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Post by NJtoTX on Mar 19, 2017 20:56:38 GMT
Poll: Greatest coach/manager
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Mar 19, 2017 21:01:37 GMT
Ernie Pantuso
Albania, Al-ban-ia, you border on the Ad-ria-atic...
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Mar 19, 2017 21:13:04 GMT
To be serious, its a tough question. Take John Wooden, for example. Undoubtedly, a great coach. But UCLA had the best players, year after year. They used to say that Wooden's bench could have made the Final Four. Connie Mack had some on the best teams in baseball history and some of the worst. Bear Bryant was a God at Alabama, nothing special before that. I'll have to reflect on it
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Post by movielover on Mar 19, 2017 21:23:32 GMT
Bill Belichick and Bobby Knight
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 20, 2017 0:45:44 GMT
To be serious, its a tough question. Take John Wooden, for example. Undoubtedly, a great coach. But UCLA had the best players, year after year. They used to say that Wooden's bench could have made the Final Four. Connie Mack had some on the best teams in baseball history and some of the worst. Bear Bryant was a God at Alabama, nothing special before that. I'll have to reflect on it Well, for pro sports, it has to be Phil Jackson. 11 championships.
The knock against Jackson is that he had great players, like Jordan, Shaq, and Kobe. But plenty of other coaches have had great players. Auberach had Bill Russell, Riley had Magic and Kareem, Poppovich had Duncan, and Walsh had Montana (the greatest QB ever).
But for all coaches, I have to go with John Wooden. Winning 7 straight championships and 10 championships in 12 years in the college game where players can't stay for more than 3 years (Freshman weren't allowed to play on the varsity team back when Wooden was coaching) and you have to keep doing it with new players every 3 years or so is much harder than sustaining that in pro sports.
During those 7 straight championship seasons, Wooden and UCLA won 38 straight NCAA Tournament games. That's 38 straight do-or-die, win-or-go-home elimination games. That's pretty incredible.
Sure, Wooden had great players like Alcindor and Walton. But recruiting good players is part of the job of a college coach. And it's not like college has a draft, where the worst teams get to draft first so you may be able to draft a star player before anyone else has a chance to. In the college game, all coaches can go and recruit the same players so all coaches have the same access to star players. Wooden just did a better job of recruiting the star players that everyone wanted.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 9:30:32 GMT
It has to be "old big head", Brian Clough. "I'm not sure if I'm greatest manager of all time, but I'd say I'm in the top one"
He took a small club called Derby County, from the brink of relegation in division two, won them promotion, then won the division one title (now know as the Premier League). Then to prove that wasn't a fluke, he did EXACTLY the same thing with Nottingham Forest, but then went one step further, and won them BACK TO BACK European Cups!!! No one has ever done that before with two different small clubs like Derby and Forest, and no one will ever do that again. It is impossible, but he did it.
I'd highly recommend the film "The Damned United" to any sports fans, in fact you don't even need to be a sport's fan to enjoy this one. And there are a ton of documentaries about Cloughie too. Not only was he a great manager, but he was funny too, really funny, and was behind many of the great quotes you hear in sports.
In tribute to the late great Brian Clough here is a short excerpt from one of his documentaries.
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Post by shadyvsesham on Mar 20, 2017 10:23:48 GMT
I was torn between two.
F Phil Jackson, seriously, he is showing how over-rated he is with the Knicks.
Bill or Pop is who it comes too.
Bellicheck wins.
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Post by NewtJorden on Mar 20, 2017 15:21:22 GMT
Vince Lombardi
Phil Jackson
Scotty Bowman
4th vote would go to Paul Brown
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Post by NJtoTX on Mar 20, 2017 15:46:17 GMT
Vince Lombardi Phil Jackson Scotty Bowman 4th vote would go to Paul Brown Damn, forgot Paul Brown |
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Post by movielover on Mar 20, 2017 15:51:25 GMT
Vince Lombardi Phil Jackson Scotty Bowman 4th vote would go to Paul Brown Damn, forgot Paul Brown Didn't you also forget Bill Parcells? |
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Post by NJtoTX on Mar 20, 2017 16:14:39 GMT
Didn't you also forget Bill Parcells? Good point. Was trying to keep the list length down while including about the same number from each sport. Don't know enough about soccerfootball or rugby or cricket to include them. |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Mar 20, 2017 16:29:28 GMT
I might have to go with Casey Stengel. Of course, Stengel wasn't very successful with the Dodgers, Braves and Mets, but he wasn't in charge of bringing in players. And common perception says that the Yanks had so much talent than a Chimp could have won pennants in the Bronx. But Casey's teams had just three superstars (Yogi, Mickey and Whitey), a handful of good players (Billy Martin, Ellie Howard, Moose Skowron). But much of his teams were platoon players, fading vets and role players. Look at his rotation, past Ford. Not only did he get fine seasons out of mediocrity like Tome Sturidvant Bob Turley, Bob Grim, he got good mileage out of over the hill arms like Eddie Lopat and John Sain. Most importantly, he was big in the development (I know he didn't invent it) of platooning and the modern bullpen. My only minus is than Charles Dillon accomplished this against a pathetic American League. There was the Yanks, two contenders Red Sox and Indians with the White Sox replacing the Red Sox, and then crap. The Yanks were successful because Casey beat the Senators, A's, Browns/Orioles more consistently than the competition.
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Post by hoskotafe3 on Mar 20, 2017 22:43:18 GMT
Wouldn't worry about cricket coaches. At elite end not much to choose between them. Trick is to make sure you don't get a bad one.
Wayne Bennett from Rugby League (6 premierships with two different teams in quite possibly the hardest sporting league in the world to string multiple seasons together) and Alistair Clarkson from the AFL (secured a 3-peat with a team that wasn't particularly startling) are two modern Australian ones.
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Post by drspaceman on Mar 21, 2017 0:40:17 GMT
How is it that Quenville makes this list but Mike Babcock doesn't?
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Post by DeVaughn on Mar 21, 2017 1:04:08 GMT
Belicheat Belichick.
No brainer.
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Post by NJtoTX on Mar 21, 2017 1:10:16 GMT
How is it that Quenville makes this list but Mike Babcock doesn't? Babcock 1 Cup win to 3, lower point percentage both regular season and playoffs |
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Post by drspaceman on Mar 21, 2017 1:23:02 GMT
How is it that Quenville makes this list but Mike Babcock doesn't? Babcock 1 Cup win to 3, lower point percentage both regular season and playoffs Babcock's an integral part of Canada's Olympic dominance and he's won a WJC and a World Cup as well. You can't really use points percentage considering that Chicago's been running a dynasty roster since 2009 and Babcock's extended Detroit's playoff streak with guys like Dekeyser and Brendan Smith playing big minutes. |
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Post by NJtoTX on Mar 21, 2017 1:28:31 GMT
Babcock 1 Cup win to 3, lower point percentage both regular season and playoffs Babcock's an integral part of Canada's Olympic dominance and he's won a WJC and a World Cup as well. You can't really use points percentage considering that Chicago's been running a dynasty roster since 2009 and Babcock's extended Detroit's playoff streak with guys like Dekeyser and Brendan Smith playing big minutes. I suppose I could also have included Anatoli Tarasov. |
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Post by muttonbuster on Mar 21, 2017 1:49:14 GMT
I realize NFL coaches don't move around as much, but the biggest metric of a great coach is that
they can coach teams to championships with multiple organizations working with completely different
management who may be assembling teams with players they don't want. What sets Bowman apart, is he was
money wherever he went. Three cups with Detroit, Five with Montreal, One with the Penguins, Three
cup finals with Buffalo. He had one bad stint out of five. If Belichick had been successful with
Cleveland he'd be in the same league with Bowman, but he couldn't even get them to the Super Bowl and
had a losing record.
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Post by marco26 on Mar 21, 2017 2:10:44 GMT
Dude, you left off your poll the greatest coach in sports history. You completely left him off!
You know who I am talking about: the only coach in pro sports history who has won championships in TWO different sports! Wouldn't you say a guy who can do that is far better than Phil Jackson or Belicheat or anybody else on your list who only has won championships in one sport? And not only did this guy win championships in two different sports...he's won MULTIPLE championships in those sports.
I am talking about Joe Gibbs: three Super Bowl championships and four NASCAR championships.
(And by the way, Gibbs won those three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks...and two of them were so-so QBs. When Belicheat wins Super Bowls with someone other than Brady, let me know. And, Gibbs also won his four NASCAR championships with three different drivers. Coach Gibbs can clearly coach and win championships with whoever is in front of him.)
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