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Post by Vegas on Jul 10, 2018 20:45:08 GMT
The fact that you are too stupid to know the difference between "Religion" and "God" speaks volumes as to the nature of this conversation. ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/9posd47tl/devilconf.gif) Wow! You really are a moron..... This has been answered by me via your own words... twice now. You truly are an imbecile. "People in brainless houses....." My question specifically pertains to God. The definition of an atheist is someone who doesn’t believe in a higher power. You really don’t have a brain if you can’t even realize that. Wow.... just wow. ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/xynwotmzd/explode.gif) You might want to try another website that will suit your intellectual shortcomings.... Try circlesarefuntomake.com.... because if you think that any discussion about religion can be answered with "I don't believe in God, stupid"... this website is too sophisticated for you.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 10, 2018 20:45:15 GMT
The exactly two questions asked in the Pew research does not indicate my statement is incorrect or what you said is true...Which it isn;t. If you were to give me the task of saying that ether someone is moral for worshipping God or not, then I would say yes you have to believe in God to be moral. Either/or questions are not based in reality. Where are people arguing with you about there being only one moral standard? The links merely state what people think of godly morality and doesn't even factor in other types. Btw, let's not forget the initial idiocy of your thread when you said this: Do you have a pew poll for that retarded statement too? Hey, worthless dipshit, my question was pretty simple, yet you and your sock account can’t seem to get it through your brainless head. Since you don’t have a brain, I’ll make this nice and slow for you. My question was as follows: “Why do people believe that there can be no morality without the belief in God?” The closest thing to an answer I’ve gotten has been that modern morality as we know it wouldn’t exist without the belief in God, and that even atheists derive their moral beliefs from the people who do believe in God, which doesn’t really answer my question. Of course, you and your sock have insisted on resorting to personal insults just because I asked a question that pissed you off. That suggests to me that you’re either a child, or a pathetic piece of shit who isn’t worth anyone’s time. Now do the world a favor, and go to hell, assuming there is one.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 10, 2018 20:51:37 GMT
My question specifically pertains to God. The definition of an atheist is someone who doesn’t believe in a higher power. You really don’t have a brain if you can’t even realize that. Wow.... just wow. ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/xynwotmzd/explode.gif) You might want to try another website that will suit your intellectual shortcomings.... Try circlesarefuntomake.com.... because if you think that any discussion about religion can be answered with "I don't believe in God, stupid"... this website is too sophisticated for you. You know what’s funny? The whole reason you were supposedly annoyed by my initial question was because you apparently thought I was trying to rub in what a bunch idiots theists are. Ignoring the fact that this wasn’t even remotely my intention, you and your sock account have done nothing but insult me for daring to ask a question you don’t like, and have insulted my intelligence multiple times in order to try and prove a point. Even assuming that my intention was in fact that to make people who believe in God look like idiots, that would mean that you would’ve been playing right into it by refusing to be civil, and insisting on calling me a “dumbassed”. Seriously, what is the fucking point of any of this? If I wanted to start a fight, I would’ve posted this question on a board that has nothing to do with religion and faith. I asked this question here because I wanted to see what the answers would be. I am in no mood for a fight with some worthless sack of debris like yourself.
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Post by Vegas on Jul 10, 2018 20:51:47 GMT
Hey, worthless dipshit, my question was pretty simple, yet you and your sock account can’t seem to get it through your brainless head. Since you don’t have a brain, I’ll make this nice and slow for you. My question was as follows: “Why do people believe that there can be no morality without the belief in God?” The closest thing to an answer I’ve gotten has been that modern morality as we know it wouldn’t exist without the belief in God, and that even atheists derive their moral beliefs from the people who do believe in God, which doesn’t really answer my question. Of course, you and your sock have insisted on resorting to personal insults just because I asked a question that pissed you off. That suggests to me that you’re either a child, or a pathetic piece of shit who isn’t worth anyone’s time. Now do the world a favor, and go to hell, assuming there is one. HEY SMITHY!!! THIS MORON THINKS YOUR MY SOCK!!!!! ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/tek3suwt5/laugh.gif) ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/tek3suwt5/laugh.gif) ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/tek3suwt5/laugh.gif)
wait a minute.... ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/c2xjcn7h5/none.gif)
HE THINKS I'M YOUR SOCK??!!! ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/zfhc6k2hl/angry2.gif)
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 10, 2018 20:53:47 GMT
Hey, worthless dipshit, my question was pretty simple, yet you and your sock account can’t seem to get it through your brainless head. Since you don’t have a brain, I’ll make this nice and slow for you. My question was as follows: “Why do people believe that there can be no morality without the belief in God?” The closest thing to an answer I’ve gotten has been that modern morality as we know it wouldn’t exist without the belief in God, and that even atheists derive their moral beliefs from the people who do believe in God, which doesn’t really answer my question. Of course, you and your sock have insisted on resorting to personal insults just because I asked a question that pissed you off. That suggests to me that you’re either a child, or a pathetic piece of shit who isn’t worth anyone’s time. Now do the world a favor, and go to hell, assuming there is one. HEY SMITHY!!! THIS MORON THINKS YOUR MY SOCK!!!!! ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/tek3suwt5/laugh.gif) ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/tek3suwt5/laugh.gif) ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/tek3suwt5/laugh.gif)
wait a minute.... ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/c2xjcn7h5/none.gif)
HE THINKS I'M YOUR SOCK??!!! ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/zfhc6k2hl/angry2.gif) “You’re”. I normally wouldn’t bring up minor things like that, but since you were so insistent on calling me a “dumbassed”, I figured that the irony was worth mentioning.
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Post by Vegas on Jul 10, 2018 20:55:56 GMT
Even assuming that my intention was in fact that to make people who believe in God look like idiots, that would mean that you would’ve been playing right into it by refusing to be civil, and insisting on calling me a “dumbassed”. Seriously, what is the fucking point of any of this? Wait... You think that this applies to me... How? I'm not a theist, numbnuts. You are barking up the wrong tree. Edit: Hang on... Let me fix this. Your barking up the wrong tree.
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Post by Vegas on Jul 10, 2018 20:57:41 GMT
HEY SMITHY!!! THIS MORON THINKS YOUR MY SOCK!!!!! ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/tek3suwt5/laugh.gif) ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/tek3suwt5/laugh.gif) ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/tek3suwt5/laugh.gif)
wait a minute.... ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/c2xjcn7h5/none.gif)
HE THINKS I'M YOUR SOCK??!!! ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/zfhc6k2hl/angry2.gif) “You’re”. I normally wouldn’t bring up minor things like that, but since you were so insistent on calling me a “dumbassed”, I figured that the irony was worth mentioning. It's not.... Just worthy of showing out how desperate "your" becoming. ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/m8f14k0ih/yes.gif)
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 10, 2018 21:04:34 GMT
Even assuming that my intention was in fact that to make people who believe in God look like idiots, that would mean that you would’ve been playing right into it by refusing to be civil, and insisting on calling me a “dumbassed”. Seriously, what is the fucking point of any of this? Wait... You think that this applies to me... How? I'm not a theist, numbnuts. You are barking up the wrong tree. You’re the one who apparently thought that I’m a condescending dick who likes to make fun of people of faith, so I guess we’re both guilty here. Seriously, this topic was never worth any of this arguing. I wasn’t looking to start a fight with anyone. Again, if a fight was what I was looking for, I would’ve asked this question on a board that has nothing to do with faith. I asked this question here because I wanted to see what people would have to say, and I assumed that the people here would provide reasonable answers, including the people who believe in God, because contrary to what you accused me of, I don’t think that believing in God makes a person stupid. If you don’t like me starting a topic like this, fine, but don’t make pretentious assumptions about me.
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Post by Vegas on Jul 10, 2018 21:15:19 GMT
Wait... You think that this applies to me... How? I'm not a theist, numbnuts. You are barking up the wrong tree. You’re the one who apparently thought that I’m a condescending dick who likes to make fun of people of faith, so I guess we’re both guilty here. Seriously, this topic was never worth any of this arguing. I wasn’t looking to start a fight with anyone. Again, if a fight was what I was looking for, I would’ve asked this question on a board that has nothing to do with faith. I asked this question here because I wanted to see what people would have to say, and I assumed that the people here would provide reasonable answers, including the people who believe in God, because contrary to what you accused me of, I don’t think that believing in God makes a person stupid. If you don’t like me starting a topic like this, fine, but don’t make pretentious assumptions about me. My bad. ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/s8tffwvq1/cheers.gif) …. But seriously.. learn the difference between "God" and "religion".
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 10, 2018 21:25:22 GMT
The exactly two questions asked in the Pew research does not indicate my statement is incorrect or what you said is true...Which it isn;t. If you were to give me the task of saying that ether someone is moral for worshipping God or not, then I would say yes you have to believe in God to be moral. Either/or questions are not based in reality. Where are people arguing with you about there being only one moral standard? The links merely state what people think of godly morality and doesn't even factor in other types. Btw, let's not forget the initial idiocy of your thread when you said this: Do you have a pew poll for that retarded statement too? Hey, worthless dipshit, my question was pretty simple, yet you and your sock account can’t seem to get it through your brainless head. Since you don’t have a brain, I’ll make this nice and slow for you. My question was as follows: “Why do people believe that there can be no morality without the belief in God?” The closest thing to an answer I’ve gotten has been that modern morality as we know it wouldn’t exist without the belief in God, and that even atheists derive their moral beliefs from the people who do believe in God, which doesn’t really answer my question. Of course, you and your sock have insisted on resorting to personal insults just because I asked a question that pissed you off. That suggests to me that you’re either a child, or a pathetic piece of shit who isn’t worth anyone’s time. Now do the world a favor, and go to hell, assuming there is one. You keep missing my point. You haven't presented a worthy premise that suggests this is happening so why would I answer something that isn't grounded in reality?
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Jul 10, 2018 22:11:56 GMT
I think we need to decide ourselves what sounds more plausible a source for morality. 1. Either morality is magically transferred into people being part of a religion directly from the source of that religion. 2. Or the society that they grow up in teaches them morality and empathy and any influence religion may have on it is purely co-incidental. You decide whichever one makes more sense to you. I'm having difficulty caring what you think. Perhaps you can list reasons why I should. Your method of winning arguments appears to be based on making up rules that require you to win. "Either morality is transferred magically" is not a rule. You just made that up. It does not have to be transferred magically for religion to play an important role in helping people learn morality. It has been explained many times now that science is not capable of solving issues in society that develop because people disagree what the problem is, and that most issues in society develop because people disagree what the problem is. Such issues require an art, not a science, and religion is certainly an art fit for the task. Now I'm even more confused. Religion is an art? I though religion was "divine truth" (or at least a path to divine truth). And if divine truth can't involve magic, then I really don't know what can. I'm not sure I would like to believe a religion simply because I found it aesthetically pleasing. I would prefer to think it had some greater source of authority than that surely...? But let's say you're right. There is no magic involved. It's just normal people writing down things on scrolls or etching them in rocks (or whatever). Where did their morality come from in the first place? Did they make it up themselves? Did their God impart this morality directly to them (and if so how? by talking to them or just implanting it directly in their heads/hearts/whatever)? And why do some religions let their own codes of morality change over time? If their morality has come from their God and God hasn't come back since then and said it's changed, why do the religions subsequently change their morality to make it fit in better with the more popular morality of the times?
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 10, 2018 22:31:09 GMT
Hey, worthless dipshit, my question was pretty simple, yet you and your sock account can’t seem to get it through your brainless head. Since you don’t have a brain, I’ll make this nice and slow for you. My question was as follows: “Why do people believe that there can be no morality without the belief in God?” The closest thing to an answer I’ve gotten has been that modern morality as we know it wouldn’t exist without the belief in God, and that even atheists derive their moral beliefs from the people who do believe in God, which doesn’t really answer my question. Of course, you and your sock have insisted on resorting to personal insults just because I asked a question that pissed you off. That suggests to me that you’re either a child, or a pathetic piece of shit who isn’t worth anyone’s time. Now do the world a favor, and go to hell, assuming there is one. You keep missing my point. You haven't presented a worthy premise that suggests this is happening so why would I answer something that isn't grounded in reality? I’ve mentioned this already, but if you don’t approve of my question, that’s fine, but there’s no need to make assumptions about me. I didn’t ask this question because I think people who believe in God are stupid. I just wanted to see what people here had to say on the matter. I wasn’t looking for a fight.
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Post by rizdek on Jul 11, 2018 0:20:30 GMT
Some apologists agree humans could come up with a moral compass on their own without a God, but it would be subjective rather than objective and ultimately meaningless...let me quote WLCraig on this...
I am personally not concerned with what Craig argues, but, well, this is his argument.
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Eλευθερί
Junior Member
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jul 11, 2018 1:04:51 GMT
It's just normal people writing down things on scrolls or etching them in rocks (or whatever). Where did their morality come from in the first place? Did they make it up themselves? Just made it up themselves? Who'da thunk?
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Post by Arlon10 on Jul 11, 2018 10:23:01 GMT
I'm having difficulty caring what you think. Perhaps you can list reasons why I should. Your method of winning arguments appears to be based on making up rules that require you to win. "Either morality is transferred magically" is not a rule. You just made that up. It does not have to be transferred magically for religion to play an important role in helping people learn morality. It has been explained many times now that science is not capable of solving issues in society that develop because people disagree what the problem is, and that most issues in society develop because people disagree what the problem is. Such issues require an art, not a science, and religion is certainly an art fit for the task. Now I'm even more confused. Religion is an art? I though religion was "divine truth" (or at least a path to divine truth). And if divine truth can't involve magic, then I really don't know what can. I'm not sure I would like to believe a religion simply because I found it aesthetically pleasing. I would prefer to think it had some greater source of authority than that surely...? But let's say you're right. There is no magic involved. It's just normal people writing down things on scrolls or etching them in rocks (or whatever). Where did their morality come from in the first place? Did they make it up themselves? Did their God impart this morality directly to them (and if so how? by talking to them or just implanting it directly in their heads/hearts/whatever)? And why do some religions let their own codes of morality change over time? If their morality has come from their God and God hasn't come back since then and said it's changed, why do the religions subsequently change their morality to make it fit in better with the more popular morality of the times? Again with the simplicity. Let's say a god doesn't have to do ahything at all the way you, a mere simple human, think it should. Let's say there's magic, or extraordinary possibilities, but they are only used in extraordinary circumstances. Let's also say that even without magic, religion is the biggest deal there is. Let's also say that although trivial details of life might change, the central core vital points of moraity do not. That covers everything then.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Jul 11, 2018 18:05:56 GMT
Now I'm even more confused. Religion is an art? I though religion was "divine truth" (or at least a path to divine truth). And if divine truth can't involve magic, then I really don't know what can. I'm not sure I would like to believe a religion simply because I found it aesthetically pleasing. I would prefer to think it had some greater source of authority than that surely...? But let's say you're right. There is no magic involved. It's just normal people writing down things on scrolls or etching them in rocks (or whatever). Where did their morality come from in the first place? Did they make it up themselves? Did their God impart this morality directly to them (and if so how? by talking to them or just implanting it directly in their heads/hearts/whatever)? And why do some religions let their own codes of morality change over time? If their morality has come from their God and God hasn't come back since then and said it's changed, why do the religions subsequently change their morality to make it fit in better with the more popular morality of the times? Again with the simplicity. Let's say a god doesn't have to do ahything at all the way you, a mere simple human, think it should. Let's say there's magic, or extraordinary possibilities, but they are only used in extraordinary circumstances. Let's also say that even without magic, religion is the biggest deal there is. Let's also say that although trivial details of life might change, the central core vital points of moraity do not. That covers everything then. You seem to be saying that it's all too complicated for people to understand. I don't know if you mean just me or if none of us are meant to understand how these instructions materialise? The process of how the instructions arrive seems quite important to me because that's the difference between a divine instruction and someone making it up themselves. But your response isn't "yes - here's an explanation" but rather it's "it's complicated - don't ask any questions". Which doesn't fill me with any confidence. Sounds to me like you're beginning to realise the whole thing is a scam....
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Post by Arlon10 on Jul 12, 2018 9:26:52 GMT
Again with the simplicity. Let's say a god doesn't have to do ahything at all the way you, a mere simple human, think it should. Let's say there's magic, or extraordinary possibilities, but they are only used in extraordinary circumstances. Let's also say that even without magic, religion is the biggest deal there is. Let's also say that although trivial details of life might change, the central core vital points of moraity do not. That covers everything then. You seem to be saying that it's all too complicated for people to understand. I don't know if you mean just me or if none of us are meant to understand how these instructions materialise? The process of how the instructions arrive seems quite important to me because that's the difference between a divine instruction and someone making it up themselves. But your response isn't "yes - here's an explanation" but rather it's "it's complicated - don't ask any questions". Which doesn't fill me with any confidence. Sounds to me like you're beginning to realise the whole thing is a scam.... Although it seems important to you exactly what the source of morality might be, it does not. It makes no difference what the source is or what people believe the source is. What does matter is whether you have something more compelling than other people have. Since you have nothing whatsoever, that is a fairly low bar for others to surpass.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Jul 12, 2018 22:27:08 GMT
You seem to be saying that it's all too complicated for people to understand. I don't know if you mean just me or if none of us are meant to understand how these instructions materialise? The process of how the instructions arrive seems quite important to me because that's the difference between a divine instruction and someone making it up themselves. But your response isn't "yes - here's an explanation" but rather it's "it's complicated - don't ask any questions". Which doesn't fill me with any confidence. Sounds to me like you're beginning to realise the whole thing is a scam.... Although it seems important to you exactly what the source of morality might be, it does not. It makes no difference what the source is or what people believe the source is. What does matter is whether you have something more compelling than other people have. Since you have nothing whatsoever, that is a fairly low bar for others to surpass. So you don't care where morality comes from? That seems to be what you're saying. And by extension of that, if a society makes up a system of morality that works well then you're fine with that. God and/or religion doesn't have to have anything to do with it really, right? They're simply used as a marketing tool to help spread the message and add a bit more weight to it because ultimately you have no idea where the morality comes from...
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Post by CrepedCrusader on Jul 13, 2018 1:08:20 GMT
People who think that generally have a broken moral compass themselves, and therefore assume that everyone else needs the fear the diving judgment from an invisible man in the sky to keep them from murdering, raping, and stealing, etc.
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Post by mslo79 on Jul 13, 2018 1:30:37 GMT
put it this way... without based things around God, people will inevitably choose immoral things because people tend to judge things based on how one feels about something instead of God's objective morality. He created everything so He makes the rules. so while we might not always like His standards, in the end, they are for our own good/happiness. He can't be wrong but it's our fallen nature that gets us to rebel against Him thinking He's bad to us etc. basically after the fall of Adam/Eve, humanity no longer see's things properly and we sometimes choose what's bad over what's good even though it seems good to us etc. you get the gist ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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