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Post by mangekyoalleluia on Jun 20, 2018 21:49:10 GMT
With his goal today, he's now the highest scoring European international player in history with 85 goals.
Along with 4 champions league titles in the last 5 years and a record 3 in a row, with or without a World cup trophy, is Ronnie now the greatest player of all time?
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Post by Carl LaFong on Jun 20, 2018 21:55:28 GMT
Not for me, Clive.
It's still Maradona.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Jun 20, 2018 21:55:35 GMT
I have him now ahead of Messi & Maradona. For me, he needs a WC title to supplant Pele.
With that, he is the greatest European footballer of all time, which is a substantial achievement.
I prefer Messi, alas it is what it is. Messi should've won several Copa America titles with Argentina, never mind FIFA WC's.
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Post by Excellent Bulletproof Vest on Jun 20, 2018 22:46:52 GMT
Ronaldo and Messi are clearly the two best players ever by a very wide margin. If you disagree with that, find another sport.
For me Messi is the better of the two based on being as good a goalscorer and a much better creator week to week. Having said that, I've thought for a while that Ronaldo will be recognised by history as being a better player due to his superior record at international level and CL level. The fact Messi is better in the the league nearly every year is relevant now, but it won't be as much as time goes on.
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Post by Carl LaFong on Jun 20, 2018 22:50:26 GMT
"Ronaldo and Messi are clearly the two best players ever by a very wide margin. If you disagree with that, find another sport."
Rollox.
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Jun 21, 2018 0:21:02 GMT
"Ronaldo and Messi are clearly the two best players ever by a very wide margin. If you disagree with that, find another sport." Rollox. If "rollox" means "nonsense", I am in complete agreement! |
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Post by weststigersbob on Jun 21, 2018 0:44:24 GMT
The simple fact is that Football will NEVER have a GOAT.
It far too much of a team sport for an individual to stand so far alone to be considered a GOAT.
As an example - George Weah. Brilliant, Outstanding player. Will never be in contention for greatest anything even on a continental scale, because he played for such a weak national side in Liberia.....
If you go by International trophies and Club trophies, how the f—k can Messi be in GOAT discussion, but a player like Ramos or Iniesta isn’t? (or any Spanish player who also played for Barca or Real). Won just as much in clubland as Messi or CR7, won more internationally.......
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Post by Excellent Bulletproof Vest on Jun 21, 2018 8:17:05 GMT
"Ronaldo and Messi are clearly the two best players ever by a very wide margin. If you disagree with that, find another sport." Rollox. "Ronaldo and Messi are clearly the two best players ever by a very wide margin. If you disagree with that, find another sport." Rollox. If "rollox" means "nonsense", I am in complete agreement! Whoever you think's better, what were they doing that was better than scoring 40-70 goals per season nearly every year for ten years in the best league in the world, while dominating the strongest competition in football? |
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Post by kevin on Jun 21, 2018 8:32:00 GMT
Not #1 for me, but he's definitely up there with the best. I'd say he's at #5 right now behind Pelé, Cruyff, Messi & Maradonna. Out of these 5 I've only seen Messi & Ronaldo play a lot of games, but based on what I've seen from Pelé, Cuyff and Maradonna those 3 are worthy of their reputations. After those 5 it gets a bit less easy to pick the best players. There are the defenders like Baresi, Maldini & Beckenbauer, midfielders like Zidane, Platini & Xavi and attackers like Di Stefano, Van Basten, Puskas, Eusebio and Gullit. In the end I think there's no single GOAT. Just like with movies everyone has a different opinion and that's what makes it fun. I'm just really happy that we have 2 masterful players at the same time right now. I think we have to go all the way back to Cruyff & Beckenbauer to find another rivalry like this and that one is also not really the same as it was between an attacker and a defender.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Jun 21, 2018 11:59:05 GMT
The simple fact is that Football will NEVER have a GOAT. It far too much of a team sport for an individual to stand so far alone to be considered a GOAT. As an example - George Weah. Brilliant, Outstanding player. Will never be in contention for greatest anything even on a continental scale, because he played for such a weak national side in Liberia..... If you go by International trophies and Club trophies, how the f—k can Messi be in GOAT discussion, but a player like Ramos or Iniesta isn’t? (or any Spanish player who also played for Barca or Real). Won just as much in clubland as Messi or CR7, won more internationally....... Trophies aren't the case builders, trophies are the deal breakers. When players are all but equal, trophies then become highlighted. Robert Horry isn't a top 50 NBA player of all time with his 7 titles. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 21, 2018 12:12:45 GMT
The simple fact is that Football will NEVER have a GOAT. It far too much of a team sport for an individual to stand so far alone to be considered a GOAT. As an example - George Weah. Brilliant, Outstanding player. Will never be in contention for greatest anything even on a continental scale, because he played for such a weak national side in Liberia..... If you go by International trophies and Club trophies, how the f—k can Messi be in GOAT discussion, but a player like Ramos or Iniesta isn’t? (or any Spanish player who also played for Barca or Real). Won just as much in clubland as Messi or CR7, won more internationally....... Agreed. In America at least, the 'GOAT' talk in any given sport always revolves around two things: championships and stats. Championships alone aren't enough in my opinion, because a great player can get stuck on bad teams. And stats aren't enough in soccer (ahem, football). Somewhere on the board yesterday there was a conversation about how scoring the most goals has become the new measuring stick for 'greatest player.' While I agree there's much more to the game than goals, there aren't a ton of stats to base an argument on. Maybe more than any other major team sport, soccer relies on the eyeball test. You know greatness when you see it, it can't really be determined in a box score or a trophy case. |
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Jun 21, 2018 12:24:26 GMT
"Ronaldo and Messi are clearly the two best players ever by a very wide margin. If you disagree with that, find another sport." Rollox. If "rollox" means "nonsense", I am in complete agreement! Whoever you think's better, what were they doing that was better than scoring 40-70 goals per season nearly every year for ten years in the best league in the world, while dominating the strongest competition in football? Did Cristiano Ronaldo score a goal like this one in a World Cup final at age 17? |
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Post by Excellent Bulletproof Vest on Jun 21, 2018 13:28:38 GMT
Whoever you think's better, what were they doing that was better than scoring 40-70 goals per season nearly every year for ten years in the best league in the world, while dominating the strongest competition in football? Did Cristiano Ronaldo score a goal like this one in a World Cup final at age 17? No, but he could have done if he'd played before defending had been invented. |
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Post by Pangolin on Jun 21, 2018 14:32:13 GMT
Gerd Müller still rules.  |
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Post by Carl LaFong on Jun 21, 2018 15:18:23 GMT
Gerd Müller still rules. Great legs! |
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runefish
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Post by runefish on Jun 21, 2018 15:38:18 GMT
Agree with Bullet [best two players ever]
bar la liga being te best league in the world - this is however subjective. whats more important though is that the two score in europe at a huge clip and that they score year in year out in their domestic league which is top 3 at a high rate.
Ronaldo is now starting to pull away from Messi in international football and is part of 3 straight CL wins.
For some reason many still rate messi above CR7. that is more due to his individual feats on parwith Ronnie and his game being a bit more 'wtf' than Ronaldo's. Messi's game is more 'alien'. But Ronnie is becoming the better 'winner'.
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kingkhan
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Post by kingkhan on Jun 21, 2018 16:02:39 GMT
Ronaldo & Messi are no were near being Greatest of all time. Football has changed a lot. Had Baggio or Van Bustern played for either Currently Real or Barca for 10 years without Injuries they could have also achieve everything that Messi & Ronaldo have achieved. Playing for Best teams in Europe for 10 consecutive seasons as main Attaker that too without being an injury pron many good players could have achieved their achievement.
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runefish
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Post by runefish on Jun 21, 2018 16:17:53 GMT
Kingkhan - your statement reads as if you think Messi and Ronaldo are lucky to not have been injured (much) and to be playing at two top clubs..
Alot of 'luck' is made by the players.
Rio Ferdinand stated that when Ronaldo was much younger (at united) . He (ronaldo) was the first person that Rio saw with dietritionists, personal trainers, phycolgists (an entourage paid for by ronaldo for ronaldos fitness improvment and longevity- the club was not involved)
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Jun 21, 2018 17:17:02 GMT
Did Cristiano Ronaldo score a goal like this one in a World Cup final at age 17? No, but he could have done if he'd played before defending had been invented. Pelé was hunted down mercilessly to the point of having to abandon two consecutive World Cups with injuries, so don't give me this shit.
I will grant you this: if it were possible to transport peak Cristiano Ronaldo to the 60s and have him play for one of the rivals of Pelé’s team, I have no doubt that he would have totally eclipsed Pelé. Conversely, if you could bring peak Pelé to the present and put him on a team in the Spanish league, he would struggle to make an impact at first. However, nobody is going to convince me that given a few months to adapt to present-day football and to get in what is considered good shape today, he wouldn’t do better than either Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo.
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Post by Excellent Bulletproof Vest on Jun 21, 2018 17:25:20 GMT
No, but he could have done if he'd played before defending had been invented. Pelé was hunted down mercilessly to the point of having to abandon two consecutive World Cups with injuries, so don't give me this shit.
I will grant you this: if it were possible to transport peak Cristiano Ronaldo to the 60s and have him play for one of the rivals of Pelé’s team, I have no doubt that he would have totally eclipsed Pelé. Conversely, if you could bring peak Pelé to the present and put him on a team in the Spanish league, he would struggle to make an impact at first. However, nobody is going to convince me that given a few months to adapt to present-day football and to get in what is considered good shape today, he wouldn’t do better than either Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo.
So when you say Pele is better what you're arguing is that if Pele had time travelled to the present day the hypothetical Pele who had access to modern equipment, tactics etc. would do better than Messi or Ronaldo. You know what, I agree with you I can't possibly convince you that players who actually exist in the real world are better than a player who only exists in your imagination and who you have already decided is better than both of them. I don't think it has any relevance to who the greatest of all time is though. By the way, being injury prone isn't a positive. |
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