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Post by telegonus on Jul 11, 2018 7:04:19 GMT
I haven't traveled enough, nor have I am sufficiently well informed to express an opinion, even as joke, on how great America is. This is just a FWIW weighing in.  I wonder if there's anyone capable of answering the question with any accuracy. From what I've heard from highly intelligent people I have known over the years, for health care, yes. The quality, I mean, not the price. People come from all over the world, and I mean rich people, to have their medical procedures handled by American hospitals, American doctors and nurses. My sense is that there's probably far more religious freedom in America than elsewhere, to which I must add, to the best of my knowledge, which surely has its limits. The question is probably impossible to answer with accuracy, and where I'm coming from, confidence. There are so many subjective factors. I have known way too many people who have traveled around the world,--several times--and spent much time abroad, living and working, and yet on several topics I wouldn't trust their opinions on any number of issues, even in areas in which they have experience, simply because of all the times I've heard things from them that were just plain wrong. So to wrap it up from my perspective, the question of whether America's (categorically) the greatest country in the world or not is simply too large, broad and unmanageable for any one person to answer. For my part, I have no intention of leaving. The pluses far outweigh the minuses. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jul 11, 2018 8:43:52 GMT
Yes.
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Post by geode on Jul 11, 2018 16:11:37 GMT
I think the difference between our opinions is summed up in your last sentence. You are attempting to only allow a country to be termed "the greatest country in the world" if it is a paragon of virtue. I very carefully stated that every country that has ever existed has had negative aspects. To me it is implicit that the meaning in the phrase was meant to be relative. On that basis there is now, and has always been in the past a country that was better, or greater, than the rest no matter how flawed. The others would simply be more flawed. Although we agree that the United States is not currently the greatest country in the world, in the context of the discussion in the video in the OP there is some country that actually is "the greatest country in the world" right now. I am not sure which one this might be. Your summation of the negative aspects of the U.S. is taking all of its history sort of lumped together. My discussion was more specific...specific to one period of time decades ago. A time when most other countries had as bad or worse problem with racism. At a time when the accusation of acting like an international policeman was not as valid. Well, my categorisation of the greatest country was based on 'net positive' value added by a country to both its citizens and the rest of the world than only on being a paragon of virtue. That said in the period which you have described (end of WWII to next one or two decades) America was a better country than it has been at any time else in its history and I wouldn't hold you a chauvinist for holding such an opinion as I can totally understand that there are rationales behind holding such an opinion and also that some non-Americans can feel like the same way. However, America still doesn’t satisfy my criteria for 1940-60 period as racism was extreme even during that period and while it may have not been actively indulging in playing international policeman, the seeds for it was being planted then. You have interpretted my comments to mean something I didn't necessarily claim. I said the U.S. may have been the greatest country in the world in a period after WW II, not that it was. My time period also more from the mid-40s to about 1960. As for racism in that period I think you are exaggerating, especially if my earlier comment is not ignored. It was a time when desegregation started in schools, etc. Rosa Parks refused to sit at the back of the bus. The armed forces were integrated, as was baseball. But once again was the United States a standout in terms of racism? It had more racial diversity than many European countries, so perhaps more opportunity for racial conflicts than say, Switzerland. But similar countries had similar problems at the time. Again, this is something that would need to be taken in a relative sense. |
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Post by geode on Jul 11, 2018 16:12:57 GMT
I think the difference between our opinions is summed up in your last sentence. You are attempting to only allow a country to be termed "the greatest country in the world" if it is a paragon of virtue. I very carefully stated that every country that has ever existed has had negative aspects. To me it is implicit that the meaning in the phrase was meant to be relative. On that basis there is now, and has always been in the past a country that was better, or greater, than the rest no matter how flawed. The others would simply be more flawed. Although we agree that the United States is not currently the greatest country in the world, in the context of the discussion in the video in the OP there is some country that actually is "the greatest country in the world" right now. I am not sure which one this might be. Your summation of the negative aspects of the U.S. is taking all of its history sort of lumped together. My discussion was more specific...specific to one period of time decades ago. A time when most other countries had as bad or worse problem with racism. At a time when the accusation of acting like an international policeman was not as valid. BTW, it is nice to see you again, geode. You are among my all-time favourite posters here and I have a great respect for the courtesy you show in your posts and the knowledge that you add to the board. Thank you. It is good to see you as well. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 11, 2018 16:33:04 GMT
Well, my categorisation of the greatest country was based on 'net positive' value added by a country to both its citizens and the rest of the world than only on being a paragon of virtue. That said in the period which you have described (end of WWII to next one or two decades) America was a better country than it has been at any time else in its history and I wouldn't hold you a chauvinist for holding such an opinion as I can totally understand that there are rationales behind holding such an opinion and also that some non-Americans can feel like the same way. However, America still doesn’t satisfy my criteria for 1940-60 period as racism was extreme even during that period and while it may have not been actively indulging in playing international policeman, the seeds for it was being planted then. You have interpretted my comments to mean something I didn't necessarily claim. I said the U.S. may have been the greatest country in the world in a period after WW II, not that it was. My time period also more from the mid-40s to about 1960. As for racism in that period I think you are exaggerating, especially if my earlier comment is not ignored. It was a time when desegregation started in schools, etc. Rosa Parks refused to sit at the back of the bus. The armed forces were integrated, as was baseball. But once again was the United States a standout in terms of racism? It had more racial diversity than many European countries, so perhaps more opportunity for racial conflicts than say, Switzerland. But similar countries had similar problems at the time. Again, this is something that would need to be taken in a relative sense. I apologise for the misinterpretation. That said, I do believe I was talking about fairly around time period you cited (even if there was a margin of few years around both ends). I understand that there were elements in the US that were against racism during the time period in question. But it does not mean that there was not severe racism in that time period. It only means that there were also large forces working against it. I personally do not only see things on relative scale but want at least some minimum standards to accord a country the title of the greatest country in the world. For example, if there are many bad societies in this world then we cannot call the least bad one as the greatest. While there may have been racism in European societies too the fact remains that there was significant racism in American society during 1945-1960 time period. of course I was not there to witness that but you get ideas from reading about those times. Well, in any case, it does seem that our criteria for establishing the greatest country in the world may be a bit different. So, I would conclude that according to my criteria I do not find USA as the greatest country in the world for any specific time period. Yes, I do find it as among the relatively better societies for some specific time periods. But there may be people who have rational arguments in favour of claiming or making a case for USA. I personally do not agree with them but I can understand that those people have some valid points. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 22:28:51 GMT
Morgana
The Jewish lobby?
NAZI!!! NAZI!!!
So what did you think of the video Maya? |
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Post by maya55555 on Jul 11, 2018 23:55:56 GMT
Father N
You are so much smarter than I; since you posted it what are your thoughts?
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Post by geode on Jul 12, 2018 6:06:50 GMT
You have interpretted my comments to mean something I didn't necessarily claim. I said the U.S. may have been the greatest country in the world in a period after WW II, not that it was. My time period also more from the mid-40s to about 1960. As for racism in that period I think you are exaggerating, especially if my earlier comment is not ignored. It was a time when desegregation started in schools, etc. Rosa Parks refused to sit at the back of the bus. The armed forces were integrated, as was baseball. But once again was the United States a standout in terms of racism? It had more racial diversity than many European countries, so perhaps more opportunity for racial conflicts than say, Switzerland. But similar countries had similar problems at the time. Again, this is something that would need to be taken in a relative sense. I apologise for the misinterpretation. That said, I do believe I was talking about fairly around time period you cited (even if there was a margin of few years around both ends). I understand that there were elements in the US that were against racism during the time period in question. But it does not mean that there was not severe racism in that time period. It only means that there were also large forces working against it. I personally do not only see things on relative scale but want at least some minimum standards to accord a country the title of the greatest country in the world. For example, if there are many bad societies in this world then we cannot call the least bad one as the greatest. While there may have been racism in European societies too the fact remains that there was significant racism in American society during 1945-1960 time period. of course I was not there to witness that but you get ideas from reading about those times. Well, in any case, it does seem that our criteria for establishing the greatest country in the world may be a bit different. So, I would conclude that according to my criteria I do not find USA as the greatest country in the world for any specific time period. Yes, I do find it as among the relatively better societies for some specific time periods. But there may be people who have rational arguments in favour of claiming or making a case for USA. I personally do not agree with them but I can understand that those people have some valid points. Once again I will render my opinion that it in the context of the OP there will be a country ranked at the top at any given time. This will always be a choice that is very subjective. Here is such a ranking that places Switzerland at the top The USA ranks #8. Ranking of countries |
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Post by Morgana on Jul 12, 2018 9:57:26 GMT
Morgana
The Jewish lobby?
NAZI!!! NAZI!!!
That doesn't even deserve a reply, but i have a question: do you always SHOUT at people like that, Maya? |
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Post by cybajedi on Jul 12, 2018 16:27:29 GMT
The rest of the world is happy for Americans to think that.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jul 12, 2018 18:08:46 GMT
Morgana
The Jewish lobby?
NAZI!!! NAZI!!!
That doesn't even deserve a reply, but i have a question: do you always SHOUT at people like that, Maya? Morgana, she was being satirical. You didn't get it.  You mentioned the Jewish Lobby, and "Nazi" is the charge levied against her whenever she mentions it. |
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 13, 2018 2:33:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 10:59:12 GMT
Depends on what Greatest means to you.
If you mean a place where you can pretty much expeess yourself and be anything you want to be, get any job, have anything you want, then yes. With the most exposure. You can live in NYC or the plains of Kansas. The contry of Georgia, Alabama, or Texas, or a tropical Florida, California, and so on. You can make it in Hollywood, or YouTube.
But I'm sure other countries have better healthcare or school systems, or whatever. So it depends.
Military, U.S. is pretty dominant.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 22:32:09 GMT
Morgana
The Jewish lobby?
NAZI!!! NAZI!!!
That doesn't even deserve a reply, but i have a question: do you always SHOUT at people like that, Maya? Maya is the classic attention whore. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 22:39:36 GMT
Father N
You are so much smarter than I; since you posted it what are your thoughts? American like to pat themselves on the back too much.
They were once in top spot but became victims of their own success. The US has let themselves slip over the last 40 or so years. They have let the gap between rich and poor grow at have been steadily destroying the middle class. Pretty soon there will be the 1% rich and the 99% poor. Education has been a target for destroying instead of investing in.
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Post by telegonus on Jul 14, 2018 18:48:45 GMT
Depends on what Greatest means to you. If you mean a place where you can pretty much expeess yourself and be anything you want to be, get any job, have anything you want, then yes. With the most exposure. You can live in NYC or the plains of Kansas. The contry of Georgia, Alabama, or Texas, or a tropical Florida, California, and so on. You can make it in Hollywood, or YouTube. But I'm sure other countries have better healthcare or school systems, or whatever. So it depends. Military, U.S. is pretty dominant. That's about right regarding the military, for sure. Also, our PR people (the media, etc.) have been trumpeting America, America the Beautiful and the American Dream for quite some time now. Is there another country on the planet that does this? In my lifetime, I suppose the Soviet Union during the Cold War was making a big deal over the virtues of its form of government, but who's out there now beating the drum for Communism? A bit earlier, there was the British empire, but that's over now, too. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 19:15:42 GMT
Watch the video. Discuss what is said. |
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Post by Lugh on Jul 14, 2018 19:33:36 GMT
No. If America was to be conquered and given post-WW1 german style treatment it would be good for the world.
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 15, 2018 1:14:42 GMT
Watch the video. Discuss what is said. I watched the video. My answer is....it depends on which measure you are using. America is great in some ways, horrible in others. The term greatness means nothing until it’s put into context and the parameters of greatness are defined. |
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Post by goz on Jul 16, 2018 23:06:17 GMT
I voted 'yes' butt hesitated over the 'partly' option because I don't think America ever was the greatest country in the world.
One f the reasons I think this is because so many Americans either think that it was or that it is.
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I wonder if there's anyone capable of answering the question with any accuracy. From what I've heard from highly intelligent people I have known over the years, for health care, yes. The quality, I mean, not the price. People come from all over the world, and I mean rich people, to have their medical procedures handled by American hospitals, American doctors and nurses.
