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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 20:16:46 GMT
In the 1980s Disney was losing steam. It wasnt 'cool' anymore. The brand was 'kiddie' and their animated films we're becoming lazy.
Don Bluth left Disney and made 'The Secret of NIMH'. Then he went on to destroy Disney with 'The Land Before Time' and 'American Tail'.
We all know this kicked Disney in the butt and they were forced to try harder.
What IF?!!! Disney continued to be lazy? After 'All Dogs Go To Heaven' Don Bluth signed a contract with FOX family. They were motivated to compete with Disney. Let's say he makes good films instead of pebble and the penguin, a troll in Central Park and so on...
PIXAR was a separate company. If FOX had been on top and PIXAR partnered with them or DreamWorks instead of a failing Disney... How would that have changed Hollywood?
Disney's live action films were also garbage in the 1980s. The Little Mermaid and Lion King saved Disney. The Renaissance was the pivot. Now they own Star Wars, Marvel, and PIXAR...
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Post by TutuAnimationPrincess on Jun 30, 2018 20:35:32 GMT
Ah yes, another topic that over rates Don Bluths career and his impact on Disney. Let me just set everything straight here.
In regards to 80s Disney, the Black Cauldron was the only true big blow. It did almost cause Disney to shut down it's animation studio, but they mostly did fine after that.
The film that revived Disney was actually Who Framed Roger Rabbit. It was a massive success and showcased a public interest in a animation never seen before. Without Roger Rabbit money, The Little Mermaid isn't made, at least not with near the budget.
In regards to Don Bluths, his career was almost over before it began. The Secret of NIMH bombed and forced him to shut down the studio he founded. It was only thanks to the backing and pubiliciy of Steven Spielberg that An American Tail and Land Before Time became the big hits they were. Ironically enough, Spielberg was quite instrumental in helping the Roger Rabbit project become what it was as well. Of course, once Disney got it's footing again, neither could compete.
So to answer the original question, realistically, we'll never know. Don Bluths mediocre to awful 90s output makes me question how good he was and what kind of success he was capable of maintaining. Pixar was owned by Steve Jobs, who knows what studio he what have turned to for distribution if he was not confident in Disney but I'm sure he'd have the pick of the litter. As interesting as hypotheticals are, there are too many variants to come to any concrete conclusion and it hardly matters anyway. I do think mainstream animation may have turned out a lot differently in this scenario but in what way I can not say.
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Post by Archelaus on Jun 30, 2018 20:37:56 GMT
If Disney continued to push out mediocre animated films into the 1990s that became financial failures, they would have to make some massive lay-offs. Revenue from the home video releases of their animated classics would help keep their animation department alive, but if there's no new money coming in, then, they would have to close down.
The Pixar films would probably be different from how we know them today. It was Jeffrey Katzenberg who told John Lasseter to make Toy Story a "buddy film", but if Disney hadn't partnered with Pixar, who knows what would happen.
I'm not sure if DreamWorks Animation would exist since Disney's animation renaissance gave Katzenberg leverage to try to get Frank G. Wells's position as president, and when denied, he left. However, I can see a scenario in which Katzenberg is blamed for the failure of the animated features and forced to resign. He then could partner with Steven Spielberg and David Geffen to found DreamWorks SKG.
Finally, if Don Bluth had continued success with 20th Century Fox, I think in time, computer-animated films (if they were any good) would beat his films at the box office.
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Post by johnspartan on Jun 30, 2018 20:48:32 GMT
Bluth's animation was superb, but his storytelling was weak and was no match for Disney storytelling. The best things Bluth ever did were the "Dragon's Lair" and "Space Ace" video games. Hopefully the Dragon's Lair movie will actually happen and finally be a hit for him.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 30, 2018 21:00:11 GMT
Disney was bought out by folks with unlimited funds. Nothing saved Disney-once they were bought out, their money troubles were over. In fact, Michael Eisner said while Oliver and Co. was in production that they had to make animated films because it was the company legacy but he sounded very unenthusiastic. I think the Little Mermaid is what got Disney its revival PR, Roger Rabbit was a Spielberg-Zemeckis film under the Touchstone label of Disney (since they originally wanted to separate the brand associations---now they dont care). The media was harping how Disney was back with the Little Mermaid. Some of the animation in that is badly rotoscoped. I wonder what Roy Disney Jr's feelings were--his pet project was Fantasia 2000. I got the impression he was wrestled out of the executive board eventually. But yeah I dont think Bluth could have revived Disney. The company was mostly due to Walt Disney. Once he was dead, it just couldnt maintain itself.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 21:06:21 GMT
Ah yes, another topic that over rates Don Bluths career and his impact on Disney. Let me just set everything straight here. In regards to 80s Disney, the Black Cauldron was the only true big blow. It did almost cause Disney to shut down it's animation studio, but they mostly did fine after that. The film that revived Disney was actually Who Framed Roger Rabbit. It was a massive success and showcased a public interest in a animation never seen before. Without Roger Rabbit money, The Little Mermaid isn't made, at least not with near the budget. In regards to Don Bluths, his career was almost over before it began. The Secret of NIMH bombed and forced him to shut down the studio he founded. It was only thanks to the backing and pubiliciy of Steven Spielberg that An American Tail and Land Before Time became the big hits they were. Ironically enough, Spielberg was quite instrumental in helping the Roger Rabbit project become what it was as well. Of course, once Disney got it's footing again, neither could compete. So to answer the original question, realistically, we'll never know. Don Bluths mediocre to awful 90s output makes me question how good he was and what kind of success he was capayof maintaining. Pixar was owned by Steve Jobs, who knows what studio he what have turned to for distribution if he was confident in Disney but I'm sure he'd have the pick of the litter. As interesting as hypotheticals are, there are too many variants to come to any concrete conclusion and it hardly matters anyway. I do think mainstream animation may have turned out a lot differently in this scenario but in what way I can not say. You cannot deny how lame Disney was in the 1980s. It was about as cool as Barney the Dinosaur to kids. I remember Universal Studios and Nickelodeon being awesome in the early 90s. TMNT, Batman, Looney Tunes, everything was more popular. It wasn't until Aladdin, Lion King, and Toy Story that Disney was cool again. The Park was even lame when I was a kid. I remember saying "I want to go to Universal (at age 7) the prime age Disney gets kids. If I had told my 1st grade buddies I was going to Disney, they would have laughed at me. It was vulnerable for sure. |
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Post by twothousandonemark on Jun 30, 2018 21:16:26 GMT
Reminds me of Nintendo vs Sega.
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Post by johnspartan on Jun 30, 2018 22:02:29 GMT
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Post by TutuAnimationPrincess on Jul 1, 2018 0:18:11 GMT
Ah yes, another topic that over rates Don Bluths career and his impact on Disney. Let me just set everything straight here. In regards to 80s Disney, the Black Cauldron was the only true big blow. It did almost cause Disney to shut down it's animation studio, but they mostly did fine after that. The film that revived Disney was actually Who Framed Roger Rabbit. It was a massive success and showcased a public interest in a animation never seen before. Without Roger Rabbit money, The Little Mermaid isn't made, at least not with near the budget. In regards to Don Bluths, his career was almost over before it began. The Secret of NIMH bombed and forced him to shut down the studio he founded. It was only thanks to the backing and pubiliciy of Steven Spielberg that An American Tail and Land Before Time became the big hits they were. Ironically enough, Spielberg was quite instrumental in helping the Roger Rabbit project become what it was as well. Of course, once Disney got it's footing again, neither could compete. So to answer the original question, realistically, we'll never know. Don Bluths mediocre to awful 90s output makes me question how good he was and what kind of success he was capayof maintaining. Pixar was owned by Steve Jobs, who knows what studio he what have turned to for distribution if he was confident in Disney but I'm sure he'd have the pick of the litter. As interesting as hypotheticals are, there are too many variants to come to any concrete conclusion and it hardly matters anyway. I do think mainstream animation may have turned out a lot differently in this scenario but in what way I can not say. You cannot deny how lame Disney was in the 1980s. It was about as cool as Barney the Dinosaur to kids. I remember Universal Studios and Nickelodeon being awesome in the early 90s. TMNT, Batman, Looney Tunes, everything was more popular. It wasn't until Aladdin, Lion King, and Toy Story that Disney was cool again. The Park was even lame when I was a kid. I remember saying "I want to go to Universal (at age 7) the prime age Disney gets kids. If I had told my 1st grade buddies I was going to Disney, they would have laughed at me. It was vulnerable for sure. I can deny it plenty, not only was Roger Rabbit a huge hit but The Great Mouse Detective was a decent hit in it's own right now. As far as theme parks go, that's a different argument entirely. I will say that both Disney and Universal have been quite impressive for a while, each showcasing different strengths. |
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