvel firing directors, but they need the finished product to put the characters where they need them to be for the next movie. They fired Patty Jenkins. They fired Edgar Wright. They need the narrative to fit their vision, not whatever grand vision a particular director has. The Star Wars fans are pretty annoying. The only worse one I see is horror movies. I like horror shows, but will not go to any boards for them. Star Wars is not as bad, but when they trash sn actress so harshly she quits social media, there's a problem. As an actor, she needs to self-promote. Most of them do it. Get the name out there like a small business needs to. My kid liked Last Jedi. I didn't but I am willing to see where they take it in the last film. On the other hand, Solo very much feels like the original trilogy, but fanboys are boycotting the movie with the white male lead to complson about black stormtroopers & female leads? I see 2 movies in the top 10 for the years they were released |
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Post by alpha128 on Jun 21, 2018 2:56:38 GMT
I agree that Kelly Marie Tran should not have been bullied on-line. But neither should Star Wars fans! J.J. Abrams said that: ‘Star Wars’ Fans Who Didn’t Like ‘Last Jedi’ Are ‘Threatened’ By Women Characters. I listed elsewhere on this forum my objections to "The Last Jedi", and the existence of strong female characters is not on my list. I loved "Black Panther" and saw it twice in theaters - that movie was full of strong female characters and people of color. Likewise, I loved "Deadpool 2" and saw it twice in theaters - that movie had a character who was a strong woman of color. Lucasfilm and their directors are bullying fans for voicing valid objections to their movies. 2. On the other hand, Solo very much feels like the original trilogy, but fanboys are boycotting the movie with the white male lead to complson (sic) about black stormtroopers & female leads? The boycott was not about race or gender. Again, I saw "Black Panther" twice and "Deadpool 2" twice. The boycott was about Lucasfilm refusing to acknowledge any criticism of "The Last Jedi", no matter how valid, and instead attacking their customers. The boycott was about if Lucasfilm won't pay attention to valid criticism, maybe they'll pay attention to a loss of $50 to $80 million at the box office. Here is the link I posted: www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/?view2=worldwide&yr=2018&p=.htmYou will note it says in the URL WORLDWIDE 2018. And if you click on it, which you evidently didn't do the first time, you'll see the following:
2018 WORLDWIDE GROSSES
Rank Title Studio* Worldwide Domestic / % Overseas / %
1 Avengers: Infinity War BV $2,022.0 $665.8 32.9% $1,356.1 67.1%
2 Black Panther BV $1,346.2 $699.6 52.0% $646.5 48.0%
3 Deadpool 2 Fox $692.1 $297.0 42.9% $395.1 57.1%
4 Ready Player One WB $581.5 $136.7 23.5% $444.8 76.5%
5 Operation Red Sea WGUSA $579.2 $1.5 0.3% $577.7 99.7%
6 Detective Chinatown 2 WB $544.1 $2.0 0.4% $542.1 99.6%
7 Rampage (2018) WB (NL) $421.9 $96.5 22.9% $325.4 77.1%
8 Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom Uni. $372.1 n/a 0.0% $372.1 100.0%
9 Fifty Shades Freed Uni. $370.6 $100.4 27.1% $270.2 72.9%
10 Monster Hunt 2 LGF $361.7 $0.7 0.2% $361.0 99.8%
11 Peter Rabbit Sony $348.9 $115.3 33.0% $233.6 67.0%
12 Solo: A Star Wars Story BV $343.3 $196.2 57.2% $147.1 42.8%
As you can see, "Solo" is currently #12 on the 2018 worldwide list. |
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Post by simplemoviecommenter on Jun 21, 2018 6:00:43 GMT
I would've taken Lucas' crazyass vision any day over a creatively boring movie like TFA and TLJ. If I need to have my nostalgia quota fulfilled, I'll watch ANH instead.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 21, 2018 6:09:04 GMT
Tran should have been warned how unpopular she was.
How many people saw her in TLJ? How many people hated her character? How many people of that number had access to social media? How many could easily post to her account?
If Ahmed Best was on an instagram service in 1999 imagine the messages he would have got.
She wasn't bullied-just exposed to the reality of social media and what happens when you are unpopular in a mass market popular series.
If only 500 people sent her hate mail, that would be a huge amount.
Lucas needs help in a film. I think without Gary Kurtz and Marcia Lucas around, he had too many bad ideas.
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Post by _ on Jun 21, 2018 6:48:26 GMT
Hi merh, I do not believe we have chatted before, but may I ask you a huge favor? Would you please stop saying "star wars fanboys" and lumping them all together as one monolithic, evil entity? It is rude and inaccurate. As just one example, I have been a STAR WARS fan since the original film came out in 1977. Meaning that literally no one has been a fan longer than I have. I am not racist nor sexist. I have never threatened Kellie Tran, John Boyega, or anyone else. I did not boycott SOLO because of racism, and have never heard of anyone else doing so. So, again, pretty please knock off the group insults, lest you become worse than the very people you are so busy insulting. Thank you. |
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Post by merh on Jun 21, 2018 9:13:22 GMT
Hi merh, I do not believe we have chatted before, but may I ask you a huge favor? Would you please stop saying "star wars fanboys" and lumping them all together as one monolithic, evil entity? It is rude and inaccurate. As just one example, I have been a STAR WARS fan since the original film came out in 1977. Meaning that literally no one has been a fan longer than I have. I am not racist nor sexist. I have never threatened Kellie Tran, John Boyega, or anyone else. I did not boycott SOLO because of racism, and have never heard of anyone else doing so. So, again, pretty please knock off the group insults, lest you become worse than the very people you are so busy insulting. Thank you. I refer to myself as a Thor fangirl all the time. Marvel fangirl. I was 17 when I saw Star Wars in 1977. As a fangirl for decades, I have been in comic shops overhearing comments by the largely male fanboys. It has been amusing at times. Before tickets became impossible to obtain I attended Comiccon international 13 years. I've interacted with a lot of fans. There is a segment of Star Wars fanboys (and fangirls) who are horrible. The only worse are the fangirls of horror shows like Supernatural. The few times I visited that board over on IMDb, it was very cliquish with one or 2 who seemed to be the ringleaders. I also learned to avoid vampire titles even though I have been a horror fan as far back as I can remember & love vampire lore. I remember waiting in the car with my sister talking horror stories & legends while my mom ran into the store (because that wasn't seen as child abuse in the 60s) The split is hard to pin down. Prequel fanboys? I don't know. I really didnt have a problem with JarJar. My child was around 9 when the movie came out & loved him. I saw him as something geared for the kids. I had more of a problem with the shift to a much younger hero. The setting if Luke on the cusp of manhood worked. Anakin was what, half that? My daughter loved Amidala so I was fine, but I didnt find a whole lot that drew me in. The whole midiclorans thing really seemed like a reach. So fanboys is like bitch. I throw it back & forth with my daughter, but I know damned well when someone uses it as an insult. And as the mother of a daughter, mothers of sons has long been a swear for me. I have no problem with mothers in general, but I ran into a small segment who seemed to think their son was something special. Their son was so put upon. I bought my daughter a whiffleball bat & ball which we played with all weekend. Next weekend it was done. Never touched it again because she was informed by the boys in her preschool that only boys could play baseball. When she was 8 or 9 I arrived at the afterschool daycare to find her with bloody knees through her leggings. The worker's excuse was she told my daughter not to play with those boys because they play rough. When is dragging another child behind a bike ok playing? I brought my kid up without the usual gender norms. She liked the bad guy (Scar. Oogie Boogie) so those tended to be in the boys section. I didnt ever tell her she couldnt do things because she was a girl. Her fav toys when she was 2 were dinosaurs & hot wheels. So yeah. I don't have a problem with fanboys/guys in general. Just a certain segment. Respect women as your equal, fine. I loved Rey in TFA. I actually found TLJ a letdown, like the director wanted to destroy everything that was set up in TFA, but who on earth would think to throw a temper tantrum against a different film? Don't support TLJ. Dont buy merchandise. Don't ever watch another film by the director, but where is the sense boycotting the next film? Shouldnt the boycott be on IX |
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Post by merh on Jun 21, 2018 10:07:37 GMT
Gee, wonder where anyone would get that idea? Oh, the people bitching about a female lead? If one had a solid excuse obviously the comment wasnt aimed at you. It was directed at all the people bitching about a black storm trooper & how a girl would not be able to beat Kylo because girls are weaker than boys. Didn't Yoda point out that size, etc didnt matter? Yeah, TFA left more open, that maybe her past explained her abilities like knowing Wookie, but TLJ chucked all those possibilities. I am hoping Abrahms will retrieve it somehow(Kylo lied?). . But it was on the lists of others. Still more strong guys. . ... Strong? Domino was assured of her abilities, but she didnt stand out as strong to me. Maybe because it was Deadpool's team. I wasn't happy with that movie in general. I liked Domino. Negasonic was less annoying/showed a bit more emotion than pissy & Yukio was sweet. I REALLY liked Vanessa in the first film so I think that is what soured me on the second. How is it bullying? So was Lucas bullying the older fans with the prequels? Is WB bullying Superman fans trying to make the DCEU Superman into some dark Batman character? John Lennon was an ass. I still like some of his songs. I dont have to like JJ Abrams's words. What matters is do I like his films? Frankly I hold more anger over what WB has done with DCEU. I WANT good superhero movies. Its a subtle thing. When one sees numerous responses bitching about girls & people of color, it becomes a bit obvious. [/quote] I was headed out the door & could not bring up the world wide chart. I needed to get to work & was getting frustrated. I do know China hasn't really warmed up to the Star Wars franchise. TFA made about half what Ultron made there. $124 mill vs $240 mill. Hell, Ant-man made $105 mill in China On the other hand, TLJ was on top of the 2017 releases. 2017 WORLDWIDE GROSSES 1-Star Wars: The Last Jedi $1,332.5 $620.2 46.5% $712.4 53.5% 2-Beauty and the Beast (2017) $1,263.5 $504.0 39.9% $759.5 60.1% 3-The Fate of the Furious $1,236.0 $226.0 18.3% $1,010.0 81.7% 4-Despicable Me 3. $1,034.8 $264.6 25.6% $770.2 74.4% 5-Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle $962.0 $404.5 42.1% $557.4 57.9% 6-Spider-Man: Homecoming $880.2 $334.2 38.0% $546.0 62.0% 7-Wolf Warrior 2 $870.3 $2.7 0.3% $867.6 99.7% 8-Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 $863.8 $389.8 45.1% $473.9 54.9% 9-Thor: Ragnarok $854.0 $315.1 36.9% $538.9 63.1% 10-Wonder Woman $821.8 $412.6 50.2% $409.3 49.8% |
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Post by alpha128 on Jun 21, 2018 12:40:21 GMT
Gee, wonder where anyone would get that idea (an alt-right group claimed responsibility for lowering the film’s Rotten Tomatoes scores)? Oh, the people bitching about a female lead? If one had a solid excuse obviously the comment wasnt aimed at you. It was directed at all the people bitching about a black storm trooper & how a girl would not be able to beat Kylo because girls are weaker than boys. Maybe an alt-right group did claim responsibility for lowering the film’s Rotten Tomatoes score. That doesn't mean they were actually responsible. As Alex Becker notes in the video below, the media wrote that Kelly Marie Tran was forced off Instagram by "a Facebook group with less than a hundred members and a Twitter account with 41 members." There were almost two-hundred thousand votes that resulted in TLJ's 46% RT Audience score. As Alex Becker also notes below, Lucasfilm and their defenders paint the fan base with a broad brush. The clear implication is that anyone who did not like TLJ or who boycotted Solo, did so because they were racist, sexist, misogynist, etc. I read J.J. Abrams comment as an attack on all detractors of TLJ. Like he was saying loud and clear, "I do not want your money for Episode IX." Well guess what? He's not getting mine! True, but TFA grossed $735.7 million more than TLJ ($2,068.2 vs. $1,332.5). This gives TLJ the record for biggest ever sequel-to-sequel plunge. No doubt pent-up demand for "Star Wars" played a large part in TFA's box office haul. But a significant part of TLJ's sequel-to-sequel plunge was due to a lack of repeat business - because about 50% of viewers hated the movie. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised, since Rian Johnson has stated he wants 50% of viewers to hate his movies: |
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Post by ryboto on Jun 21, 2018 15:09:49 GMT
fangirls coming to the rescue to put us white male pigs in our place. Damn straight.
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Post by merh on Jun 22, 2018 8:11:25 GMT
fangirls coming to the rescue to put us white male pigs in our place. Damn straight. Isn't it that bemused age old feud between the sexes? Take my wife, please? The husband is helpless vs the kids or the kitchen or the laundry, etc? But the sci fi club I attended back when Star Wars came out was at least equally female if not 60/40 female/male ratio. My kid was into manga & anime in the 00s so we did the anime room & panels for the first 5 yrs-2001 was our first Comic-con. The interesting phenomena with manga was unlike American comics which was largely male & pretty much the companies stealing audience from each other, gals were the big buyers. It was accepted wisdom guys bought comics & gals bought make-up, clothes, etc. No sense for DC, Marvel, etc. bothering to appeal to them. Yes, there were some females who maybe read Archies or Wendy, etc as young kids who stayed with the superheroes like myself & my sister, but we were a small segment of the buying audience The female manga audience was fresh blood-new cash so the American companies were trying to figure how to get a piece of it. I attended panels where this was discussed. One panel laid this out-the female audience desirable-& asked for titles to license. Guys kept throwing out shonen titles they wanted to see. I used to post over at Anime News Network & ran into guys who refused to believe females made up any recognizable portion of the audience all the time. They never saw them at the comic shops so they didnt exist, obviously never visiting a Barnes & Noble. (There was a term for the girls sitting in the chairs reading the books-manga cows, but mnay went on to buy some of the volumes they read) I know several of my daughter's friends bled over into the American comic market after their initial immersion into manga. |
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Post by merh on Jun 22, 2018 10:00:01 GMT
Gee, wonder where anyone would get that idea (an alt-right group claimed responsibility for lowering the film’s Rotten Tomatoes scores)? Oh, the people bitching about a female lead? If one had a solid excuse obviously the comment wasnt aimed at you. It was directed at all the people bitching about a black storm trooper & how a girl would not be able to beat Kylo because girls are weaker than boys. Maybe an alt-right group did claim responsibility for lowering the film’s Rotten Tomatoes score. That doesn't mean they were actually responsible. I used IMDb as a resource for years-at least 6 or 8-before actually creating an account to discuss Thor. We had a certain segment of trolls on the Marvel boards-mostly from the Dark Knight boards, but we also would get raided by Walking Dead & Expendables, of all things. We would get regular DC comic fans posting on the Marvel boards who invariably responded when asked why they were creating Batman comic book threads on the Marvel boards that the Dark Knight boards were hell where voice an opinion other than Nolan was god/Batman is the best would draw trash responses so I started checking out The Dark Knight Rises board. I was actually on that board, having attended a preview Thursday night with my daughter's friend, when word started filtering in about a shooting in Colorado. But the interesting trick I'm going for here is the IMDb top 200 films. If you have ever checked it out, you will note it is unusual for many critically acclaimed films not being on top. The story common to those who claimed to know was Batfans (though maybe Nolanites) had voted down all the traditional top movies which is why a movie like Citizen Kane is in the 70s while Shawshank Redemption is #1 & has been for years. Some of the TDKR board regulars bragged of having dozens of sock accounts they had created to manipulate the IMDB ratings in an attempt to get TDK into the top 10 back in 2008 Which is why I dont really bother with the ratings on IMDb. A movie can have 2000 "1" votes before the film even opens. I suspect similar happens on RT. I have created 2 accounts there, but both dont let me log in a month or 2 down the road so I have given up trying to rate movies there. Certain films get downvoted. I have never figured it out. Why do people care so bloody much to downvote a movie? I enjoyed the last Ghostbusters. I saw the nasty crap people said about it on the boards as I wondered what the hell the original was being held up as so untouchable. I saw it & its sequel in theater when they were released. It was Abbott & Costello meet Frankenstein put comedians in a scary setting & let them mug for the camera, not some untouchable icon on a movie. Movies get remade. Hell, A Star is Born is on its 4th incarnation this year. Ben Hur is based on an 1880's novel made into a play & then 5 films & a mini series on tv. As I said, how many sock accounts? I really don't get the wrath. I gave it a 7 on IMDb, probably because my kid really liked it, but I might change it to a 6. I dont do many 1s. Of the 3,451 ratings I've made on IMDb, 165 are 10 & 16 are 1. So what about me? I know as a female I don't figure into the usual comic book fan demographic. Hell, I have been in comic shops & heard what guys say about gals. Shall I be offended? The movie maker/book author/artist, etc. Make their thing. I am sure many hold stupid opinions. Dont we all? But does it matter whether I agree with everything Robert Bloch ever said in an interview on whether I enjoy his stories? I disagree with suicide. Shall I stop liking James Tiptree Jr's stories because she killed her husband & then herself because they both suffered severe health issues the last few decades of their lives? She was notable because she created the male pen name in 1967 & managed to remain unknown until someone finally deduced who she was. It was known to be a pen name, but everyone assumed male. So is sexism a thing? Yeah. Usually one can ignore it, but I've seen more than my share in 58 yrs. I really dont care for Joss Whedon. He has said many dumb things & I take issue with some of his female characters, but I can still thoroughly enjoy both Avengers movies. You want to do that, whatever. Every film is more than its director or stars. How many jobs did Deadpool 2 say it created at the end of the credits? Look at Roseanne getting axed & all the peripherals who lost their jobs for the words of one person. I honestly dont expect the spinoff to survive. I believe a lot of TFA was nostalgia. We lost Han. I deliberately sought out that spoiler so I could brace for it & still cried so much. It ruined the end. We should have had that "yee haw!" cheer when they blew up the weapon, but I was still fighting the tears. I didn't care about Obi-wan in A New Hope that much because he was some crazy hermit we just met. We KNEW Han. We watched him in 4 films. I was so pissed I swore Kylo is irredeemable even though I strongly suspect they will try the Darth Vader save at the end movIe. It's probably why Leia survived-his love for his mother will turn him. But patricide. No. There's no coming back from an unprovoked murder of a parent. But I do question the selection of Johnson to direct. I very much enjoyed John Carter, but they let the directir ruin it. I saw interviews where he talked about the open checkbook they gave him to the point there was no way in hell it could make a profit. The entertainment press loves expensive flops so when the budget rose so high, they were loaded for bear. It had to fail. And I fail to see how Brothers Bloom=Star Wars. It was interesting,but a bit quirky to lead to a space opera directing gig. I see it as similar to WB putting so much faith in Snyder. The Comic-Con crowd I work with largely disliked Man of Steel & his take on Supes. Superman isnt Batman. He smiles. He doesn't need a priest to tell him to do the right thing. Batman lost his parents which darkened his entire perspective. Superman lost his entire planet, but gained a new one he wants to protect. I like Jason Momoa, but have only the vaguest memory of the Aquaman cartoon. It feels like they are borrowing Namor's darkness for this Aquaman. Its the reason Marvel has taken off. They care about the product. Disney is letting them do their thing. The approach to Star Wars sadly seems more the old school Hollywood Studio game of handing it to a director & trusting that vision. Marvel will fire director who strays too far. Howard was the better choice for Star Wars |
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Post by ryboto on Jun 22, 2018 11:22:18 GMT
fangirls coming to the rescue to put us white male pigs in our place. Damn straight. Isn't it that bemused age old feud between the sexes? Take my wife, please? The husband is helpless vs the kids or the kitchen or the laundry, etc? But the sci fi club I attended back when Star Wars came out was at least equally female if not 60/40 female/male ratio. My kid was into manga & anime in the 00s so we did the anime room & panels for the first 5 yrs-2001 was our first Comic-con. The interesting phenomena with manga was unlike American comics which was largely male & pretty much the companies stealing audience from each other, gals were the big buyers. It was accepted wisdom guys bought comics & gals bought make-up, clothes, etc. No sense for DC, Marvel, etc. bothering to appeal to them. Yes, there were some females who maybe read Archies or Wendy, etc as young kids who stayed with the superheroes like myself & my sister, but we were a small segment of the buying audience The female manga audience was fresh blood-new cash so the American companies were trying to figure how to get a piece of it. I attended panels where this was discussed. One panel laid this out-the female audience desirable-& asked for titles to license. Guys kept throwing out shonen titles they wanted to see. I used to post over at Anime News Network & ran into guys who refused to believe females made up any recognizable portion of the audience all the time. They never saw them at the comic shops so they didnt exist, obviously never visiting a Barnes & Noble. (There was a term for the girls sitting in the chairs reading the books-manga cows, but mnay went on to buy some of the volumes they read) I know several of my daughter's friends bled over into the American comic market after their initial immersion into manga. I'm just going to assume you didn't catch the sarcasm. I'm also going to assume you're new and presume us all to be sexist, hate filled males. It can't be that we simply thought the movies have been awful because they are objectively bad...we find it awful because it's diverse and the lead is female...right? |
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Post by merh on Jun 22, 2018 13:20:30 GMT
I would've taken Lucas' crazyass vision any day over a creatively boring movie like TFA and TLJ. If I need to have my nostalgia quota fulfilled, I'll watch ANH instead. Solo feels in that mode more than VII & VIII. |
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