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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 11, 2018 2:42:30 GMT
Melisandre believed everything she said and Stannis was not power hungry, only blindly dutiful. They are a depiction of belief. The point of everything in this story is the thing. What it leads to is a side effect. This is a series of large books and characters are their own justification, not a means to an end. This is not a journey from A to B.I suppose so. I'm just partial to character arcs with big satisfying payoffs. And I'm sure there'll be plenty of those to come. There already have been a few. As for Stannis, I just think it's a bit of a shame he died so early in the series. I would've liked to have seen a humbled and defeated Stannis join the eventual fight with the White Walkers, or perhaps lose all of his convictions and fall to pieces knowing his daughter died for nothing. Basically, I think they could've delved deeper into the character instead of just having him die. I wish Jon Snow had stayed dead. Ned's and Robb's deaths were not satisfying payoffs either. It made the whole thing real. Joffrey didn't fall, didn't get to contemplate failure, he just choke for a minute like Caligula was slaughtered in a corridor.
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 11, 2018 2:52:22 GMT
I suppose so. I'm just partial to character arcs with big satisfying payoffs. And I'm sure there'll be plenty of those to come. There already have been a few. As for Stannis, I just think it's a bit of a shame he died so early in the series. I would've liked to have seen a humbled and defeated Stannis join the eventual fight with the White Walkers, or perhaps lose all of his convictions and fall to pieces knowing his daughter died for nothing. Basically, I think they could've delved deeper into the character instead of just having him die. I wish Jon Snow had stayed dead. Ned's and Robb's deaths were not satisfying payoffs either. It made the whole thing real. Joffrey didn't fall, didn't get to contemplate failure, he just choke for a minute like Caligula was slaughtered in a corridor. Excellent points. I did sort of feel the same about Ned and Robb as I do about Stannis... But I appreciate all three endings as well because a show like this does need some shocking/devastating moments like these. Joffrey is a bit different though because he was always more of an antagonist who was there to be a foil for other characters and to serve the larger plot. His death was meant to propel the story forward and complicate things for Sansa and Tyrion.
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 11, 2018 2:54:44 GMT
As for Jon, I feel like they should've just never killed him. His temporary death didn't really do all that much to advance the plot. It was just sort of a contrived cliffhanger.
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Post by _ on Aug 11, 2018 2:59:10 GMT
As for Jon, I feel like they should've just never killed him. His temporary death didn't really do all that much to advance the plot. It was just sort of a contrived cliffhanger. Did you watch Battlestar Galactica?
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 11, 2018 4:05:16 GMT
As for Jon, I feel like they should've just never killed him. His temporary death didn't really do all that much to advance the plot. It was just sort of a contrived cliffhanger. That's right. This is one of the many reasons I think the author has remained an immature prankster. Jon's death happens near the end of the last book of the series to date and he could have just been seriously wounded instead. A lot of praise has been given to this writing style for the sense of real stakes it gives and this is justified. Anyone can fail at any time and there is little time spent with characters considering their actions. The authors do not force their own message onto their audience, which in turn enhances the quality of the work by leaving interpretation where it belongs. The best works or art or literature are those which the audience can spend time thinking about rather than having to accept a pre-digested explanation. Still, we'd be fools not to see that this is just an excuse to shock. What I have learned, or rather seen confirmed when analysing this story is that its true worth is in my own ability to draw conclusions out of it. It is very much like observing history, which is not the work of an author with an intent, and drawing lessons from it.
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 11, 2018 4:32:26 GMT
As for Jon, I feel like they should've just never killed him. His temporary death didn't really do all that much to advance the plot. It was just sort of a contrived cliffhanger. Did you watch Battlestar Galactica? I didn't. Did they do something similar?
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 13, 2018 1:45:29 GMT
The Hound lives!
I knew it!!!!!!!!%
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Post by _ on Aug 13, 2018 3:50:19 GMT
The Hound lives! I knew it!!!!!!!!% (kC1QRBNQzRLR7kg~~_35.JPG?set_id=89040003C1)
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 13, 2018 6:39:47 GMT
The Hound lives! I knew it!!!!!!!!% (kC1QRBNQzRLR7kg~~_35.JPG?set_id=89040003C1) No word yet on whether the fox has survived...
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 13, 2018 6:41:41 GMT
Just finished The Battle of the Bastards... Intense! I'm not usually big on battle scenes but that one had some epic moments and some amazing cinematography! And Ramses was devoured by dogs. Poor bastard- I mean, Bolton 
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 13, 2018 7:00:37 GMT
Just finished The Battle of the Bastards... Intense! I'm not usually big on battle scenes but that one had some epic moments and some amazing cinematography! And Ramses was devoured by dogs. Poor bastard- I mean, Bolton  This episode was a terrible waste of time. No news on my queen at all, after the terrible trick her own son pulled on her. I've never been so worried in my life… Twitted this a few days before the finale:
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 13, 2018 16:47:28 GMT
Just finished The Battle of the Bastards... Intense! I'm not usually big on battle scenes but that one had some epic moments and some amazing cinematography! And Ramses was devoured by dogs. Poor bastard- I mean, Bolton  This episode was a terrible waste of time. No news on my queen at all, after the terrible trick her own son pulled on her. I've never been so worried in my life… Twitted this a few days before the finale:
Haha. Nice! I do hope they explain what the king is thinking. It's been made clear that Margery is just wearing the mask of a zealot. But the king... I think he's just a naive idiot. SAVE CERSCEI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&!!!!!
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 13, 2018 17:15:50 GMT
I do hope they explain what the king is thinking. It's been made clear that Margery is just wearing the mask of a zealot. But the king... I think he's just a naive idiot. If you pay attention to the scenes in the throne room in Ep. 6 and 8, you'll notice that Kevan and Pycelle are always near Tommen. There was another scene in which Cersei found him talking to Pycelle alone and Cersei herself asked Kevan if he had given up on his son, Lancel. Whatever the king is thinking, it seems he is not thinking it alone. Up to Ep. 6, it was actually well played. Margaery was free, the High Sparrow happy, the people of the city were cheering him instead of calling him a bastard and he even took the whole thing as an excuse to free Jaime from his oath as a Kingsguard and put him in command of the Lannister army. At this point, he had much better cards than ever before. Banning trial by combat, on the other hand, completely changes Cersei's situation. He'd better have a good plan because there is no certainty that any agreements he might have with the High Sparrow can be trusted.
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 13, 2018 18:32:34 GMT
I do hope they explain what the king is thinking. It's been made clear that Margery is just wearing the mask of a zealot. But the king... I think he's just a naive idiot. If you pay attention to the scenes in the throne room in Ep. 6 and 8, you'll notice that Kevan and Pycelle are always near Tommen. There was another scene in which Cersei found him talking to Pycelle alone and Cersei herself asked Kevan if he had given up on his son, Lancel. Whatever the king is thinking, it seems he is not thinking it alone. Up to Ep. 6, it was actually well played. Margaery was free, the High Sparrow happy, the people of the city were cheering him instead of calling him a bastard and he even took the whole thing as an excuse to free Jaime from his oath as a Kingsguard and put him in command of the Lannister army. At this point, he had much better cards than ever before. Banning trial by combat, on the other hand, completely changes Cersei's situation. He'd better have a good plan because there is no certainty that any agreements he might have with the High Sparrow can be trusted. I did assume he was conspiring with some of the members of the small council, but it's still unclear whether or not that is a different game than the one Margery is playing. She seems to have her own angle on things, but then again, the obvious answer is that Margery and the small council want Cercsei convicted and gone... But how did they get the king to go along with this? The writers were almost trying to get us to believe that the High Sparrow was the one to change the king's mind. Misdirection, maybe? In any case, the king is pathetically naive. Of course, all of this will likely be answered in the finale... Which I will watch tonight.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 14, 2018 0:40:59 GMT
If you pay attention to the scenes in the throne room in Ep. 6 and 8, you'll notice that Kevan and Pycelle are always near Tommen. There was another scene in which Cersei found him talking to Pycelle alone and Cersei herself asked Kevan if he had given up on his son, Lancel. Whatever the king is thinking, it seems he is not thinking it alone. Up to Ep. 6, it was actually well played. Margaery was free, the High Sparrow happy, the people of the city were cheering him instead of calling him a bastard and he even took the whole thing as an excuse to free Jaime from his oath as a Kingsguard and put him in command of the Lannister army. At this point, he had much better cards than ever before. Banning trial by combat, on the other hand, completely changes Cersei's situation. He'd better have a good plan because there is no certainty that any agreements he might have with the High Sparrow can be trusted. I did assume he was conspiring with some of the members of the small council, but it's still unclear whether or not that is a different game than the one Margery is playing. She seems to have her own angle on things, but then again, the obvious answer is that Margery and the small council want Cercsei convicted and gone... But how did they get the king to go along with this? The writers were almost trying to get us to believe that the High Sparrow was the one to change the king's mind. Misdirection, maybe? In any case, the king is pathetically naive. Of course, all of this will likely be answered in the finale... Which I will watch tonight. All this has been left unsaid so far, implied only. This is not new. Remember Cersei's looks at others in the throne room in S1E08, which told you she was directing a rehearsed piece. No one ever showed or told that Joffrey and Sansa were acting from her script but the directing of the scene made it visible. Here, keep watching Cersei: There was no connection between Margaery and the others, so she is acting on her own. We saw her talk in circles around Tommen. They are not "working" together and she likely makes her own arrangements. Her other scenes were with the High Sparrow, with the exception of that one in which she tells her grandmother to go to safety under that septa's watch and one in which she speaks to her brother in his cell. So there is a team Tommen, Kevan, Pycelle on one side and a Margaery plot on the other. How much Tommen is playing the High Sparrow or falling under his spell is left open. Do they want Cersei gone? I'm not sure. Margaery wants to free her brother and herself. Kevan wants his son back from the fanatics, I suppose. Pycelle advises duplicity in order to avoid more trouble and it seems Cersei isn't anyone's first priority in this game but no one appears to value her very much at this point. Does Tommen have a plan to save his mother? The High Sparrow made no promises. He wanted to see her for some unexplained purpose and she had Ser Gregor kill one of his men. The lioness is trapped in her cage.
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 14, 2018 1:26:58 GMT
Well, just saw the finale. Hell of an episode.
Cersei had her revenge and a good portion of the cast is gone again!
I'm still a bit unclear on some things though: What exactly was the king's motivation for canceling trail by combat and embracing the High Sparrow? I still don't see what his goal was there.
Also, it seems that Cersei was not at all shocked by her son's suicide. I know she didn't plan for him to do that- she kept him from attending the ceremony after all- But did she anticipate it on some level? She acted very quickly to assume the throne.
Also... Jon Snow is inbred! Will he ever find out? You know nothing, Jon Snow!
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 14, 2018 2:12:00 GMT
Tommen's motivation will forever remain unexplained. There were no hints to anything else than what he publicly said. We have to believe he was sincere after all and suspect the High Sparrow promised him an outcome he could judge acceptable. Like Joffrey, he always lacked a father and found one in the High Sparrow. He also had a predisposition to piety. Asked by Tywin what made a good king in S4E03, his first answer had been "holiness". Avoidance of conflict appears to have been a key character trait of his, likely in reaction to his mother's and brother's personality.
Cersei is growing desensitised to the madness around her. She's been beaten down from the start of the series, you would expect that to happen. She's been expecting the worst all along too. That "prophecy" she told Jaime about after he brought back Myrcella has been on her mind since the beginning of S5: "No, I knew this would happen. The witch told me years ago. She promised me three children and she promised me they'd die. And gold their shrouds. Everything she said came true. You couldn't have stopped it."
Yes, Jon Snow is some more stupid dragon spawn. No wonder he's even worse than the other Starks…
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 14, 2018 4:05:42 GMT
Just thought I'd leave this here as a tribute to the Tyrells.
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Post by _ on Aug 14, 2018 4:30:55 GMT
Also... Jon Snow is inbred! Will he ever find out? You know nothing, Jon Snow!NOTHING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!5
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Post by _ on Aug 14, 2018 4:58:34 GMT
Did you watch Battlestar Galactica? I didn't. Did they do something similar? YES! ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME THING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!3
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