Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 18:13:16 GMT
ITS CALLED A MENTOR FIGURE! How many times do I have to tell you this? It's also similar to how Admiral Raddus trained and inspired a young Ensign Ackbar in "Home One: An Ackbar Story: The Legend Begins: Part 1" Exactly! A masterful character piece that movie is! I love the scene where young Ack springs his first trap! Brings a tear to my eye every time!
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palerider
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Post by palerider on Jun 22, 2018 18:19:03 GMT
His philosophies and being an Icon for people instead of a man (which means not bothering to be a public figure as Bruce) came from Ra's. The idea for a costume came from Ra's. Him wanting to study those things were ineffectual until he met Ra's.
His minimal screentime doesn't change how the movie really revolves around Ra's.
Dude. This is how most quest/hero based stories are written! You could say the same about The Ancient One, Doctor Erskon (Cap 1), Obi Wan Kenobi, Gandalf, Uncle Ben, Odin, Nick Fury.... ITS CALLED A MENTOR FIGURE! How many times do I have to tell you this? None of those mentors were the stars of the movie over the supposed lead.
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Post by Oh My Aching Ackbar-Raddus! on Jun 22, 2018 18:30:20 GMT
ITS CALLED A MENTOR FIGURE! How many times do I have to tell you this? It's also similar to how Admiral Raddus trained and inspired a young Ensign Ackbar in "Home One: An Ackbar Story: The Legend Begins: Part 1" LEGENDARY! I'm getting misty eyed just thinking about it.
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Post by Oh My Aching Ackbar-Raddus! on Jun 22, 2018 18:33:56 GMT
Dude. This is how most quest/hero based stories are written! You could say the same about The Ancient One, Doctor Erskon (Cap 1), Obi Wan Kenobi, Gandalf, Uncle Ben, Odin, Nick Fury.... ITS CALLED A MENTOR FIGURE! How many times do I have to tell you this? None of those mentors were the stars of the movie over the supposed lead. A legend doesn't have to be a star to be important.
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Post by Vassaggo on Jun 22, 2018 18:42:54 GMT
X-Men: ending huge CGI wave of Mutant making Radiation sorta like a big explosion. Cgi'ed Wolverine Matrix spin cutting through Statue of Liberties Crown. Cgi'ed spinny Radiation Maker explodes when wolverine hits it. They would've had more but they kind of ran out of money. X2 ending Cgi'ed dam break with cgi'ed water rushing split by Jean with cgi'ed lifting of the X-Jet. X3 ending Cgi'ed Goldengate Bridge moved and ending in a Cgi'ed Water Wall and panoramic shot of soldiers buldings towers mutants being ripped apart.
The issue isn't the use of CGI on its own, it would be ludicrous to think that a major action themed films couldn't have no CGI at all. The differences highlighted were that MCU (and DCEU) almost always go for bombastic, over the top CGI finales for their end fights with little in terms of resolving character-story developments. I've seen @forceghostackbar complain about this in a thread he made recently, that it does get boring just seeing CGI concrete flying everywhere and superheros punching baddies in front of green screens just for the sake of it. It was spectacular when the first Avengers did it, but how many more times can you see that kind of thing before it gets tedious and repetitive? Only Civil War and Winter Soldier have distinct, personal endings where the full focus is on characters and plot. Winter Soldiers conclusion has CGI explosions with the helicarriers but the main point of focus is on the emotional conflict between Cap and Bucky and is personalised through their 1 on 1 fight. Civil War ends similarly, a personal conflict between 2 characters that the story has progressed to achieve a tense fight. Almost every other MCU film goes for the lazy, excessive CGI big action set pieces with no real care for the plot. DCEU is even worse, every one of their films have ended this way, even the good ones like Wonder Woman have been criticised for the final act where its just CGI in your face non-stop.
Those Xmen films don't suffer the same problem with the exception of Apocalypse. The CGI is very minimal and the focus is on story and character.
X1 has a critical moment where Rogue is thought to have died but Wolverine is willing to sacrifice himself to save her through his healing factor that almost killed him earlier in the film. That's strong character focus.
X2 has very little CGI and focuses on Jean Grey willing to die to save the Xmen.
X3 has the most CGI but the even then the conclusion is Wolverine having to make an impossible decision to give up his romantic interest permanently in order to save Jean herself from the inside because she cant control the Phoenix. The CGI fights surrounding it is not the main focus or spectacle, the story always comes first as this scene shows
That scene in X3 is very similar to wintet soldier. Lots of CGI destruction happening in the background but the camera is zoomed and focused on the inner conflict of the 2 characters.
Compare it to Suicide Squad, Ragnarok, GotG, Antman, Black Panther, Doctor Strange, Age of Ultron, The Dark World, BvS, Homecoming, all mundane run of the mill CGI bonanzas with little at stake and no real care for plot, characters or themes.
Christopher Nolans Batman trilogy is a good comparison to Xmen in how he ends his films. Because the set up to his movies are so good in the first 2 acts, the CGI effects he uses in the final act are just supports to how he concludes his endings rather than the main star of the show themselves. When has MCU or DCEU ever ending a film so elegantly as this
Only Apocalypse does. I can see your point the X-films do have some quiet moments in their 3rd acts. I would say MCU has decent amount too, but they may get overshadowed. I just may disagree on which endings in the X-films I think are bombastic enough to overshadow their moments. I would put X3, Origins, and Apocalypse in that category. And possibly First Class. I just have a few problems with that ending. It's not bad perse just I didn't love it.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Jun 22, 2018 19:09:59 GMT
Dude. This is how most quest/hero based stories are written! You could say the same about The Ancient One, Doctor Erskon (Cap 1), Obi Wan Kenobi, Gandalf, Uncle Ben, Odin, Nick Fury.... ITS CALLED A MENTOR FIGURE! How many times do I have to tell you this? None of those mentors were the stars of the movie over the supposed lead. I fail to see how Ra's was the star of the movie when he was only in it for 20+ minutes
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palerider
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Post by palerider on Jun 22, 2018 19:25:57 GMT
None of those mentors were the stars of the movie over the supposed lead. I fail to see how Ra's was the star of the movie when he was only in it for 20+ minutes Without him Bruce would be utterly ineffectual, Scarecrow was doing everything on his orders, etc. Everything revolved around him, all they needed to say was that the League were the ones who killed the Waynes to complete his dominance of the story.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jun 22, 2018 20:28:24 GMT
I fail to see how Ra's was the star of the movie when he was only in it for 20+ minutes Without him Bruce would be utterly ineffectual, Scarecrow was doing everything on his orders, etc. Everything revolved around him, all they needed to say was that the League were the ones who killed the Waynes to complete his dominance of the story. A villain influencing a plot is something common in comic books. Hell Iron Man 1 plot was heaviy influence by the villain. Did you hate that movie too?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 20:36:11 GMT
Dude. This is how most quest/hero based stories are written! You could say the same about The Ancient One, Doctor Erskon (Cap 1), Obi Wan Kenobi, Gandalf, Uncle Ben, Odin, Nick Fury.... ITS CALLED A MENTOR FIGURE! How many times do I have to tell you this? None of those mentors were the stars of the movie over the supposed lead. How the hell was Ra's the star? He is gone for all of act two!
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Jun 22, 2018 20:41:14 GMT
None of those mentors were the stars of the movie over the supposed lead. How the hell was Ra's the star? He is gone for all of act two!
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Jun 22, 2018 22:08:23 GMT
I fail to see how Ra's was the star of the movie when he was only in it for 20+ minutes Without him Bruce would be utterly ineffectual, Scarecrow was doing everything on his orders, etc. Everything revolved around him, all they needed to say was that the League were the ones who killed the Waynes to complete his dominance of the story. That still doesn't make him the star of the movie. There's always a "man behind the man" trope for villains in all movies. Doesn't make them the star tho
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 22, 2018 23:20:02 GMT
Without him Bruce would be utterly ineffectual, Scarecrow was doing everything on his orders, etc. Everything revolved around him, all they needed to say was that the League were the ones who killed the Waynes to complete his dominance of the story. That still doesn't make him the star of the movie. There's always a "man behind the man" trope for villains in all movies. Doesn't make them the star tho Yeah, the star of the movie isn't always the most powerful character in the movie.
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Post by summers8 on Aug 7, 2018 20:13:02 GMT
BUMP... well..I already said I am cool with disney buying fox. now it is time to watch the beautiful disaster that is mcu-xmen that will make X3 look great. MCU fans now have to defend their garbage comedy mcu xmen to us real xmen fans against the Logans and DOFPs. If mcu xmen is even lucky, because as Spielberg said, comic movies will die out soon.
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Post by bud47 on Aug 7, 2018 20:36:51 GMT
BUMP... well..I already said I am cool with disney buying fox. now it is time to watch the beautiful disaster that is mcu-xmen that will make X3 look great. MCU fans now have to defend their garbage comedy mcu xmen to us real xmen fans against the Logans and DOFPs. If mcu xmen is even lucky, because as Spielberg said, comic movies will die out soon.
I don't know why, but it seems to me that maybe you're not so cool with it. Who cares what Spielberg says? You keep bringing up all of these directors and actors because for some reason you need their opinions to validate yours and you need the opinions of everyone else to match up with yours.
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Post by summers8 on Aug 7, 2018 20:54:28 GMT
BUMP... well..I already said I am cool with disney buying fox. now it is time to watch the beautiful disaster that is mcu-xmen that will make X3 look great. MCU fans now have to defend their garbage comedy mcu xmen to us real xmen fans against the Logans and DOFPs. If mcu xmen is even lucky, because as Spielberg said, comic movies will die out soon.
I don't know why, but it seems to me that maybe you're not so cool with it. Who cares what Spielberg says? You keep bringing up all of these directors and actors because for some reason you need their opinions to validate yours and you need the opinions of everyone else to match up with yours.
You dismiss the great Spielberg but embrace Kevin Feige that thinks CGI means story telling.LOL. Don't ever dismiss this
for this
It is disgraceful to the art of cinema.
Thatguy once dismissed James Cameron for his truthful opinions. LOL. you sure act the same way...same person.LMAO.
Ha, collective opinions are collective because it is the truth. our opinions are more about the truth. reason we form them. So as a fan of xmen, I adore the messiah complex story line, how will the mcu comedy brainfart formula work on that story? will it be like thor jokenock? that disgraced the thor comics and entire norse mythology?Funny DOFP stuck to its Dystopian theme. Ragnarök can't even be Ragnarök. As a long time xmen fan, which movie was better? DOFP or Thor 3?
Oh, I am cool with it. want to know why? the star wars effect. we already had real star wars movies to cleanse our minds against disney last jedi garbage. we already have great xmen movies that will do the same. Once your mcu xmen fail and is trashed . we will laugh and watch a classic like X2.
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mog1138
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Post by mog1138 on Aug 7, 2018 22:12:32 GMT
I don't know why, but it seems to me that maybe you're not so cool with it. Who cares what Spielberg says? You keep bringing up all of these directors and actors because for some reason you need their opinions to validate yours and you need the opinions of everyone else to match up with yours.
You dismiss the great Spielberg but embrace Kevin Feige that thinks CGI means story telling.LOL. Don't ever dismiss this
for this
It is disgraceful to the art of cinema.
Thatguy once dismissed James Cameron for his truthful opinions. LOL. you sure act the same way...same person.LMAO.
Ha, collective opinions are collective because it is the truth. our opinions are more about the truth. reason we form them. So as a fan of xmen, I adore the messiah complex story line, how will the mcu comedy brainfart formula work on that story? will it be like thor jokenock? that disgraced the thor comics and entire norse mythology?Funny DOFP stuck to its Dystopian theme. Ragnarök can't even be Ragnarök. As a long time xmen fan, which movie was better? DOFP or Thor 3?
Oh, I am cool with it. want to know why? the star wars effect. we already had real star wars movies to cleanse our minds against disney last jedi garbage. we already have great xmen movies that will do the same. Once your mcu xmen fail and is trashed . we will laugh and watch a classic like X2. Funny they felt the need to give Kitty magic time travelling hands. HUGE disgrace to the X-Men comics. I hope that Tim Miller Kitty movie somehow sees the time of day at Marvel Studios. I'd be okay with an Excalibur movie though. Also I like Thor Ragnarok because of this guy more than Marvel
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Aug 7, 2018 22:17:00 GMT
So how long until Disney buys DC?
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mog1138
Freshman
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Post by mog1138 on Aug 8, 2018 0:38:39 GMT
So how long until Disney buys DC?
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Post by summers8 on Aug 8, 2018 5:31:36 GMT
You dismiss the great Spielberg but embrace Kevin Feige that thinks CGI means story telling.LOL. Don't ever dismiss this
for this
It is disgraceful to the art of cinema.
Thatguy once dismissed James Cameron for his truthful opinions. LOL. you sure act the same way...same person.LMAO.
Ha, collective opinions are collective because it is the truth. our opinions are more about the truth. reason we form them. So as a fan of xmen, I adore the messiah complex story line, how will the mcu comedy brainfart formula work on that story? will it be like thor jokenock? that disgraced the thor comics and entire norse mythology?Funny DOFP stuck to its Dystopian theme. Ragnarök can't even be Ragnarök. As a long time xmen fan, which movie was better? DOFP or Thor 3?
Oh, I am cool with it. want to know why? the star wars effect. we already had real star wars movies to cleanse our minds against disney last jedi garbage. we already have great xmen movies that will do the same. Once your mcu xmen fail and is trashed . we will laugh and watch a classic like X2. Funny they felt the need to give Kitty magic time travelling hands. HUGE disgrace to the X-Men comics. I hope that Tim Miller Kitty movie somehow sees the time of day at Marvel Studios. I'd be okay with an Excalibur movie though. Also I like Thor Ragnarok because of this guy more than Marvel And reason it is called adaption.
they gave kitty time travel powers as a tribute to the comics because in the real comics she is the one that goes back and because in the movie she was not born in 1970s, it made sense logan goes but somehow still give kitty an important role in the movies. by being the one who sends logan back. but the time travel element is still there and it uses the comics way of doing it. sending back a person's consciousness. which in the comics showed the genius of the writing than the typical use of time machine.
the change worked adapting the story to film, most importantly the movie got the content and theme of the comics right, which was what matters the most. a dystopian drama character driven dark movie of luck and hope.Um, let's look at mcu, who created ultron? who was spiderman's best friend, why is GOTG A comedy and not like star gate as the comics are? Why was Thor 3 not like LOTR or Game of Thrones, was the Manderian not an actual terrorist in the comics?
this is where MCU fails. every comic movie changes stuff (xmen, dc, mcu) but what MCU does is change the content of the comics to dumb it down for disney kids and the dumb masses and make it more fun. that is not the change xmen or batman usually makes. there is a big difference.
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Post by scabab on Aug 8, 2018 5:43:00 GMT
The Batman movie series quite literally dumbed itself down for kids after Batman Returns.
They went so far with it that Batman and Robin was practically a toy commercial.
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