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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 10, 2018 17:34:42 GMT
And Brienne can make dogs vanish. I think she's a witch too… Haha. I was actually wondering the whole scene: where are the hounds? Come to think of it, where are the deserters from Stannis' army? Nearly half of it. Are they going to hide from Big Brienne too, together with the hounds? |
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 10, 2018 19:03:30 GMT
Is it ever explained why Witchy Woman told him all of those things? Was she lying? Did she really believe them? What was the point of it all?
This is why I begun to assume that Stannis's subplot was just an elaborate way to set her up for the later seasons, because if she doesn't play a larger role now then I guess I don't see the point of her in the first place. Something similar happened with the Tyrells. They were supporting characters in the subplot with Remly, then were propelled into a larger role when Stannis killed Remly. That justified that whole subplot's existence. Remly ultimately wasn't important at all, but Margery and her brother were. Perhaps that happens with Davos and the Scarlet Witch?
Stannis' arc was a thematically rich one, the descent of a power hungry man into darkness. It is fitting that his quest ended in early defeat. I just expected either a grander finale for him or a new story arc for him after his defeat.
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 10, 2018 20:46:52 GMT
Jon Snow lives!!!!!!!!&  ...But does he still "know nothing"? |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 11, 2018 0:14:20 GMT
Stannis probably no longer has a head so it would be problematic. He was "terminated" a little fast but then, isn't that how it really is? People don't die after finishing their thing, especially not in war. Their trajectory is cut short, abruptly. They get up intending to go to bed in the evening after a good day's work but this time they don't. True. But in a story I expect a more satisfying end to such a lengthy subplot. I assumed he would lose at some point, and I always thought Brianne would probably kill him (because they kept reminding us of her desire for vengeance) but to just have him fail and die after a battle we didn't even actually see felt anti climactic. I'm guessing his storyline was really just an elaborate way to set up the Red Woman, and her role will ultimately be far more important than Stannis. I would have simply settled for a "what have I done?!" moment after he failed. Maybe some remorse/regret about his family. But we didn't even get that. Stannis is still not dead in the books though it seems likely that he will die in the books too. |
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 11, 2018 0:28:51 GMT
True. But in a story I expect a more satisfying end to such a lengthy subplot. I assumed he would lose at some point, and I always thought Brianne would probably kill him (because they kept reminding us of her desire for vengeance) but to just have him fail and die after a battle we didn't even actually see felt anti climactic. I'm guessing his storyline was really just an elaborate way to set up the Red Woman, and her role will ultimately be far more important than Stannis. I would have simply settled for a "what have I done?!" moment after he failed. Maybe some remorse/regret about his family. But we didn't even get that. Stannis is still not dead in the books though it seems likely that he will die in the books too. Really? Interesting. I've wondered how closely the show follows the books... I'll have to get around to reading them at some point. |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 11, 2018 0:38:26 GMT
Stannis is still not dead in the books though it seems likely that he will die in the books too. Really? Interesting. I've wondered how closely the show follows the books... I'll have to get around to reading them at some point. They distorted his character a bit for creating sensationalising effect. He didn't burn his daughter in the books. While he may be greedy I think he is more complex character. He is driven by what he believes is his duty. he believes he is the true protector of the realm.
In the books GRRM describes him as among the greatest Military Commander of Westeros along with Tywin Lannister and Randyll Tarly. He was central to Robert succeeding in the revolt and also in silencing the revolt of Iron Island Men against the realm. That was not depicted in the books or in the show.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 11, 2018 2:04:41 GMT
Is it ever explained why Witchy Woman told him all of those things? Was she lying? Did she really believe them? What was the point of it all? This is why I begun to assume that Stannis's subplot was just an elaborate way to set her up for the later seasons, because if she doesn't play a larger role now then I guess I don't see the point of her in the first place. Something similar happened with the Tyrells. They were supporting characters in the subplot with Remly, then were propelled into a larger role when Stannis killed Remly. That justified that whole subplot's existence. Remly ultimately wasn't important at all, but Margery and her brother were. Perhaps that happens with Davos and the Scarlet Witch? Stannis' arc was a thematically rich one, the descent of a power hungry man into darkness. It is fitting that his quest ended in early defeat. I just expected either a grander finale for him or a new story arc for him after his defeat. Melisandre believed everything she said and Stannis was not power hungry, only blindly dutiful. They are a depiction of belief. The point of everything in this story is the thing. What it leads to is a side effect. This is a series of large books and characters are their own justification, not a means to an end. This is not a journey from A to B. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 11, 2018 2:08:36 GMT
Stannis is still not dead in the books though it seems likely that he will die in the books too. Really? Interesting. I've wondered how closely the show follows the books... I'll have to get around to reading them at some point. The show introduces major differences to the books starting with Season 5. It has become quite a different story. |
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 11, 2018 2:13:47 GMT
What was the fan reaction to Jon's resurrection?
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 11, 2018 2:19:48 GMT
Is it ever explained why Witchy Woman told him all of those things? Was she lying? Did she really believe them? What was the point of it all? This is why I begun to assume that Stannis's subplot was just an elaborate way to set her up for the later seasons, because if she doesn't play a larger role now then I guess I don't see the point of her in the first place. Something similar happened with the Tyrells. They were supporting characters in the subplot with Remly, then were propelled into a larger role when Stannis killed Remly. That justified that whole subplot's existence. Remly ultimately wasn't important at all, but Margery and her brother were. Perhaps that happens with Davos and the Scarlet Witch? Stannis' arc was a thematically rich one, the descent of a power hungry man into darkness. It is fitting that his quest ended in early defeat. I just expected either a grander finale for him or a new story arc for him after his defeat. Melisandre believed everything she said and Stannis was not power hungry, only blindly dutiful. They are a depiction of belief. The point of everything in this story is the thing. What it leads to is a side effect. This is a series of large books and characters are their own justification, not a means to an end. This is not a journey from A to B.I suppose so. I'm just partial to character arcs with big satisfying payoffs. And I'm sure there'll be plenty of those to come. There already have been a few. As for Stannis, I just think it's a bit of a shame he died so early in the series. I would've liked to have seen a humbled and defeated Stannis join the eventual fight with the White Walkers, or perhaps lose all of his convictions and fall to pieces knowing his daughter died for nothing. Basically, I think they could've delved deeper into the character instead of just having him die. |
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Post by _ on Aug 11, 2018 2:20:25 GMT
What was the fan reaction to Jon's resurrection? I can tell you what my reaction was: "What's the big deal, that other guy came back SIX times!" |
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 11, 2018 2:21:27 GMT
What was the fan reaction to Jon's resurrection? I can tell you what my reaction was: "What's the big deal, that other guy came back SIX times!"  |
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Post by _ on Aug 11, 2018 2:22:09 GMT
Melisandre believed everything she said and Stannis was not power hungry, only blindly dutiful. They are a depiction of belief. The point of everything in this story is the thing. What it leads to is a side effect. This is a series of large books and characters are their own justification, not a means to an end. This is not a journey from A to B.I suppose so. I'm just partial to character arcs with big satisfying payoffs. And I'm sure there'll be plenty of those to come. There already have been a few. As for Stannis, I just think it's a bit of a shame he died so early in the series. I would've liked to have seen a humbled and defeated Stannis join the eventual fight with the White Walkers, or perhaps lose all of his convictions and fall to pieces knowing his daughter died for nothing. Basically, I think they could've delved deeper into the character instead of just having him die. There is some suspicion, among some fans, that he is not really dead. As stated earlier the books never definitively killed him, either. |
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 11, 2018 2:23:35 GMT
I suppose so. I'm just partial to character arcs with big satisfying payoffs. And I'm sure there'll be plenty of those to come. There already have been a few. As for Stannis, I just think it's a bit of a shame he died so early in the series. I would've liked to have seen a humbled and defeated Stannis join the eventual fight with the White Walkers, or perhaps lose all of his convictions and fall to pieces knowing his daughter died for nothing. Basically, I think they could've delved deeper into the character instead of just having him die. There is some suspicion, among some fans, that he is not really dead. As stated earlier the books never definitively killed him, either. Interesting... It is always suspicious when a show tells you a character is dead without actually showing it. |
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Post by _ on Aug 11, 2018 2:25:10 GMT
There is some suspicion, among some fans, that he is not really dead. As stated earlier the books never definitively killed him, either. Interesting... It is always suspicious when a show tells you a character is dead without actually showing it. Especially a show that seems to enjoy showing it, graphically. |
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 11, 2018 2:27:15 GMT
Interesting... It is always suspicious when a show tells you a character is dead without actually showing it. Especially a show that seems to enjoy showing it, graphically. Very true. That's exactly why it caught me off guard when they cut away. |
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Post by _ on Aug 11, 2018 2:29:52 GMT
Especially a show that seems to enjoy showing it, graphically. Very true. That's exactly why it caught me off guard when they cut away. If you recall, they did something similar with the Hound. |
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Aug 11, 2018 2:34:29 GMT
Very true. That's exactly why it caught me off guard when they cut away. If you recall, they did something similar with the Hound. I do! And I actually do think there's a good chance he comes back. We never really learned the full extent of his injuries. It's possible he survived them. |
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Post by _ on Aug 11, 2018 2:36:47 GMT
If you recall, they did something similar with the Hound. I do! And I actually do think there's a good chance he comes back. We never really learned the full extent of his injuries. It's possible he survived them. Agreed. Unless you see a head on a stick or something, there is always a chance. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 11, 2018 2:36:53 GMT
What was the fan reaction to Jon's resurrection? Absolute cringe… |
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