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Post by PreachCaleb on Jul 2, 2018 20:59:49 GMT
Like statues of Confederate heroes to remind blacks they were once slaves? That is different. In that case the statues were meant to commemorate the family members who died. It was not intended as liberal propaganda. It may be considered conservative propaganda but that depends on the intention in the original creation.
That's a lie. They were intended to oppress the black populace. "Bad, conservatives. Bad. No treat for you." |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jul 2, 2018 21:03:12 GMT
Only if they hated black people fighting for their freedom. Now that’s rather in bad faith. How about if they hated that 750,000 Americans, black and white, would die in a ravaging civil war? That the North fought for a noble cause does not reduce the terribleness of a terrible conflict, and your implication does your argument no justice. But if you don’t like my analogy, substitute one of your own. The point stands. White Americans died in the Revolutionary War for their freedom. Why wasn't that worse? Why was it worse when black people fought for their freedom? The point does not stand because it's predicated on thinking the fight for racial freedom is some low point from a white perspective. How about the former slaves who saw it as improvement? |
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Post by Salzmank on Jul 2, 2018 21:15:24 GMT
Now that’s rather in bad faith. How about if they hated that 750,000 Americans, black and white, would die in a ravaging civil war? That the North fought for a noble cause does not reduce the terribleness of a terrible conflict, and your implication does your argument no justice. But if you don’t like my analogy, substitute one of your own. The point stands. White Americans died in the Revolutionary War for their freedom. Why wasn't that worse? Why was it worse when black people fought for their freedom? The point does not stand because it's predicated on thinking the fight for racial freedom is some low point from a white perspective. How about the former slaves who saw it as improvement? Of course the Revolutionary War, as a war, was terrible. War is. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t in a noble cause, any more than it means that the North didn’t fight the Civil War for a noble cause. Many of the delegates to Congress wanted negotiation with the King before going to full blown armed conflict. My friend, we could do this all day. We’re getting far afield, and my point is getting lost in the argument about the analogy. I continue to hold that the Civil War, with its mass bloodshed and destruction, was terrible. You don’t. Fine. Go ahead and think that. I’m trying to have a rational conversation, and as usual (we’ve done this before) you’re imputing motives to me that simply don’t exist. As ever, I hope that you’ll consider, especially in light of my second post in this thread, that taking personal umbrage at everything someone else with an opposing viewpoint thinks will not benefit anyone, least of all yourself. Respectfully, but (I believe) necessarily, I’m out. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jul 2, 2018 21:21:05 GMT
White Americans died in the Revolutionary War for their freedom. Why wasn't that worse? Why was it worse when black people fought for their freedom? The point does not stand because it's predicated on thinking the fight for racial freedom is some low point from a white perspective. How about the former slaves who saw it as improvement? Of course the Revolutionary War, as a war, was terrible. War is. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t in a noble cause, any more than it means that the North didn’t fight the Civil War for a noble cause. Many of the delegates to Congress wanted negotiation with the King before going to full blown armed conflict. My friend, we could do this all day. We’re getting far afield, and my point is getting lost in the argument about the analogy. I continue to hold that the Civil War, with its mass bloodshed and destruction, was terrible. You don’t. Fine. Go ahead and think that. I’m trying to have a rational conversation, and as usual (we’ve done this before)As ever, I hope that you’ll reconsider, especially in light of my second post in this thread, that taking personal umbrage at everything someone else with an opposing viewpoint thinks will not benefit anyone, least of all yourself. Incorrect. Please point where I said it wasn't.
Hello, pot, I'm the kettle.
I bid thee fond fair well. |
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Post by deembastille on Jul 2, 2018 21:23:34 GMT
I think we can all say the civil war was a big embarrassing fart in our nation's and world history.
THE MAIN POINT: is that society today is trying to hold HISTORICAL PEOPLE accountable for TODAYS VALUES.
however shitty those values are.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jul 2, 2018 21:29:16 GMT
That's a lie. They were intended to oppress the black populace. "Bad, conservatives. Bad. No treat for you." You need to have your meds checked if you believe it was meant as a message for blacks. Paranoid.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jul 2, 2018 21:34:59 GMT
I think we can all say the civil war was a big embarrassing fart in our nation's and world history. THE MAIN POINT: is that society today is trying to hold HISTORICAL PEOPLE accountable for TODAYS VALUES. however shitty those values are. Nah, her depiction of Native Americans was ridiculous even at the time she wrote her books. Besides, no one's holding her accountable. Her books aren't being banned. But the Association for Library Service to Children is holding itself accountable by not having an award honoring someone who wrote clearly racist stereotypes. Anti-racism is not a shitty value. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jul 2, 2018 21:35:23 GMT
That's a lie. They were intended to oppress the black populace. "Bad, conservatives. Bad. No treat for you." You need to have your meds checked if you believe it was meant as a message for blacks. Paranoid.
Stop defending racism. |
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Post by deembastille on Jul 2, 2018 21:35:27 GMT
That is different. In that case the statues were meant to commemorate the family members who died. It was not intended as liberal propaganda. It may be considered conservative propaganda but that depends on the intention in the original creation.
That's a lie. They were intended to oppress the black populace. "Bad, conservatives. Bad. No treat for you." I don't think blacks need a reminder they were once slaves. they remind me every day. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jul 2, 2018 21:36:53 GMT
That's a lie. They were intended to oppress the black populace. "Bad, conservatives. Bad. No treat for you." I don't think blacks need a reminder they were once slaves. they remind me every day. Well, it's white people's fault for never letting them forget. Can't have it both ways. Shove it in their faces and then complain when they can't get over it. |
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Post by deembastille on Jul 2, 2018 21:41:57 GMT
I think we can all say the civil war was a big embarrassing fart in our nation's and world history. THE MAIN POINT: is that society today is trying to hold HISTORICAL PEOPLE accountable for TODAYS VALUES. however shitty those values are. Nah, her depiction of Native Americans was ridiculous even at the time she wrote her books. Besides, no one's holding her accountable. Her books aren't being banned. But the Association for Library Service to Children is holding itself accountable by not having an award honoring someone who wrote clearly racist stereotypes. Anti-racism is not a shitty value. were those her values or what was ingrained in her brain due to her parents. it wasn't racism back then. people were wary of other cultures because of personal interactions. they had bad interactions with many American Indian tribes due to the unfortunateness of 'bad information' received from the government. people in the 50s were still wary blacks and for kind of good cause. they WERE SCARY BACK THEN. the only ones out and about were up to no good! how are the good blacks supposed to bounce back and show their integrity/positivity of a culture and people if the unfortunates at causing all that shit? where are the black people of today apologizing to us for scaring OUR ANCESTORS? WHERE IS THAT? the black people of today don't see how their ancestors had a hand in their ancestors unfair treatment. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jul 2, 2018 21:45:51 GMT
Nah, her depiction of Native Americans was ridiculous even at the time she wrote her books. Besides, no one's holding her accountable. Her books aren't being banned. But the Association for Library Service to Children is holding itself accountable by not having an award honoring someone who wrote clearly racist stereotypes. Anti-racism is not a shitty value. were those her values or what was ingrained in her brain due to her parents. it wasn't racism back then. people were wary of other cultures because of personal interactions. they had bad interactions with many American Indian tribes due to the unfortunateness of 'bad information' received from the government. people in the 50s were still wary blacks and for kind of good cause. they WERE SCARY BACK THEN. the only ones out and about were up to no good! how are the good blacks supposed to bounce back and show their integrity/positivity of a culture and people if the unfortunates at causing all that shit? where are the black people of today apologizing to us for scaring OUR ANCESTORS? WHERE IS THAT? the black people of today don't see how their ancestors had a hand in their ancestors unfair treatment. Stop defending racism. It's crass and so unbecoming in 2018. |
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Post by deembastille on Jul 2, 2018 21:48:21 GMT
were those her values or what was ingrained in her brain due to her parents. it wasn't racism back then. people were wary of other cultures because of personal interactions. they had bad interactions with many American Indian tribes due to the unfortunateness of 'bad information' received from the government. people in the 50s were still wary blacks and for kind of good cause. they WERE SCARY BACK THEN. the only ones out and about were up to no good! how are the good blacks supposed to bounce back and show their integrity/positivity of a culture and people if the unfortunates at causing all that shit? where are the black people of today apologizing to us for scaring OUR ANCESTORS? WHERE IS THAT? the black people of today don't see how their ancestors had a hand in their ancestors unfair treatment. Stop defending racism. It's crass and so unbecoming in 2018. you are talking about history. the best we can do is learn from it. we cant condemn historical figures for not thinking how we think now. that is unbecoming as an intelligent person. |
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jul 2, 2018 21:51:01 GMT
You honestly believe that a statue of a dead Confederate soldier had nothing to do with service to the state or army or country?
The only way your claim could be valid is if the statue inscription says: "slavery is great" or "MLK Jr sucks."
But then you are the one who equates Scooby Doo with the Iliad so never mind.
Zoinks!
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jul 2, 2018 21:52:11 GMT
Stop defending racism. It's crass and so unbecoming in 2018. you are talking about history. the best we can do is learn from it. we cant condemn historical figures for not thinking how we think now. that is unbecoming as an intelligent person. We're not going to honor racists either, nor defend them. And yes, we most definitely can condemn them. Slave owners were despicable people. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jul 2, 2018 21:54:48 GMT
You honestly believe that a statue of a dead Confederate soldier had nothing to do with service to the state or army or country?
The only way your claim could be valid is if the statue inscription says: "slavery is great" or "MLK Jr sucks."
But then you are the one who equates Scooby Doo with the Iliad so never mind.
Zoinks!
Nope, they were traitors to the state and country. We do not honor traitors. And my claim is valid because that is literally why those statues were erected. Seriously, stop defending racism. You can't win. The racists always lose. History has proven so. Jinkees! |
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jul 2, 2018 22:04:22 GMT
Nope, they were traitors to the state and country. We do not honor traitors. And my claim is valid because that is literally why those statues were erected. I didnt realize there were so many talented racist sculptors! Funny how they are better at naturalistic representational portraiture than Obama's favorite artist. I guess depicting Nature is racist too.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jul 2, 2018 23:23:55 GMT
A certain false equivalency if what I think the video is about. Its about an award, the name of the award is being changed. As for the author involved, whose books were written in a specific time and place, no one has decided to put a ban on those books. The books weren't banned, the author was stripped of an award because butthurt snowflake people are holding her accountable for today's standards of social justice and PS shit. Yes, they just can't associate themselves anymore with half pint, because her facade was phony and she was really a wicked evil racist. The classic children's literature she wrote was in reality odious propaganda. How dare she reminisce of the era she was brought up in and entertain people. 
I don't own the books, but I have a good mind to go to some second hand book stores and try to obtain them. In fact, I hope all of this actually has the opposite effect and makes her stories popular again. Who is next, Lucy Maud Montgomery, for Anne Of Green Gables?
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Post by deembastille on Jul 2, 2018 23:33:00 GMT
The books weren't banned, the author was stripped of an award because butthurt snowflake people are holding her accountable for today's standards of social justice and PS shit. Yes, they just can't associate themselves anymore with half pint, because her facade was phony and she was really a wicked evil racist. The classic children's literature she wrote was in reality odious propaganda. How dare she reminisce of the era she was brought up in and entertain people. I don't own the books, but I have a good mind to go to some second hand book stores and try to obtain them. In fact, I hope all of this actually has the opposite effect and makes her stories popular again. Who is next, Lucy Maud Montgomery, for Anne Of Green Gables?
but he was a german jew..... |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Jul 2, 2018 23:33:53 GMT
What an insult to Laura Ingalls Wilder, who is a US literary national treasure and an essential part and slice of preserving the era of pioneering Americana.
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