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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 9, 2018 19:17:02 GMT
Correction: apparently Thomas’s draft wasn’t called Monkey King, and it might not have involved the magical peaches that are in Columbus’s. Columbus just borrowed her opening in the haunted Scotch castle. (Fun fact: one of my favorite authors, Russell Kirk, wrote a rollicking adventure-in-the-grand-manner ghost story novel called Old House of Fear with a similar kind of plot as the Indy opening. Yes, I’ll never pass up on a chance to stump for Kirk’s works. ) Also, wrong place for this, but— politicidal , @forceghostackbar , President Ackbar™ , Primemovermithrax Pejorative, et al.: if my uncle with his zillions of movies does have a ‘90s VHS copy of Empire Strikes Back, will that not have at least some of the changes?
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Jul 9, 2018 22:37:14 GMT
Correction: apparently Thomas’s draft wasn’t called Monkey King, and it might not have involved the magical peaches that are in Columbus’s. Columbus just borrowed her opening in the haunted Scotch castle. (Fun fact: one of my favorite authors, Russell Kirk, wrote a rollicking adventure-in-the-grand-manner ghost story novel called Old House of Fear with a similar kind of plot as the Indy opening. Yes, I’ll never pass up on a chance to stump for Kirk’s works. ) Also, wrong place for this, but— politicidal , @forceghostackbar , President Ackbar™ , Primemovermithrax Pejorative , et al.: if my uncle with his zillions of movies does have a ‘90s VHS copy of Empire Strikes Back, will that not have at least some of the changes? The "changed" version was not released until 1997 ( I saw it on friday february 21st ) I would not worry too much about which "version" you are watching. If you've "never seen it" you won't notice any difference.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 9, 2018 23:57:04 GMT
Thanks, President Ackbar™. I’m sure you’re right, it’s just that Primemovermithrax Pejorative has told me that it’s much better to see the originals (“you can only see them for the first time once!”), so if I even have a shot at seeing them (other than the first Star Wars itself now) that way, I’d like to take the opportunity.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jul 10, 2018 0:44:11 GMT
Another I heard of in the early 90s was Indiana Jones and the Lost Continent (I think it became a Fate of Atlantis video game). At one time there was talk of getting Kevin Costner as his brother.
There was also a series of Find Your Fate adventures--many of which I have--with painted covers using his likeness. In the early days of the internet a fan script was making the rounds called Indiana Jones and the Sons of Darkness, about the quest to find a relic of Noah's Ark --the skeleton of the son of the Devil.
Personally I think there was a pattern established in the films-occult items related to prominent religious systems--so with that in mind-since the first is Judaism, the second Hinduism, the third Christianity, then the only two left would be Islam and Buddhism. Not aliens.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jul 10, 2018 0:47:30 GMT
Thanks, President Ackbar™ . I’m sure you’re right, it’s just that Primemovermithrax Pejorative has told me that it’s much better to see the originals (“you can only see them for the first time once!”), so if I even have a shot at seeing them (other than the first Star Wars itself now) that way, I’d like to take the opportunity. I agree with Darth Ackbar that the SE version of THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK (that is-the version released in 1997) is not that bad--there isn't much in the way of critical changes. They didnt change voices--the added stuff in Cloud City is ok. But the version from 2004--forget it. You must avoid at all costs.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 27, 2018 15:54:55 GMT
Another I heard of in the early 90s was Indiana Jones and the Lost Continent (I think it became a Fate of Atlantis video game). At one time there was talk of getting Kevin Costner as his brother. There was also a series of Find Your Fate adventures--many of which I have--with painted covers using his likeness. In the early days of the internet a fan script was making the rounds called Indiana Jones and the Sons of Darkness, about the quest to find a relic of Noah's Ark --the skeleton of the son of the Devil. Personally I think there was a pattern established in the films-occult items related to prominent religious systems--so with that in mind-since the first is Judaism, the second Hinduism, the third Christianity, then the only two left would be Islam and Buddhism.
Not aliens. I really don’t think there was an intentional pattern—certainly not from Lucas, who wanted to use aliens early on—but I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to this schema. The problem is, what would be the artifacts for Islam and Buddhism? For the former, perhaps the Ring of Solomon (to control djinn) or something to do with the Seven Sleepers? But both are too closely related with Judaism and Christianity as well. Or Muhammad’s sword—or something from The Arabian Nights? For the latter—I dunno, rework the Monkey King script with Sun Wukong/Hanuman? I can’t think of anything else.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 27, 2018 16:08:04 GMT
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jul 27, 2018 16:21:15 GMT
I really don’t think there was an intentional pattern—certainly not from Lucas, who wanted to use aliens early on—but I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to this schema. The problem is, what would be the artifacts for Islam and Buddhism? For the former, perhaps the Ring of Solomon (to control djinn) or something to do with the Seven Sleepers? But both are too closely related with Judaism and Christianity as well. Or Muhammad’s sword—or something from The Arabian Nights? For the latter—I dunno, rework the Monkey King script with Sun Wukong/Hanuman? I can’t think of anything else. I don't think it was a conscious pattern. But yeah, there isn't really much that is visually interesting that is truly Islamic. Arabian Nights and Pre-Islamic possibilities and whatever it could be would be more obscure than the Ark or Grail (which is just another reason why they should have stopped with the third movie IMO).
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 5, 2018 15:58:33 GMT
Reading the Monkey King script right now. I was re-reading politicidal’s thread on The Explorer’s Guild (which I still haven’t read yet, but I will!) and saw that he brought up Shambhala, a specifically Buddhist Shangri-la—which may work for the “Buddhist relic,” Primemovermithrax Pejorative. (In fact, politicidal’s current avatar, Joseph Rock, wrote a series of articles that inspired James Hilton to create Shangri-la.) The only problem is that both Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow and the third Mummy movie use Shangri-la, probably exactly because the Indy series hadn’t used it. (By the way, anyone else like the Mummy movies? I thought 1 and 3 were great fun.)
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Aug 5, 2018 16:59:50 GMT
Reading the Monkey King script right now. I was re-reading politicidal ’s thread on The Explorer’s Guild (which I still haven’t read yet, but I will!) and saw that he brought up Shambhala, a specifically Buddhist Shangri-la—which may work for the “Buddhist relic,” Primemovermithrax Pejorative . (In fact, politicidal’s current avatar, Joseph Rock, wrote a series of articles that inspired James Hilton to create Shangri-la.) The only problem is that both Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow and the third Mummy movie use Shangri-la, probably exactly because the Indy series hadn’t used it. (By the way, anyone else like the Mummy movies? I thought 1 and 3 were great fun.) Well if Lucas hadnt been a slowpoke they would have done Shangri-La before Sky Captain (an 80s Indiana Jones Marvel comic did it too...BTW TSR Hobbies had an Indiana Jones board game in the 80s and they had a ton of potential treasure quest ideas).
I like the Mummy movies especially the first.
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ravi02
Sophomore
@ravi02
Posts: 795
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Post by ravi02 on Aug 5, 2018 17:04:53 GMT
I still love the 1999 Mummy with Brendan Fraiser. It has a fun hero and heroine, entertaining villains, comic relief that works, great action sequences and CGI that doesn't go overboard.
The Mummy Returns is OK. The overblown CGI sequences (the bit with the Scorpion King looked terrible even in 2001) and cheesy backstory with Evie don't make it as fun as the first, yet it has some entertaining action bits.
Tomb of the Dragon Emperor is terrible. Fraiser looks bored and has zero chemistry with Mario Bello (good actress, but a mistake to recast the character). There's too many main characters to keep track of, the action sequences are dull and the film wastes Jet Li and Michelle Yeoh by staging their fight scene for a few minutes. Awful film.
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 5, 2018 17:43:06 GMT
Oh, ravi02 , I moderately liked Dragon Emperor, for better or worse. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen it, admittedly, but I thought it was good goofy fun. The only one I really love is the first one, though; the second is the one I thought was terrible. Primemovermithrax Pejorative , very interesting about relics/treasures in the board game—I hadn’t even known there was an Indy board game. And I had no idea that a comic had already done Shangri-la… I’ve only read a few of the Dark Horse comics, which I can’t really remember anyway… Also, I now know what politicidal meant by calling Monkey King “batshit insane” and @forceghostackbar by “one bad screenplay.” It’s terribly written, too. By the way, Lucas or somebody had to have used those early scenes as an inspiration for Young Indy’s “Transylvania” episode. Way too close to be mere coincidence. Opening also reminded me of two ‘40s Sherlock Holmes movies: Sherlock Holmes Faces Death and The Scarlet Claw. But the writing and dialogue stink.
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 5, 2018 17:49:01 GMT
OK. Monkey King is terrible. I still like the concept, but the script is unbelievably bad, and neither Indy nor Marcus acts like himself. The Betsy character is a disgrace to characterization. Absolutely atrocious.
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Post by politicidal on Aug 5, 2018 17:54:35 GMT
Reading the Monkey King script right now. I was re-reading politicidal ’s thread on The Explorer’s Guild (which I still haven’t read yet, but I will!) and saw that he brought up Shambhala, a specifically Buddhist Shangri-la—which may work for the “Buddhist relic,” Primemovermithrax Pejorative . (In fact, politicidal’s current avatar, Joseph Rock, wrote a series of articles that inspired James Hilton to create Shangri-la.) The only problem is that both Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow and the third Mummy movie use Shangri-la, probably exactly because the Indy series hadn’t used it. (By the way, anyone else like the Mummy movies? I thought 1 and 3 were great fun.) Interesting read ain't it? . I still like the boat chase and tank battle for their sheer absurdity. As for Shangri-La, I think Indiana Jones can still use it if done proper (as with anything else). They could combine with stories about Agartha (a Hollow Earth paradise) or as preposterous as it is, go the lost world route with Mu or Lemuria or something Lovecraftian that takes place in Antarctica.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Aug 5, 2018 18:16:13 GMT
Primemovermithrax Pejorative , very interesting about relics/treasures in the board game—I hadn’t even known there was an Indy board game. And I had no idea that a comic had already done Shangri-la… I’ve only read a few of the Dark Horse comics, which I can’t really remember anyway… The first Indiana Jones comic was in the early 80s. They had Toht's sister in one (I recall she teamed up with an Amazon assassin --from the same tribe as the ones who had the golden idol in the first movie I believe). One particularly memorable story had him in a duststorm in an Australian desert and he ends up in a cave filled with treasures--owned by a Moroccon guy who has Ismaili assassins as bodyguards. He is seeking the Fourth Nail in Jesus's crucifixion. This was eventually adapted into a TSR game.
I recall Stonehedge was in one story-and he had a British archeologist partner (a "Ruth Wonderly" type).
There was a black Sydney Greenstreet type villain in another comic.
Oh--I think in the Shangri-La one they had the Yeti too.
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Post by politicidal on Aug 5, 2018 18:25:48 GMT
Primemovermithrax Pejorative , very interesting about relics/treasures in the board game—I hadn’t even known there was an Indy board game. And I had no idea that a comic had already done Shangri-la… I’ve only read a few of the Dark Horse comics, which I can’t really remember anyway… The first Indiana Jones comic was in the early 80s. They had Toht's sister in one (I recall she teamed up with an Amazon assassin --from the same tribe as the ones who had the golden idol in the first movie I believe). One particularly memorable story had him in a duststorm in an Australian desert and he ends up in a cave filled with treasures--owned by a Moroccon guy who has Ismaili assassins as bodyguards. He is seeking the Fourth Nail in Jesus's crucifixion. This was eventually adapted into a TSR game.
I recall Stonehedge was in one story-and he had a British archeologist partner (a "Ruth Wonderly" type).
There was a black Sydney Greenstreet type villain in another comic.
Oh--I think in the Shangri-La one they had the Yeti too.
I remember reading one comic about the Spear of Destiny and that was pretty disappointing. I guess the inclusion of Irish Nazis was original though. The story itself was just so small in scale.
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 5, 2018 18:28:32 GMT
Sounds like Tintin, Primemovermithrax Pejorative ! (Actually—doesn’t Tintin encounter the Yeti in Tintin in Tibet?) politicidal , I liked the absurdity of the boat chase too—haven’t gotten to the tank battle yet. I also liked bits and pieces of the opening (in concept, not execution) and Indy telling everyone the Sun Wu-Kung story. That’s pretty much it so far. Am now at the superfluous river pirates, soon after the superfluous Rick Blaine knock-off with Dashiell Hammett’s name and Jay Gatsby’s speech patterns.
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 5, 2018 18:36:34 GMT
The first Indiana Jones comic was in the early 80s. They had Toht's sister in one (I recall she teamed up with an Amazon assassin --from the same tribe as the ones who had the golden idol in the first movie I believe). One particularly memorable story had him in a duststorm in an Australian desert and he ends up in a cave filled with treasures--owned by a Moroccon guy who has Ismaili assassins as bodyguards. He is seeking the Fourth Nail in Jesus's crucifixion. This was eventually adapted into a TSR game. I recall Stonehedge was in one story-and he had a British archeologist partner (a "Ruth Wonderly" type). There was a black Sydney Greenstreet type villain in another comic. Oh--I think in the Shangri-La one they had the Yeti too. I remember reading one comic about the Spear of Destiny and that was pretty disappointing. I guess the inclusion of Irish Nazis was original though. The story itself was just so small in scale. The one comic I remember was the Spear of Destiny one—the one with Jones Sr., right? A black Sydney Greenstreet and a Ruth Wonderly/Bridget O’Shaugnessy-type seem pretty interesting, especially as The Maltese Falcon itself has a swell backstory for a Haggard-esque adventure, if Hammett had chosen to go that direction with it. And I like that “dust storm in desert leading to cave” idea, though it sounds a bit Aladdin-y.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Aug 5, 2018 18:44:17 GMT
Re: Mummy I liked Brendan Fraser's character. He had good comic timing like in the second one where Oded Fehr (who was the straight man in the story--he took the mummy threat entirely serious) sees the tattoo and starts reciting a Magi ID test: "If I said I was a traveler from the East heading West.." and Fraser responds correctly in a subtle tongue in cheek manner.
Actually though-the Mummy was an Indiana Jones type adventure without Indiana Jones--the ending with the ghostly chariot taking away Imhotep's spirit was Raiders-like.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Aug 5, 2018 18:51:16 GMT
The one comic I remember was the Spear of Destiny one—the one with Jones Sr., right? A black Sydney Greenstreet and a Ruth Wonderly/Bridget O’Shaugnessy-type seem pretty interesting, especially as The Maltese Falcon itself has a swell backstory for a Haggard-esque adventure, if Hammett had chosen to go that direction with it. And I like that “dust storm in desert leading to cave” idea, though it sounds a bit Aladdin-y. The first Marvel IJ story was called the Ikons of Ikammanen. Something about people dipped in gold. The Shangri-La story involved looking for Abner Ravenwood (Marion appears in some issues).
The Africa Screams is another one that was adapted into a TSR game story.
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