islandmur
Sophomore
All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
@islandmur
Posts: 320
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Post by islandmur on Jun 16, 2018 22:30:59 GMT
You seem to be misunderstanding me, my concerns are not about the legaties of the thing, but about people calling the parents irresponsible or saying they let their children run around.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 16, 2018 23:00:00 GMT
You seem to be misunderstanding me, my concerns are not about the legaties of the thing, but about people calling the parents irresponsible or saying they let their children run around. They are irresponsible to the extent that parents who make mistakes with the raising of their kids are by definition irresponsible. It's not a chronic condition, but rather a point in time. That's what I was specifically addressing btw. Liability is not personal. The insurance company doesn't care if they are good parents or not, only that this one time they screwed up as parents and it cost money to resolve. The kid literally was running around lol. The one mistake is not a condemnation of their parenting although it could be an expensive one.
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islandmur
Sophomore
All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
@islandmur
Posts: 320
Likes: 180
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Post by islandmur on Jun 16, 2018 23:20:47 GMT
You seem to be misunderstanding me, my concerns are not about the legaties of the thing, but about people calling the parents irresponsible or saying they let their children run around. They are irresponsible to the extent that parents who make mistakes with the raising of their kids are by definition irresponsible. It's not a chronic condition, but rather a point in time. That's what I was specifically addressing btw. Liability is not personal. The insurance company doesn't care if they are good parents or not, only that this one time they screwed up as parents and it cost money to resolve. The kid literally was running around lol. The one mistake is not a condemnation of their parenting although it could be an expensive one. Again I'm not talking about legalities, but about people on here and in comments saying the parents are irresponsible (not in a legal sense, but in raise your kids right sense). I don't know these parents, so I don't know if they merit that judgement from me or not. But I am a parent. It is not a mistake to take your eyes of your child. Let me state it another way, if by accident someone's purse had knocked over the statue, no one would be calling them irresponsible. They would be responsible for the cost sure, but no one would say they were being irresponsible because of an accident. But with parents, it seems like you should walk around with a leash on your kids (and that gets you called on kinds of other names) because god forbid your kid should do something that kids do and cause an accident. Someone leaving their kids in a car while they go shopping is irresponsible, someone placing their kids on a wall in a zoo and kid falls in (or not) is irresponsible, leaving a two year old at home to go party is irresponsible, letting your kids run around screaming in a restaurant is irresponsible.... taking your eyes of your kid for 5 minutes isn't. They may be liable for the statue's damage because their kid did cause it I don't dispute that, though I do say that responsibility should be shared with the venue, since they too had a stake in protecting said artwork. But beyond all that I'm specifically adressing the public labelling these parents as lousy parents because of one incident. Hope that clears it up because I can't explain it any better!
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Post by deembastille on Jun 17, 2018 3:58:57 GMT
parents are no believe they are responsible for their kids actions. however, they send their kid off to school to a teacher who has to also mind 30 other students, something happens to their particular child [no matter who is at fault if anyone] and they want the teacher's head.
but the lawsuit is poorly written... could be considered neglect? SHOULD and WILL be considered neglect. failure to control your child or keep tabs of them, IS neglect. neglect is failure. failure is neglect.
deal with it child farter outers.
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Post by deembastille on Jun 17, 2018 4:03:39 GMT
You seem to be misunderstanding me, my concerns are not about the legaties of the thing, but about people calling the parents irresponsible or saying they let their children run around. but they are irresponsible. they can't keep tabs on their one child. now watch these parents expect their childs teacher to keep tabs on not only their child but 30 others. these are the parents who want the teacher's heads when something happens to their child [especially when the child was not following directions]. this is what happens when you have a child. this is what happens when you don't keep tabs on your child. this is what happens when you don't hold your child's hand when at some sort of art exhibit. this is what happens when you don't TELL YOUR CHILD HOW TO BEHAVE WHEN AT THE ART EXHIBIT. this is what happens when you don't say: WE LOOK WITH OUR EYES, NOT WITH OUR HANDS!
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Jun 17, 2018 4:07:21 GMT
parents are no believe they are responsible for their kids actions. however, they send their kid off to school to a teacher who has to also mind 30 other students, something happens to their particular child [no matter who is at fault if anyone] and they want the teacher's head. but the lawsuit is poorly written... could be considered neglect? SHOULD and WILL be considered neglect. failure to control your child or keep tabs of them, IS neglect. neglect is failure. failure is neglect. deal with it child farter outers. You can be damn sure that if some other random kid destroyed the parents 130,000 dollar [ blank ] they would be oh-so-pissed about it.
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Post by deembastille on Jun 17, 2018 4:07:29 GMT
They are irresponsible to the extent that parents who make mistakes with the raising of their kids are by definition irresponsible. It's not a chronic condition, but rather a point in time. That's what I was specifically addressing btw. Liability is not personal. The insurance company doesn't care if they are good parents or not, only that this one time they screwed up as parents and it cost money to resolve. The kid literally was running around lol. The one mistake is not a condemnation of their parenting although it could be an expensive one. Again I'm not talking about legalities, but about people on here and in comments saying the parents are irresponsible (not in a legal sense, but in raise your kids right sense). I don't know these parents, so I don't know if they merit that judgement from me or not. But I am a parent. It is not a mistake to take your eyes of your child. Let me state it another way, if by accident someone's purse had knocked over the statue, no one would be calling them irresponsible. They would be responsible for the cost sure, but no one would say they were being irresponsible because of an accident. But with parents, it seems like you should walk around with a leash on your kids (and that gets you called on kinds of other names) because god forbid your kid should do something that kids do and cause an accident. Someone leaving their kids in a car while they go shopping is irresponsible, someone placing their kids on a wall in a zoo and kid falls in (or not) is irresponsible, leaving a two year old at home to go party is irresponsible, letting your kids run around screaming in a restaurant is irresponsible.... taking your eyes of your kid for 5 minutes isn't. They may be liable for the statue's damage because their kid did cause it I don't dispute that, though I do say that responsibility should be shared with the venue, since they too had a stake in protecting said artwork. But beyond all that I'm specifically adressing the public labelling these parents as lousy parents because of one incident. Hope that clears it up because I can't explain it any better! OMG! DID YOU JUST STATE THAT YOU ARE ALLOWED TO TAKE YOUR EYES OFF YOUR KID FOR FIVE WHOLE MINUTES? AND NOT BE LABELED IRRESPONSIBLE? a kid can drown in 5 seconds. we're not upset that this happened. we're upset that the parents don't think they should be held monetarily responsible for this.
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Post by deembastille on Jun 17, 2018 4:10:43 GMT
parents are no believe they are responsible for their kids actions. however, they send their kid off to school to a teacher who has to also mind 30 other students, something happens to their particular child [no matter who is at fault if anyone] and they want the teacher's head. but the lawsuit is poorly written... could be considered neglect? SHOULD and WILL be considered neglect. failure to control your child or keep tabs of them, IS neglect. neglect is failure. failure is neglect. deal with it child farter outers. You can be damn sure that if some other random kid destroyed the parents 130,000 dollar [ blank ] they would be oh-so-pissed about it. our puppy once chewed up a twenty dollar bill to shreds. our father was pissed but at the end he realized he left it where she could get it. he calmed down and got out the tape. then took it to the bank to exchange it. surprisingly he was able to. this was back when 20 dollars bought you more than a full tank of gas.
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Post by Aj_June on Jun 17, 2018 7:30:12 GMT
They are irresponsible to the extent that parents who make mistakes with the raising of their kids are by definition irresponsible. It's not a chronic condition, but rather a point in time. That's what I was specifically addressing btw. Liability is not personal. The insurance company doesn't care if they are good parents or not, only that this one time they screwed up as parents and it cost money to resolve. The kid literally was running around lol. The one mistake is not a condemnation of their parenting although it could be an expensive one. But I am a parent. It is not a mistake to take your eyes of your child. Agree with you, Mur. A parent is not supposed to be some strict headmistress of a school who has the child tethered to him or her 24 hours. While it's good to teach manners to children I wouldn't blame a parent for taking eyes off the kid for a bit. It happens all the time with millions of parents around the world who are normal people. The parents who are too strict and wouldn't allow their kids any freedom are exception. That an unfortunate accident happened neither makes the parent a bad parent nor does it mean the parent has to be charged insane fines.
www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2017/06/happen-accidentally-knocked-ming-vase-museum/
The records indicate that most of the times people who do damage stuffs accidentally or or are involved in some degree of negligence are not charged with insane fines.
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Post by Aj_June on Jun 17, 2018 7:38:19 GMT
This one's more detailed. It seems only when the intent of person committing the damage is very malignant do the museums try to recover full amount.
Not in cases such as above. Thankfully there is more sense in real world than it would appear on message boards.
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Post by deembastille on Jun 17, 2018 14:25:12 GMT
Hmm.. The Statue doesn't seem to have been very secure, it fell over rather quickly even if "pulled" by a 5 year old. Also the parents said they were at a wedding (so they didn't go to a museum with their kid) why is this museum allowing a wedding guests to walk through it? is this a common thing? Also why on earth are there 3 women present, one of whom is facing the child and not one of them intervenes when he plays with the statue?
cause its not their kid. and i am sure those three have 'been there and done that' in terms of intervening with a poorly behaved, old enough to know better child and have it not turn out well. a teacher at my school was killed in her bathtub for intervening when one of her students was misbehaving at a store. she redirected him and his father and the fathers brother followed her home and murdered her in her bathtub. been. there. done. that. all because people get butthurt when their parenting skills suck.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jun 17, 2018 14:26:26 GMT
Here's an adaptation of a post I just wrote in another thread:
It's important to periodically stand back and try to assess what you're doing from a "bigger picture" perspective, from a perspective of recontextualizing where you're at at the moment, etc.
For example, if you're writing an argumentive paper or a proof or something like that and you reach one of those points where it's basically, "Therefore, I'm not writing this paper," then you need to stop for a minute and say, "Hold on--obviously something went wrong here. There was some serious flaw with the process I used." And you might need to trash the whole process and try it a different way.
Billing a family $132,000 for a sculpture that you placed in a way that a five-year-old could relatively easily accidentally knock it over is one of those moments.
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Post by Vegas on Jun 17, 2018 14:56:20 GMT
Yet another example of a situation where I see both sides as being kinda wrong:
1) Keep a better eye on your kid... and don't be surprised that you are being held accountable for his actions.
2) Understand that statues on open pedestals in walkways can/will be knocked over.
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islandmur
Sophomore
All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
@islandmur
Posts: 320
Likes: 180
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Post by islandmur on Jun 17, 2018 14:58:57 GMT
Hmm.. The Statue doesn't seem to have been very secure, it fell over rather quickly even if "pulled" by a 5 year old. Also the parents said they were at a wedding (so they didn't go to a museum with their kid) why is this museum allowing a wedding guests to walk through it? is this a common thing? Also why on earth are there 3 women present, one of whom is facing the child and not one of them intervenes when he plays with the statue?
cause its not their kid. and i am sure those three have 'been there and done that' in terms of intervening with a poorly behaved, old enough to know better child and have it not turn out well. a teacher at my school was killed in her bathtub for intervening when one of her students was misbehaving at a store. she redirected him and his father and the fathers brother followed her home and murdered her in her bathtub. been. there. done. that. all because people get butthurt when their parenting skills suck. Pish Tosh. Kid wasn't poorly behaved, he saw something interesting and touched it, he is 5 years old. He was behaving as 5 years old do. Curious, inquisitive. As to the women, yes it's not their kid nor maybe their problem, I was just curious as to why they didn't do something. We live in a world now where helping is a crime. We live in a world where when children act like children it's a 'syndrome' we want little adults.
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Post by deembastille on Jun 17, 2018 15:25:11 GMT
cause its not their kid. and i am sure those three have 'been there and done that' in terms of intervening with a poorly behaved, old enough to know better child and have it not turn out well. a teacher at my school was killed in her bathtub for intervening when one of her students was misbehaving at a store. she redirected him and his father and the fathers brother followed her home and murdered her in her bathtub.been. there. done. that. all because people get butthurt when their parenting skills suck. Pish Tosh. Kid wasn't poorly behaved, he saw something interesting and touched it, he is 5 years old. He was behaving as 5 years old do. Curious, inquisitive. As to the women, yes it's not their kid nor maybe their problem, I was just curious as to why they didn't do something. We live in a world now where helping is a crime. We live in a world where when children act like children it's a 'syndrome' we want little adults. and i told you why. parents now get butthurt whenever anyone intervenes and 'saves their child. i was spit at when i saw a baby in a stroller chewing on something white with what looked like black lettering and i pulled it from her mouth. it was a stickum label! at first glance i thought it was a marshmallow but then i saw the black lettering. i was spit at for preventing a choking death! and the mother's friends [yeah she was there with 3 other adults] ALL TOOK HER SIDE! i don't know were you live but in NYC we have this asinine 'law' of see something say something. sorry. that's bullshit. i see something, i say something i get shot in the back by the shithead who i was 'tattling on'. best thing to do is to see something, get the hell out of dodge. the informants get no help via the MTA or police when we say something. i don't want a child to act like a little adult, but a five year old should know we look with our eyes not with our hands. and like it or not people who take it upon themselves to be responsible for another person or an animal should be held responsible. Stephen king was hit by a van some years ago when the vans driver was distracted by his wildly barking dog. he said he was distracted by his barking dog. he was still responsible for hitting a pedestrian. its unfortunate but this is the reality of the world.
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Post by deembastille on Jun 17, 2018 15:52:46 GMT
I think they should pay, the world is not a giant playground where parents can let their kids run free. A bit of background on Overland Park, Kansas... I grew up there, smack in the middle of Johnson County, Kansas, one of the wealthier counties in the nation. I moved out of there, to neighboring Missouri, as soon as I could. "Johnson County brats" is a frequently used description for children in that area. They are raised to think the world is their oyster, they have a strong sense of entitlement. I was raised in an older area, on the land where my father grew up during the Depression, so I was 'pre' brat period. My grandparents were subsistence farmers.
But it is in general a very wealthy area and kids have no sense of what it takes to make a living. Most have inherited money. Most have no sense of responsibility, and no respect for the value of things. This kid is only 5, so his parents should have been on the watch and his parents should be held responsible. MAYBE the kid will learn something. HAHA. it doesn't stop at affluent areas! my schools neighborhood is home to very entitled assholes. they spend their lives smoking god knows what, drinking booze, living in fuzzy pajamas, picking their kids up late, not working, farting out yet more babies they can't afford to feed or know how to take care of. but they think you diss them... FORGET IT! OMG THEY WANT YOUR HEAD!
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islandmur
Sophomore
All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
@islandmur
Posts: 320
Likes: 180
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Post by islandmur on Jun 17, 2018 16:04:43 GMT
i don't know were you live but in NYC we have this asinine 'law' of see something say something. sorry. that's bullshit. i see something, i say something i get shot in the back by the shithead who i was 'tattling on'. best thing to do is to see something, get the hell out of dodge. the informants get no help via the MTA or police when we say something. i don't want a child to act like a little adult, but a five year old should know we look with our eyes not with our hands. and like it or not people who take it upon themselves to be responsible for another person or an animal should be held responsible. Stephen king was hit by a van some years ago when the vans driver was distracted by his wildly barking dog. he said he was distracted by his barking dog. he was still responsible for hitting a pedestrian. its unfortunate but this is the reality of the world. I live in Haiti. Being held responsible and being called irresponsible are two different things. Which is what I'm pointing out. Yes a child knows we look with our eyes not our hands, however a child will touch things because not all things are for looking at. Since this particular child was there for a wedding and NOT for a museum tour he may not have been aware he was in a "look don't touch" situation. Even if he had been aware, he is 5, at 5 curiousity will replace caution, heck as adults we still do things we know we shouldn't. As for the consequences of helping a child and recieving grief over it that's up to each individual's conscience I would guess. Now I would call parents who get offended because you tried to help their kids avoid something dangerous irresponsible and idiots.
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Post by maya55555 on Jun 17, 2018 18:48:58 GMT
Island Mur
Yeah, well I did just that and the mother started screaming at me for Yelling (I did not) at her child. All I told the child was do not do that and settle down. I called the manager and things became worse.
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Post by deembastille on Jun 17, 2018 19:14:11 GMT
Island Mur
Yeah, well I did just that and the mother started screaming at me for Yelling (I did not) at her child. All I told the child was do not do that and settle down. I called the manager and things became worse. Maya, I am so sorry that happened to you. It has happened to me a few times. Been there done that. The butthurtness of the parent public is completely out of hand.
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Post by Marv on Jun 17, 2018 22:02:51 GMT
The gist I’m getting is kids are cool but adults can be real douches.
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