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Post by movieliker on Jun 26, 2018 20:17:30 GMT
(This is based on what I have seen half way through season 5.)
Yes, she is beautiful and has noble intentions. But now through 4 & 1/2 seasons, she is continually a victim of her own naiveté and cluelessness. She keeps making the same dumb mistakes trusting the wrong people.
I know she is young. But she is older than her little sister (Arya). And nowhere near as insightful.
Eventually I lose concern for characters who are repeatedly the victim of their own stupidity.
What do you think?
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Post by Aj_June on Jun 26, 2018 21:37:49 GMT
She keeps repeating her mistakes. Eventually, she will mature though.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Jun 26, 2018 23:05:11 GMT
Just because you make mistakes doesn't make you stupid , arya made her share of mistakes Sansa of all the Starks have been the smartest actually she was able to survive living with the lannisters She could have easily been executed after her father but she was able to survive She was able to survive the boltons , Ramsey , oh and yes her supposed most confident friend "Little finger " when she figured out what he was all about she had him executed she warned Jon not to go to dragonstone she warned him What would happen she warned him about a lot things he didn't listen to her and regretted it I say she is very insightful and smart She may be a slow learner but Tyrion may be right after all she may survive them ALL !
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Post by movieliker on Jun 27, 2018 0:36:28 GMT
Just because you make mistakes doesn't make you stupid , arya made her share of mistakes Sansa of all the Starks have been the smartest actually she was able to survive living with the lannisters She could have easily been executed after her father but she was able to survive She was able to survive the boltons , Ramsey , oh and yes her supposed most confident friend "Little finger " when she figured out what he was all about she had him executed she warned Jon not to go to dragonstone she warned him What would happen she warned him about a lot things he didn't listen to her and regretted it I say she is very insightful and smart She may be a slow learner but Tyrion may be right after all she may survive them ALL ! Well, I haven't gotten that far yet. I am only on season 5. So far, she hasn't learned anything yet. And her survival so far has just been dumb luck.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Jun 27, 2018 11:47:26 GMT
Just because you make mistakes doesn't make you stupid , arya made her share of mistakes Sansa of all the Starks have been the smartest actually she was able to survive living with the lannisters She could have easily been executed after her father but she was able to survive She was able to survive the boltons , Ramsey , oh and yes her supposed most confident friend "Little finger " when she figured out what he was all about she had him executed she warned Jon not to go to dragonstone she warned him What would happen she warned him about a lot things he didn't listen to her and regretted it I say she is very insightful and smart She may be a slow learner but Tyrion may be right after all she may survive them ALL ! Well, I haven't gotten that far yet. I am only on season 5. So far, she hasn't learned anything yet. And her survival so far has just been dumb luck. Dumb luck ? No you have to be strategic when you are being held captive , I guess it looks cooler being all that pulling out knives killing people like her sister does but that is what gets you in more trouble ,Sansa was manipulating them keeping quiet you think she liked when they mocked her family at joffreys wedding? or when she found out her family was murdered? I think not and would be easy to lash out would have ended up with her being beheaded Sansa was victim of circumanstnces and trusted wrong people number one being little finger but everything she went through made her wiser and stronger and she learned a great deal from cersei that's not a bad thing.
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Seto
Sophomore
@seto
Posts: 315
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Post by Seto on Jun 27, 2018 15:28:27 GMT
Movieliker, what mistakes are you referring to exactly?? If my memory serves me correctly through the first four and a half seasons she has almost zero control over everything that happens to her, the one exception is perhaps when she testifies to Littlefinger's defence in the Vale after Littlefinger kills Lysa. Which I wouldn't really call a mistake considering Littlefinger had already saved her twice at this point.
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shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Jun 27, 2018 15:30:41 GMT
Dumb luck ? No you have to be strategic when you are being held captive , I guess it looks cooler being all that pulling out knives killing people like her sister does but that is what gets you in more trouble ,Sansa was manipulating them keeping quiet you think she liked when they mocked her family at joffreys wedding? or when she found out her family was murdered? I think not and would be easy to lash out would have ended up with her being beheaded Sansa was victim of circumanstnces and trusted wrong people number one being little finger but everything she went through made her wiser and stronger and she learned a great deal from cersei that's not a bad thing. Jonsa, you're arguing with someone who hasn't watched all the seasons yet. Best just to let the OP get caught up first.
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Post by movieliker on Jun 27, 2018 16:41:54 GMT
Well, I haven't gotten that far yet. I am only on season 5. So far, she hasn't learned anything yet. And her survival so far has just been dumb luck. Dumb luck ? No you have to be strategic when you are being held captive , I guess it looks cooler being all that pulling out knives killing people like her sister does but that is what gets you in more trouble ,Sansa was manipulating them keeping quiet you think she liked when they mocked her family at joffreys wedding? or when she found out her family was murdered? I think not and would be easy to lash out would have ended up with her being beheaded Sansa was victim of circumanstnces and trusted wrong people number one being little finger but everything she went through made her wiser and stronger and she learned a great deal from cersei that's not a bad thing. I don't see what is so strategic about keeping one's mouth closed. Could be she was just afraid --- or too stupid --- to say anything. It was dumb for her to argue so vehemently to be King Joffrey's wife, "I love him with all my heart. We will be married and I will be his queen." Remember when she told her mother and sister that? She was dedicated to that murderous psychopath and his family before she even knew which either was about.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Jun 28, 2018 14:55:10 GMT
Dumb luck ? No you have to be strategic when you are being held captive , I guess it looks cooler being all that pulling out knives killing people like her sister does but that is what gets you in more trouble ,Sansa was manipulating them keeping quiet you think she liked when they mocked her family at joffreys wedding? or when she found out her family was murdered? I think not and would be easy to lash out would have ended up with her being beheaded Sansa was victim of circumanstnces and trusted wrong people number one being little finger but everything she went through made her wiser and stronger and she learned a great deal from cersei that's not a bad thing. I don't see what is so strategic about keeping one's mouth closed. Could be she was just afraid --- or too stupid --- to say anything. It was dumb for her to argue so vehemently to be King Joffrey's wife, "I love him with all my heart. We will be married and I will be his queen." Remember when she told her mother and sister that? She was dedicated to that murderous psychopath and his family before she even knew which either was about. She was 13 and she didn't even know Joffrey was as bad as he turned out to be, Sansa believed in heroes songs and love not beheadings and killings yes Joffrey turned out to be a nightmare even to his own mothers surprise but how can you fault Sansa for wanting to marry Joffrey when she knew nothing what he was really like ? and let's not forget she was only 13 !! Being naive and innocent doesn't make you dumb . If you don't think it's strategic keeping your mouth shut just look what happened to Ned and Rob stark they would still have their heads if they kept theirs shut , Sansa was smarter than her father and brother .
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Post by Aj_June on Jun 28, 2018 15:02:59 GMT
Movieliker, what mistakes are you referring to exactly?? If my memory serves me correctly through the first four and a half seasons she has almost zero control over everything that happens to her, the one exception is perhaps when she testifies to Littlefinger's defence in the Vale after Littlefinger kills Lysa. Which I wouldn't really call a mistake considering Littlefinger had already saved her twice at this point. I think the main mistake that she committed was that she went on to spill her father's plan to Cersei (That he was going to send her & Arya to Winterfell).
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jun 28, 2018 15:09:34 GMT
Movieliker, what mistakes are you referring to exactly?? If my memory serves me correctly through the first four and a half seasons she has almost zero control over everything that happens to her, the one exception is perhaps when she testifies to Littlefinger's defence in the Vale after Littlefinger kills Lysa. Which I wouldn't really call a mistake considering Littlefinger had already saved her twice at this point. I think the main mistake that she committed was that she went on to spill her father's plan to Cersei (That he was going to send her & Arya to Winterfell). Ned had told Cersei what he knew and what he intended to do. How could that information from Sansa have made any sort of difference? The plan was set to unroll the moment Robert died, no matter what Ned planned or what Cersei knew about it. The stupidity of some people has no limits.
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Post by Aj_June on Jun 28, 2018 15:11:32 GMT
I think the main mistake that she committed was that she went on to spill her father's plan to Cersei (That he was going to send her & Arya to Winterfell). Ned had told Cersei what he knew and what he intended to do. How could that information from Sansa have made any sort of difference? The plan was set to unroll the moment Robert died, no matter what Ned planned or what Cersei knew about it. The stupidity of some people has no limits. The plan was to send both of them by stealth at night. By disclosing the plan Sansa made it impossible to execute that.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jun 28, 2018 15:16:50 GMT
Ned had told Cersei what he knew and what he intended to do. How could that information from Sansa have made any sort of difference? The plan was set to unroll the moment Robert died, no matter what Ned planned or what Cersei knew about it. The stupidity of some people has no limits. The plan was to send both of them by stealth at night. By disclosing the plan Sansa made it impossible to execute that. Not in the show and they wouldn't have gone far anyway.
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Post by Aj_June on Jun 28, 2018 15:24:46 GMT
The plan was to send both of them by stealth at night. By disclosing the plan Sansa made it impossible to execute that. Not in the show and they wouldn't have gone far anyway. To be honest most of the things I say is related to books because I have done a far more serious study of books. I will probably watch the whole show again soon. That said the plan was to send them not through road.
“I am looking for a fast trading galley to take you home. These days, the sea is safer than the kingsroad."
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Post by movieliker on Jun 28, 2018 16:10:14 GMT
I don't see what is so strategic about keeping one's mouth closed. Could be she was just afraid --- or too stupid --- to say anything. It was dumb for her to argue so vehemently to be King Joffrey's wife, "I love him with all my heart. We will be married and I will be his queen." Remember when she told her mother and sister that? She was dedicated to that murderous psychopath and his family before she even knew which either was about. She was 13 and she didn't even know Joffrey was as bad as he turned out to be, Sansa believed in heroes songs and love not beheadings and killings yes Joffrey turned out to be a nightmare even to his own mothers surprise but how can you fault Sansa for wanting to marry Joffrey when she knew nothing what he was really like ? and let's not forget she was only 13 !! Being naive and innocent doesn't make you dumb . If you don't think it's strategic keeping your mouth shut just look what happened to Ned and Rob stark they would still have their heads if they kept theirs shut, Sansa was smarter than her father and brother . I am not saying it is not understandable or unrealistic that Sansa would be stupid and naive. Yes, many young teenagers are so. I am just pointing out that she is. And I never read the book. But in the show, she is not portrayed as being savvy and slyly deciding to keep her mouth shut. She is portrayed as keeping her mouth closed because she has no clue what to say or do. And what is worse, she so far (I am only on season 5) never learns. She keeps trusting the wrong people and making the same mistakes. By far the least discriminating of all the characters (with the exception of maybe King Joffrey's replacement). By contrast, her little sister is much more discriminating. And able to quickly get a bead on people and not put herself in foolish situations due to ignorance and naiveté. If you like Sansa, she has many attractive qualities. But shrewdness is not one of them. As a matter of fact, her inability to ever catch on is painfully and annoyingly obvious. If in later episodes she ends up in winning situations, it will be by dumb luck. Unless she all of a sudden has an epiphany and realizes, "Most people in Westeros are untrustworthy, selfish, vengeful, immoral, backstabbing and unjust." This is something we all shockingly realized almost from the beginning. And with the exception of Sansa's little sister, is largely to blame for the demise of the Stark family. Maybe blind cluelessness is a Stark family trait.
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Post by movieliker on Jun 28, 2018 16:11:44 GMT
I think the main mistake that she committed was that she went on to spill her father's plan to Cersei (That he was going to send her & Arya to Winterfell). Ned had told Cersei what he knew and what he intended to do. How could that information from Sansa have made any sort of difference? The plan was set to unroll the moment Robert died, no matter what Ned planned or what Cersei knew about it. The stupidity of some people has no limits. What is your problem dude? Just because most people don't agree with you, you get angry and start calling names and hurling insults? You need to grow up.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jun 28, 2018 16:20:07 GMT
Not in the show and they wouldn't have gone far anyway. To be honest most of the things I say is related to books because I have done a far more serious study of books. I will probably watch the whole show again soon. That said the plan was to send them not through road.
“I am looking for a fast trading galley to take you home. These days, the sea is safer than the kingsroad."
And none of it if of any interest to show watchers who want to discuss what they see.
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Post by Aj_June on Jun 28, 2018 16:50:53 GMT
To be honest most of the things I say is related to books because I have done a far more serious study of books. I will probably watch the whole show again soon. That said the plan was to send them not through road.
“I am looking for a fast trading galley to take you home. These days, the sea is safer than the kingsroad."
And none of it if of any interest to show watchers who want to discuss what they see. Seto has made references to the books 2 or 3 times that I can recall. Some people are interested in books (I, merv, seto, cooljgs & nightman & may even be shinnickneth that I can recall on this board).
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Post by movieliker on Jun 28, 2018 16:53:59 GMT
To be honest most of the things I say is related to books because I have done a far more serious study of books. I will probably watch the whole show again soon. That said the plan was to send them not through road.
“I am looking for a fast trading galley to take you home. These days, the sea is safer than the kingsroad."
And none of it if of any interest to show watchers who want to discuss what they see. No, I find the books an interesting source of additional information.
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Post by movieliker on Jun 28, 2018 16:54:29 GMT
And none of it if of any interest to show watchers who want to discuss what they see. Seto has made references to the books 2 or 3 times that I can recall. Some people are interested in books (I, merv, seto, cooljgs & nightman & may even be shinnickneth that I can recall on this board). I am interested also.
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