hanswilm
Sophomore
old imdb name was Hans-Wilhelm but this site tweaked it to hanswilm
@hanswilm
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Post by hanswilm on Jun 26, 2018 16:04:45 GMT
Seriously I couldn't have imaged a more uninteresting, stupid outcome for the Luke character. That is what they thought up? That? So many Star Wars novels with new adventures for Luke but they came up with a bitter hermit, sucking space cow milk and never leaving the island again?
They should have just left the old characters out and begun the saga 50-100 years after Jedi.
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shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
Posts: 2,514
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Post by shinnickneth on Jun 26, 2018 17:21:37 GMT
Seriously I couldn't have imaged a more uninteresting, stupid outcome for the Luke character. That is what they thought up? That? So many Star Wars novels with new adventures for Luke but they came up with a bitter hermit, sucking space cow milk and never leaving the island again?
They should have just left the old characters out and begun the saga 50-100 years after Jedi. and rumor has it Lando is next to get the Disney treatment...the real Lando (Billy Dee Williams) that is.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jun 27, 2018 8:21:15 GMT
The prevailing opinion is that this was not Luke, but Jake Cowmilker, Luke's paralell universe counterpart (Hamil confirmed that).
And I don't know about uninteresting or stupid, if I had to chose between Jake's or Adult-Diaper Hans' deaths I would chose the former's. Had more style and flair by vanishing into thin air as Jake should, and he at least achieved a little (or not).
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Post by darkpast on Jun 28, 2018 4:29:02 GMT
Seriously I couldn't have imaged a more uninteresting, stupid outcome for the Luke character. That is what they thought up? That? So many Star Wars novels with new adventures for Luke but they came up with a bitter hermit, sucking space cow milk and never leaving the island again?
They should have just left the old characters out and begun the saga 50-100 years after Jedi. and rumor has it Lando is next to get the Disney treatment...the real Lando (Billy Dee Williams) that is. he won't be killed off
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shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Jun 28, 2018 5:59:13 GMT
and rumor has it Lando is next to get the Disney treatment...the real Lando (Billy Dee Williams) that is. he won't be killed off
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Post by merh on Jul 2, 2018 5:05:25 GMT
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jul 3, 2018 18:08:00 GMT
This is just damage control talk from Mark Hamill. Probably encouraged by Disney LucasFilm. His character was horribly written, and it's starting to become obvious that at least half (if not the majority) of the fanbase thinks so. And now it's hard to deny that it's costing them money at the box office and in merchandising. Look at the date on the article. This is just a backsliding attempt at damage control.
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Post by merh on Jul 3, 2018 20:06:17 GMT
This is just damage control talk from Mark Hamill. Probably encouraged by Disney LucasFilm. His character was horribly written, and it's starting to become obvious that at least half (if not the majority) of the fanbase thinks so. And now it's hard to deny that it's costing them money at the box office and in merchandising. Look at the date on the article. This is just a backsliding attempt at damage control. JUNE 26, 2018? WHAT A WEEK AGO?Here is the original IGN article also dated 6/26/18 The layout i remember hearing in the 80s was the trilogy we got was the middle. The first trilogy would be the empire coming to power/Vader's story. The last trilogy would be rebuilding the original galactic alliance back. Its called hindsight. I had no problem accepting Luke as a hermit. Obi-wan did it. Luke was always doubting himself wasn't he?
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Post by merh on Jul 3, 2018 20:11:19 GMT
The prevailing opinion is that this was not Luke, but Jake Cowmilker, Luke's paralell universe counterpart (Hamil confirmed that). And I don't know about uninteresting or stupid, if I had to chose between Jake's or Adult-Diaper Hans' deaths I would chose the former's. Had more style and flair by vanishing into thin air as Jake should, and he at least achieved a little (or not). How sad. You have no one you love? Han's first instinct is to run. You can see it. Then he remembers what Leia said. It is Leia's fault Han died. He loved her enough to have faithin what she believed. That is hardly stupid. Sad she basically killed him, but not stupid. It completes the love story. My child said the same about Elizabeth in PotC. Every guy she kissed died. Cursed chick.
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Post by merh on Jul 3, 2018 20:17:40 GMT
Seriously I couldn't have imaged a more uninteresting, stupid outcome for the Luke character. That is what they thought up? That? So many Star Wars novels with new adventures for Luke but they came up with a bitter hermit, sucking space cow milk and never leaving the island again?
They should have just left the old characters out and begun the saga 50-100 years after Jedi. The anti-war peace loving hippies gave way to the upwardly mobile yuppies of the 70s to the Reagan lovers of the 80s. Now the boomers love Trump. To hell with everyone else. They want whats best for them. Let the world burn. Luke is that arc. Change the world failed. Cynicism set in as hope faded.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jul 4, 2018 16:45:31 GMT
The prevailing opinion is that this was not Luke, but Jake Cowmilker, Luke's paralell universe counterpart (Hamil confirmed that). And I don't know about uninteresting or stupid, if I had to chose between Jake's or Adult-Diaper Hans' deaths I would chose the former's. Had more style and flair by vanishing into thin air as Jake should, and he at least achieved a little (or not). How sad. You have no one you love? Han's first instinct is to run. You can see it. Then he remembers what Leia said. It is Leia's fault Han died. He loved her enough to have faithin what she believed. That is hardly stupid. Sad she basically killed him, but not stupid. It completes the love story. My child said the same about Elizabeth in PotC. Every guy she kissed died. Cursed chick. Yah, I have loved. Loving means not to run away when the other one is in peril, Han did when his son was seduced by a dark lord, Unlike what he did in the OT films, In Farce Awakens he ran away from his son and his wife To become a merry adult-diaper smuggler in his 70s with a famous name, ship and sidekick must be very helpful with smuggling..not.
Leia and Han's plan was beyond idiotic What was the plan? "Benny, come home to your estranged father, all your genocidal deeds will be forgiven by mommy and I and the Republic? All the emo-problems and fanatism will vanish" That is a suicide plan.
Anyway, Han died like a dumb bitch. Like a plot device. Worse than Luke. That first film's writing was so bad, it stilll makes me puke relentlessly, Don't get me started on EmoRen asking redeemed Vader to protect him from the "light" Worse than Marvel MCU - there, I said it
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shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Jul 4, 2018 18:57:15 GMT
No, his generation isn't a failure. There's always been murder, corruption, theft, rape, etc. in the world. It will always be there as long as humans survive. The only difference is that now with social media, people know every little occurrence that happens in the world. With Twitter culture, this brings a period of constant outrage/suspicion/accusations towards others.
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Post by merh on Jul 4, 2018 22:18:38 GMT
How sad. You have no one you love? Han's first instinct is to run. You can see it. Then he remembers what Leia said. It is Leia's fault Han died. He loved her enough to have faithin what she believed. That is hardly stupid. Sad she basically killed him, but not stupid. It completes the love story. My child said the same about Elizabeth in PotC. Every guy she kissed died. Cursed chick. Yah, I have loved. Loving means not to run away when the other one is in peril, Han did when his son was seduced by a dark lord, Unlike what he did in the OT films, In Farce Awakens he ran away from his son and his wife To become a merry adult-diaper smuggler in his 70s with a famous name, ship and sidekick must be very helpful with smuggling..not.
Leia and Han's plan was beyond idiotic What was the plan? "Benny, come home to your estranged father, all your genocidal deeds will be forgiven by mommy and I and the Republic? All the emo-problems and fanatism will vanish" That is a suicide plan.
Anyway, Han died like a dumb bitch. Like a plot device. Worse than Luke. That first film's writing was so bad, it stilll makes me puke relentlessly, Don't get me started on EmoRen asking redeemed Vader to protect him from the "light" Worse than Marvel MCU - there, I said it
www.slashfilm.comwww.digitalspy.com/movies/star-wars/news/a818249/star-wars-return-of-the-jedi-alternate-ending/So yeah. Lucas contemplated rinse, repeat back with the earlier trilogy.
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Post by merh on Jul 4, 2018 22:20:55 GMT
No, his generation isn't a failure. There's always been murder, corruption, theft, rape, etc. in the world. It will always be there as long as humans survive. The only difference is that now with social media, people know every little occurrence that happens in the world. With Twitter culture, this brings a period of constant outrage/suspicion/accusations towards others. We almost got a different original trilogy
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shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
Posts: 2,514
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Post by shinnickneth on Jul 4, 2018 23:35:16 GMT
We almost got a different original trilogy Yes, Gary Kurtz also had a very crazy/pessimistic view of how the OT should have ended (essentially with Luke Skywalker walking off into the sunset with everyone else dead).
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jul 5, 2018 0:07:11 GMT
Kurtz said the original treatment for ROTJ that he remembered was that Vader and Han Solo die-and Leia becomes leader, it was somewhat negative or bittersweet. Luke heads off to fight the remnants of the Empire, rebuild the Jedi, and seek the Other, before confronting the Emperor in Episode 9. Presumably the Emperor would die.
I think the claims that they originally wanted to have Luke become evil or get super powerful is just more marketing bullshit. They have to come up with some explanation because people are beginning to clue into Hollywood's political shenanigans. Entertainment for them means hit over your head political messages.
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Post by merh on Jul 5, 2018 4:58:55 GMT
Kurtz said the original treatment for ROTJ that he remembered was that Vader and Han Solo die-and Leia becomes leader, it was somewhat negative or bittersweet. Luke heads off to fight the remnants of the Empire, rebuild the Jedi, and seek the Other, before confronting the Emperor in Episode 9. Presumably the Emperor would die. I think the claims that they originally wanted to have Luke become evil or get super powerful is just more marketing bullshit. They have to come up with some explanation because people are beginning to clue into Hollywood's political shenanigans. Entertainment for them means hit over your head political messages. Kasdan says it was rejected so it never went past "what if?" But it makes a circle. And remember Lucas also claimed if he remained in charge the final trilogy would be about the Whills, microworld/dimensional beings that control the Force/feed off it so the Dark Side would likely always be required to exist.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jul 5, 2018 5:13:07 GMT
Kasdan says it was rejected so it never went past "what if?" But it makes a circle. And remember Lucas also claimed if he remained in charge the final trilogy would be about the Whills, microworld/dimensional beings that control the Force/feed off it so the Dark Side would likely always be required to exist. But this is why the audience expectations clash with the filmmakers decisions. Same with Indiana Jones. Marketed as a hero-adventurer in the first film-by the end of the third film he is a figure to mock--deconstructed.
It is a deconstruction of Western protagonist norms.
Luke in comic books and even the release poster was shown as a heroic Prince Valiant/Flash Gordon type--but the movie marketing is one thing, the story itself takes a different turn. Even though they said it was the Hero's Journey, based on old myths, Luke is not a traditional hero. So they used the myth and tradition angle just for marketing or even bait and switch.
Hamill said in 1997 he expected the sequels would have him as an Obi Wan figure passing the torch to someone else. That is traditional. Having him moping on an island and then fighting as a projection before fading away is not.
But the signs of deconstruction were there from the beginning. It just built up over time. Inevitable I think--but they finally lost the audience by such an action reaching its fulfillment, and poorly handled by filmmakers who didn't understand the adventure genre (or did and deliberately set out to be experimentally contrarian).
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