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Post by charzhino on Jun 21, 2018 13:38:07 GMT
The X-Men is meant for all ages, always has been. I don't get why anyone would think otherwise. And the people making Star Wars now are the people Lucas chose to replace him, not Disney employees. Ask a bunch of 9-12 year olds to watch Logan, X2, DOFP, The Wolverine then ask them to watch Ragnarok, GotG, Antman and Doctor Strange and see which they enjoy more. |
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palerider
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Post by palerider on Jun 21, 2018 13:47:07 GMT
The X-Men is meant for all ages, always has been. I don't get why anyone would think otherwise. And the people making Star Wars now are the people Lucas chose to replace him, not Disney employees. Ask a bunch of 9-12 year olds to watch Logan, X2, DOFP, The Wolverine then ask them to watch Ragnarok, GotG, Antman and Doctor Strange and see which they enjoy more. So what, they're all for kids (except Logan, but that's just your typical Eastwood/Bronson movie) but some are made more modern than the other cheaper ones using outdated techniques? |
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Post by charzhino on Jun 21, 2018 13:51:45 GMT
Ask a bunch of 9-12 year olds to watch Logan, X2, DOFP, The Wolverine then ask them to watch Ragnarok, GotG, Antman and Doctor Strange and see which they enjoy more. So what, they're all for kids (except Logan, but that's just your typical Eastwood/Bronson movie) but some are made more modern than the other cheaper ones using outdated techniques? Wrong answer. Kids will prefer the MCU ones because they over emphasise bright colours, overload of CGI effects and thin, lighthearted stories with little drama or real threat. They would get bored watching films like Nolans batman trilogy or Xmen movies. Hence MCU is more tailored for children. Why are you ashamed to admit that, its a fact. |
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palerider
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Post by palerider on Jun 21, 2018 14:01:24 GMT
So what, they're all for kids (except Logan, but that's just your typical Eastwood/Bronson movie) but some are made more modern than the other cheaper ones using outdated techniques? Wrong answer. Kids will prefer the MCU ones because they over emphasise bright colours, overload of CGI effects and thin, lighthearted stories with little drama or real threat. They would get bored watching films like Nolans batman trilogy or Xmen movies. Hence MCU is more tailored for children. Why are you ashamed to admit that, its a fact.
I'd say they prefer MCU because they're about more characters who do different things, some about Earth stuff, some about Magic stuff, some about aliens, etc. The X-Men movies don't bother with real variety, while the comics do offer things like X-Men stories in space, other dimensions, the Savage Land, etc.
Nolans' movies and the X-Movies are just the same old stuff, repeated over and over again.
And I fail to see how you can do stories about Demon Gods and Space Aliens without any FX at all.
No drama or threats? You can say that about the X-Movies too.
Thin stories? DOFP was full of plot holes. Arguably the whole movie was one big plot hole.
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Post by summers8 on Jun 21, 2018 14:24:32 GMT
So what, they're all for kids (except Logan, but that's just your typical Eastwood/Bronson movie) but some are made more modern than the other cheaper ones using outdated techniques? Wrong answer. Kids will prefer the MCU ones because they over emphasise bright colours, overload of CGI effects and thin, lighthearted stories with little drama or real threat. They would get bored watching films like Nolans batman trilogy or Xmen movies. Hence MCU is more tailored for children. Why are you ashamed to admit that, its a fact. have you ever seen Inception? its everything dr strange should have been. |
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palerider
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Post by palerider on Jun 21, 2018 14:38:18 GMT
Wrong answer. Kids will prefer the MCU ones because they over emphasise bright colours, overload of CGI effects and thin, lighthearted stories with little drama or real threat. They would get bored watching films like Nolans batman trilogy or Xmen movies. Hence MCU is more tailored for children. Why are you ashamed to admit that, its a fact. have you ever seen Inception? its everything dr strange should have been. I saw Inception, once it turned out the movie was just a fancy heist film and the entire movie was due to Dicaprios' characters' stupidity it became less enjoyable.
Dr Strange had a truly inventive way of dealing with its villain.
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Post by scabab on Jun 21, 2018 15:12:05 GMT
They could but they wont. Dumbing down villains, lightening stakes and recycling CGI garbage endings to sell merchandise is what theyl do. That's what happened in X-men Apocalypse though. Apocalypse was dumbed down, he should have been the Thanos of the X-men movie series and he is literally best remembered now as a joke because of the whole Ivan Ooze thing. That movie had the same big 20 minute CGI fest action scene too except it wasn't that good. Saying six of the last seven movies have been good...is true but isn't exactly painting the right picture towards it. Two of those movies came from the Wolverine spin-off series. That's now over with because Hugh Jackman is done with it. Two of those movies came from Deadpool which barely classify as a spin-off anyway because they aren't really that connected to the X-men movie series. So when it comes to the actual X-men movies, then it's two out of the last three (or two out of the last four) with the last one being no good. Also of the three, First Class and Apocalypse didn't do that well because unlike Days of Future Past it didn't have Wolverine in it. The next one won't have him either. Yes the MCU movies are more light hearted but not by a whole lot, Black Panther or Civil War weren't particularly less light hearted and family friendly than X-men Apocalypse. X-men belongs to the same comic brand as all the other heroes so why shouldn't they be for the same market as all those others? I don't recall any significant backlash to Spider-man. In fact Sony did the two Amazing Spider-man movies, they weren't well liked and they did so so at the box office and then once Marvel Studios stepped in and made Homecoming then that movie was well liked and was very successful. Star Wars is made by another studio altogether and the prequels had massive backlash themselves so nothing has changed with that. Fans are already not accepting the X-men series right now. People didn't like the last one, they didn't turn up to see it, the amount of fans who want to see X-men under Marvel Studios so they can be in the MCU far out number those who don't and the next movie coming up which is Dark Phoenix nobody is all that interested in because the Dark Phoenix has already been done and Wolverine won't be in it. |
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Post by scabab on Jun 21, 2018 15:19:49 GMT
Also even The Wolverine was actually let down by having that same flaw of having that big cop out CGI ending.
It was a really good, somewhat down to earth movie for the first three quarters then all of a sudden you had Wolverine fighting a giant samurai robot with a fire sword and this weird Poison Ivy wannabe with a bald head spitting out venom.
The Rotten Tomatoes consensus actually mentions this "Although its final act succumbs to the usual cartoonish antics, The Wolverine is one superhero movie that manages to stay true to the comics while keeping casual viewers entertained.
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Post by summers8 on Jun 21, 2018 15:35:43 GMT
They could but they wont. Dumbing down villains, lightening stakes and recycling CGI garbage endings to sell merchandise is what theyl do. That's what happened in X-men Apocalypse though. Apocalypse was dumbed down, he should have been the Thanos of the X-men movie series and he is literally best remembered now as a joke because of the whole Ivan Ooze thing. That movie had the same big 20 minute CGI fest action scene too except it wasn't that good. Saying six of the last seven movies have been good...is true but isn't exactly painting the right picture towards it. Two of those movies came from the Wolverine spin-off series. That's now over with because Hugh Jackman is done with it. Two of those movies came from Deadpool which barely classify as a spin-off anyway because they aren't really that connected to the X-men movie series. So when it comes to the actual X-men movies, then it's two out of the last three (or two out of the last four) with the last one being no good. Also of the three, First Class and Apocalypse didn't do that well because unlike Days of Future Past it didn't have Wolverine in it. The next one won't have him either. Yes the MCU movies are more light hearted but not by a whole lot, Black Panther or Civil War weren't particularly less light hearted and family friendly than X-men Apocalypse. X-men belongs to the same comic brand as all the other heroes so why shouldn't they be for the same market as all those others? I don't recall any significant backlash to Spider-man. In fact Sony did the two Amazing Spider-man movies, they weren't well liked and they did so so at the box office and then once Marvel Studios stepped in and made Homecoming then that movie was well liked and was very successful. Star Wars is made by another studio altogether and the prequels had massive backlash themselves so nothing has changed with that. Fans are already not accepting the X-men series right now. People didn't like the last one, they didn't turn up to see it, the amount of fans who want to see X-men under Marvel Studios so they can be in the MCU far out number those who don't and the next movie coming up which is Dark Phoenix nobody is all that interested in because the Dark Phoenix has already been done and Wolverine won't be in it. the idea that xmen fans wants to see xmen in the mcu is a lie. unless the fake xmen fans. there is nothing in the mcu that is in line in with xmen's lore. xmen fans are very aware that mcu movies are a contradiction to xmen stories and disney cannot tell xmen stories they way it should be told. let me ask you, how will mcu disney adapt a comic like Inferno or the mutant massacre? how would they have adapted DOFP or old man logan/the death of wolverine? like fox did with logan and dofp? this was the mcu that banned tony stark's substance abuse issues, meaning xavier's part in dofp will not be there and no xmen fan will be okay with that because the movie will be dumbed down.
xmen fans , we want more movies like logan, deadpool and dofp, because that fits our comics tone and style of story telling more. mcu movies don't. mcu has admitted their movies will always be funny, aimed at kids and light-hearted and that is not xmen not even xmen tas. there was a significant backlash to homecoming, many just felt it was generic and disneyfied compared to the older movies so they just disposed it after a few months.
Look at black panther, its a generic version of first class more like thor 1, so why would an xmen fan want an xmen movie like black panther, when we already have better?the mcu formula has already gotten stale and continues to loose more credibility in serious film making, one of the reason Logan was so artistically loved in 2017 above gotg 2, homecoming, Thor 3. why will an xmen fan give that up so xmen can be in the mcu with mcu forumla? see the contradiction?please stop confusing mcu fans and xmen fans.
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Post by charzhino on Jun 21, 2018 15:44:34 GMT
That's what happened in X-men Apocalypse though. Apocalypse was dumbed down, he should have been the Thanos of the X-men movie series and he is literally best remembered now as a joke because of the whole Ivan Ooze thing. That movie had the same big 20 minute CGI fest action scene too except it wasn't that good. Apocalypse is the outlier like Winter Soldier is for the MCU. Its the exception not the rule. It doesnt matter what sub division they belong to, end of the day they are Fox Xmen IP productions and they gave their directors enough freedom to innovate with their own style to produce uniquely developed content. When moving forwards the prediction should follow this trend. Xmen is for more maturer content readers, its always been the case. Their stories are born out of adult problems. Adult themes that kids will be bored by and have no interest in. We will see how Dark Phoniex does. People didnt turn up for Apocalypse as much as hoped, but thats because it was poorly handled. Suicide Squad made more money yet was 10x worse so it dont mean zilch. People turned up for Deadpool and Logan after Apocalypse, the Fox logo still has faith in viewers. "Fans" who want to see Xmen in MCU are shallow. All they care about is seeing pretty costumes and bombastic explosions. |
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palerider
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Post by palerider on Jun 21, 2018 15:45:06 GMT
That's what happened in X-men Apocalypse though. Apocalypse was dumbed down, he should have been the Thanos of the X-men movie series and he is literally best remembered now as a joke because of the whole Ivan Ooze thing. That movie had the same big 20 minute CGI fest action scene too except it wasn't that good. Saying six of the last seven movies have been good...is true but isn't exactly painting the right picture towards it. Two of those movies came from the Wolverine spin-off series. That's now over with because Hugh Jackman is done with it. Two of those movies came from Deadpool which barely classify as a spin-off anyway because they aren't really that connected to the X-men movie series. So when it comes to the actual X-men movies, then it's two out of the last three (or two out of the last four) with the last one being no good. Also of the three, First Class and Apocalypse didn't do that well because unlike Days of Future Past it didn't have Wolverine in it. The next one won't have him either. Yes the MCU movies are more light hearted but not by a whole lot, Black Panther or Civil War weren't particularly less light hearted and family friendly than X-men Apocalypse. X-men belongs to the same comic brand as all the other heroes so why shouldn't they be for the same market as all those others? I don't recall any significant backlash to Spider-man. In fact Sony did the two Amazing Spider-man movies, they weren't well liked and they did so so at the box office and then once Marvel Studios stepped in and made Homecoming then that movie was well liked and was very successful. Star Wars is made by another studio altogether and the prequels had massive backlash themselves so nothing has changed with that. Fans are already not accepting the X-men series right now. People didn't like the last one, they didn't turn up to see it, the amount of fans who want to see X-men under Marvel Studios so they can be in the MCU far out number those who don't and the next movie coming up which is Dark Phoenix nobody is all that interested in because the Dark Phoenix has already been done and Wolverine won't be in it. the idea that xmen fans wants to see xmen in the mcu is a lie. unless the fake xmen fans. there is nothing in the mcu that is in line in with xmen's lore. xmen fans are very aware that mcu movies are a contradiction to xmen stories and disney cannot tell xmen stories they way it should be told. let me ask you, how will mcu disney adapt a comic like Inferno or the mutant massacre? how would they have adapted DOFP or old man logan/the death of wolverine? like fox did with logan and dofp? this was the mcu that banned tony stark's substance abuse issues, meaning xavier's part in dofp will not be there and no xmen fan will be okay with that because the movie will be dumbed down.
xmen fans , we want more movies like logan, deadpool and dofp, because that fits our comics tone and style of story telling more. mcu movies don't. mcu has admitted their movies will always be funny, aimed at kids and light-hearted and that is not xmen not even xmen tas. there was a significant backlash to homecoming, many just felt it was generic and disneyfied compared to the older movies so they just disposed it after a few months.
Look at black panther, its a generic version of first class more like thor 1, so why would an xmen fan want an xmen movie like black panther, when we already have better?the mcu formula has already gotten stale and continues to loose more credibility in serious film making, one of the reason Logan was so artistically loved in 2017 above gotg 2, homecoming, Thor 3. why will an xmen fan give that up so xmen can be in the mcu with mcu forumla? see the contradiction?please stop confusing mcu fans and xmen fans.
Plenty of X-Men fans want it, you can't speak for all of them.
Actually, the MCU is very much in line with the X-Lore. Only difference is that the X-Movies refuse to develop the premise and grow, whereas the MCU does.
Inferno? Mutant Massacre? Those were terrible stories to begin with. They wouldn't bother with Logan as they don't do those AUs and focus on tighter continuity and DOFP was a very plot hole ridden story anyways.
The MCU didn't ban Tony's problems...they gave him PTSD. They'd do a better job with Xavier in DOFP, because Xavier got over his problems in one scene.
Logan was just your typical Clint Eastwood/Charles Bronson movie and can't be repeated since it relied on Logan dying at the end. Deadpool is an MCU story more or less. DOFP was full of plot holes.
Homecoming had no backlash, I don't know what you're talking about and I suspect you don't either.
Black Panther was better than First Class, much better.
The MCU's only formula is success, which the X-Men need.
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Post by charzhino on Jun 21, 2018 15:48:06 GMT
The Rotten Tomatoes consensus actually mentions this " Although its final act succumbs to the usual cartoonish antics, The Wolverine is one superhero movie that manages to stay true to the comics while keeping casual viewers entertained. That sums up pretty much every MCU movie yet they get over praised. The critics are brand loyal shills. |
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Post by summers8 on Jun 21, 2018 15:49:03 GMT
That's what happened in X-men Apocalypse though. Apocalypse was dumbed down, he should have been the Thanos of the X-men movie series and he is literally best remembered now as a joke because of the whole Ivan Ooze thing. That movie had the same big 20 minute CGI fest action scene too except it wasn't that good. Apocalypse is the outlier like Winter Soldier is for the MCU. Its the exception not the rule. It doesnt matter what sub division they belong to, end of the day they are Fox Xmen IP productions and they gave their directors enough freedom to innovate with their own style to produce uniquely developed content. When moving forwards the prediction should follow this trend. Xmen is for more maturer content readers, its always been the case. Their stories are born out of adult problems. Adult themes that kids will be bored by and have no interest in. We will see how Dark Phoniex does. People didnt turn up for Apocalypse as much as hoped, but thats because it was poorly handled. Suicide Squad made more money yet was 10x worse so it dont mean zilch. People turned up for Deadpool and Logan after Apocalypse, the Fox logo still has faith in viewers. "Fans" who want to see Xmen in MCU are shallow. All they care about is seeing pretty costumes and bombastic explosions. they are not fans of xmen. they are mcu fans calling themselves xmen fans.
notice these fans dont talk about any xmen comic story or just lie about it?
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palerider
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Post by palerider on Jun 21, 2018 15:49:11 GMT
That's what happened in X-men Apocalypse though. Apocalypse was dumbed down, he should have been the Thanos of the X-men movie series and he is literally best remembered now as a joke because of the whole Ivan Ooze thing. That movie had the same big 20 minute CGI fest action scene too except it wasn't that good. Apocalypse is the outlier like Winter Soldier is for the MCU. Its the exception not the rule. It doesnt matter what sub division they belong to, end of the day they are Fox Xmen IP productions and they gave their directors enough freedom to innovate with their own style to produce uniquely developed content. When moving forwards the prediction should follow this trend. Xmen is for more maturer content readers, its always been the case. Their stories are born out of adult problems. Adult themes that kids will be bored by and have no interest in. We will see how Dark Phoniex does. People didnt turn up for Apocalypse as much as hoped, but thats because it was poorly handled. Suicide Squad made more money yet was 10x worse so it dont mean zilch. People turned up for Deadpool and Logan after Apocalypse, the Fox logo still has faith in viewers. "Fans" who want to see Xmen in MCU are shallow. All they care about is seeing pretty costumes and bombastic explosions. Apocalypse is basically them showing they have no new ideas. It's a sign of how they are now.
The MCU gives freedom too, look at James Gunn and Taiki Wakiti. They just won't let a director destroy their entire Universe.
No, X-Men has always been aimed at the same age groups. Their claim of being about adult issues is really nonsense because X-Men doesn't work as a racism allegory.
No, I think they just want stuff like the X-Men being about competent heroes who SUCCEED at their mission of being more accepted (which they X-Men suck at) and then doing other stuff like going to the Savage Land or into Space or things like that. As it is, the X-Men are very incompetent.
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palerider
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Post by palerider on Jun 21, 2018 15:49:59 GMT
Apocalypse is the outlier like Winter Soldier is for the MCU. Its the exception not the rule. It doesnt matter what sub division they belong to, end of the day they are Fox Xmen IP productions and they gave their directors enough freedom to innovate with their own style to produce uniquely developed content. When moving forwards the prediction should follow this trend. Xmen is for more maturer content readers, its always been the case. Their stories are born out of adult problems. Adult themes that kids will be bored by and have no interest in. We will see how Dark Phoniex does. People didnt turn up for Apocalypse as much as hoped, but thats because it was poorly handled. Suicide Squad made more money yet was 10x worse so it dont mean zilch. People turned up for Deadpool and Logan after Apocalypse, the Fox logo still has faith in viewers. "Fans" who want to see Xmen in MCU are shallow. All they care about is seeing pretty costumes and bombastic explosions. they are not fans of xmen. they are mcu fans calling themselves xmen fans.
notice these fans dont talk about any xmen comic story or just lie about it?
We do talk about...the ones that aren't just the same old "Mutant Registration Act" stuff and about cooler stories like the Savage Land or Mojoworld. |
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palerider
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Post by palerider on Jun 21, 2018 15:50:40 GMT
The Rotten Tomatoes consensus actually mentions this " Although its final act succumbs to the usual cartoonish antics, The Wolverine is one superhero movie that manages to stay true to the comics while keeping casual viewers entertained. That sums up pretty much every MCU movie yet they get over praised. The critics are brand loyal shills. I fail to see how Outer Space stuff or Demons from another dimension or things like that can be done without any FX. |
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Post by summers8 on Jun 21, 2018 15:53:46 GMT
The Rotten Tomatoes consensus actually mentions this " Although its final act succumbs to the usual cartoonish antics, The Wolverine is one superhero movie that manages to stay true to the comics while keeping casual viewers entertained. That sums up pretty much every MCU movie yet they get over praised. The critics are brand loyal shills. black panther final arc visual effect? more cartoonish. gotg 2 awful awful awful even worse
lol...see why no way takes critics seriously any more? I will say these about critics. their honesty with xmen helped it because xmen learns from the mistakes and got better. critics protecting mcu movies hurt mcu in the end, thank goodnes for film makers that spoke up against mcu movies.
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palerider
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Post by palerider on Jun 21, 2018 15:55:40 GMT
That sums up pretty much every MCU movie yet they get over praised. The critics are brand loyal shills. black panther final arc visual effect? more cartoonish. gotg 2 awful awful awful even worse
lol...see why no way takes critics seriously any more? I will say these about critics. their honesty with xmen helped it because xmen learns from the mistakes and got better. critics protecting mcu movies hurt mcu in the end, thank goodnes for film makers that spoke up against mcu movies.
The GOTG fx were Oscar nominated. Which X-Men doesn't get anymore, because their FX stink.
Those MCU FX are only bad if you hate stuff like space aliens and futuristic technology and stuff.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jun 21, 2018 15:57:24 GMT
Its over. I give up.
we know what is coming....we always knew. disney has won. they can have fox , for all I care. I will likely hate disney xmen as I hate disney mcu movies.
I am just glad xmen at least pulled a star wars with fox with xmen 1, X2, Logan, Deadpool, DOFP, First Class and The Wolverine that will come back to hunt disney ''kiddie'' xmen the same way the sam raimi movies did.
Good also I am a comic person first.
So what is next?
I have to admit I have a bad feeling about this! (Star Wars pun intended). I fear Disney is going to turn the X-Men into another version of the GotG. (Insert face plant here). |
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Post by summers8 on Jun 21, 2018 16:00:41 GMT
Its over. I give up.
we know what is coming....we always knew. disney has won. they can have fox , for all I care. I will likely hate disney xmen as I hate disney mcu movies.
I am just glad xmen at least pulled a star wars with fox with xmen 1, X2, Logan, Deadpool, DOFP, First Class and The Wolverine that will come back to hunt disney ''kiddie'' xmen the same way the sam raimi movies did.
Good also I am a comic person first.
So what is next?
I have to admit I have a bad feeling about this! (Star Wars pun intended). I fear Disney is going to turn the X-Men into another version of the GotG. (Insert face plant here). well said.
and a good triva.
gotg movies is nothing like the comics in tone or style. gotg movie is a pure disney thing, reason it is called one of the most kid friendly movies.
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