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Post by lenlenlen1 on Mar 22, 2019 15:45:58 GMT
Yes, lenlenlen1 , "logic" explains a lot but not everything. Just as "humor" is often appropriate but not always. There are some occurrences that are just not explainable by any means, be it logic or scientific testing, but they do happen and they happen to people who would really rather they not experience them whatever the explanation is. Often they can be looked back on as "well, that was odd. That was cool. That is totally without explanation " and they would be interesting, and perhaps informative, to tell others about BUT in the telling the response is all too often along the lines of "you are crazy", "you were drunk", "you are an idiot for even thinking this thing happened" and so the stories are not shared. It is very likely that there are a heck of a lot of stories that are not being told (except perhaps in a more private setting) because of the backlash that all too often follows the telling. As far as debunking anyone's inexplicable experience … it's so much easier to make a blanket statement of "you are mistaken!" and considering the case closed.
Okay let me comment on this "backlash" thing.
I'm not calling anyone an asshole for believing, I'm not saying your retarded for believing, I'm not saying any of that. Nor did I say "you are crazy", "you were drunk", "you are an idiot for even thinking this thing happened".
If my TONE comes off that way then I apologize for THAT, but I wont apologize, for defending reason and logic. We have too little of that nowadays. Its like we're going backwards lately. Is science, logic and common sense so hard that superstition and magic are better? WTF?
As far as debunking anyone's inexplicable experience … it's so much easier to just believe without proof, than to question things and have your accepted beliefs challenged. If your accepted beliefs cant stand up to challenge then what are they worth?
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Mar 22, 2019 15:54:00 GMT
Here's some more food for thought...
This from a simple Google search.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 22, 2019 16:00:06 GMT
lenlenlen1As for the backlash issue: Was not referring to you alone or personally … it's all too often the general reaction to any telling of "un-explainable" experiences. Some of the questioning BY the one who experienced these things is BECAUSE there just simply is no logical or reasoning explanation for the occurrence. When someone does step up and tell their tale .. they are met with the dismissive commentary cited earlier. Are these people simply mistaken ? Maybe ! But there has to be more to it than that.
More specifically : RE: POINT is … these things happen and are being questioned as to why and how and what was going on. They happen to people who do NOT "believe in ghosts, spirits, the supernatural" and yet they DID happen !
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 22, 2019 16:04:33 GMT
lenlenlen1These experiences have nothing to do with "false memories" (imo) and that is a whole 'nuther subject as was "Hear hoofbeats ? Think horses, not zebras."
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Mar 22, 2019 17:07:39 GMT
lenlenlen1 As for the backlash issue: Was not referring to you alone or personally … it's all too often the general reaction to any telling of "un-explainable" experiences. Some of the questioning BY the one who experienced these things is BECAUSE there just simply is no logical or reasoning explanation for the occurrence. When someone does step up and tell their tale .. they are met with the dismissive commentary cited earlier. Are these people simply mistaken ? Maybe ! But there has to be more to it than that.
More specifically : RE: POINT is … these things happen and are being questioned as to why and how and what was going on. They happen to people who do NOT "believe in ghosts, spirits, the supernatural" and yet they DID happen ! I'm not disputing that they happened. I'm disputing that it was ghosts, or things that cant be proven, that caused them.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Mar 22, 2019 17:16:48 GMT
lenlenlen1 These experiences have nothing to do with "false memories" (imo) and that is a whole 'nuther subject as was "Hear hoofbeats ? Think horses, not zebras." I prefer the term "incorrect memory", as opposed to "false". I don't want to insinuate that anyone is outright lying.
But I believe that in some cases remembering things incorrectly is exactly what's happening. When you believe something so strongly you can actually make yourself remember things differently than they actually happened in reality.
Someone I know once told me a story of how they were strangled by a ghost when they were a little kid. Years later they remembered it differently. The facts in the story had changed. And years after that they finally acknowledged that it was their abusive father who strangled them. But when they first told me the story they SWORE it was a ghost in their room.
It happens.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 22, 2019 17:18:19 GMT
But don't you see ? That's the whole problem.
SOME things CANNOT be Proved or Dis-proved !
Even if one never mentions or even THINKS ghost or supernatural … things happen which cannot be explained logically or proven by any method used to date.
SOME occurrences can be disproved but not all !
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 22, 2019 17:23:13 GMT
lenlenlen1 imo incorrect memory does not apply to these occurences being discussed ..at least not the ones I am speaking about .. they are occurrences NOW and not childhood stuff being "remembered" as an adult. They are "whoa ! what was that thing that JUST happened ?" moments with no "memory" real / imagined / false attached. .
Edit to clarify POINT of earlier post you had said : my clarified reply: POINT is … these things happen and are being questioned by the person they happened to as to why and how and what was going on. They happen to people who do NOT "believe in ghosts, spirits, the supernatural" and yet they DID happen !
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Mar 22, 2019 17:31:00 GMT
lenlenlen1 imo incorrect memory does not apply to these occurences being discussed ..at least not the ones I am speaking about .. they are occurrences NOW and not childhood stuff being "remembered" as an adult. They are "whoa ! what was that thing that JUST happened ?" moments with no "memory" real / imagined / false attached. . But as soon as anything happens it becomes the past. Even if something happened five minutes ago, it happened then and not now. Days later is even further; and so on.
By the time you recount a memory again it often changes, becomes worse or clearer, etc. Memory is strange thing, and its actually more malleable than we like to believe. We want to believe that its cemented and that we know for sure what we know. Period. But its not always that way.
Haven't you ever had someone that you shared an experience with tell you "no, that's not how it happened. It happened like this." And you go "Oh, yeah, that's right!"? It happens.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 22, 2019 17:37:17 GMT
lenlenlen1ok … talking circles and probably meta-physics or something else now and all I can say .. is.... it has to happen to you to GET it ! Rather like muggings / stalkings / tornadoes / auto accidents etc are "grist for the humor mill" until and unless they happen to a person personally .. then understanding changes.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Mar 22, 2019 17:44:05 GMT
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Mar 22, 2019 20:59:27 GMT
I sometimes miss a beer or a glass or wine, but that is just a temptation. I don't really need it.
Especially when there's so many other temptations to choose from.  Yes, there are far more appealing and sinful temptations.... 
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 23:37:27 GMT
Yes, lenlenlen1 , "logic" explains a lot but not everything. Just as "humor" is often appropriate but not always. There are some occurrences that are just not explainable by any means, be it logic or scientific testing, but they do happen and they happen to people who would really rather they not experience them whatever the explanation is. Often they can be looked back on as "well, that was odd. That was cool. That is totally without explanation " and they would be interesting, and perhaps informative, to tell others about BUT in the telling the response is all too often along the lines of "you are crazy", "you were drunk", "you are an idiot for even thinking this thing happened" and so the stories are not shared. It is very likely that there are a heck of a lot of stories that are not being told (except perhaps in a more private setting) because of the backlash that all too often follows the telling. As far as debunking anyone's inexplicable experience … it's so much easier to make a blanket statement of "you are mistaken!" and considering the case closed. Just because it can't be explained, does not mean it's supernatural. Thing is with ghosts, why dont they ever appear in malls (an example) where everyone is around? Don't you think it's a little bit suspicious
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 22, 2019 23:53:48 GMT
@red Since you chose to quote my post (out of so many in the thread), I will reply as if you were posting to me. TRUE and please note that no where have I said or meant to imply that these un-explained occurrences are due to "The Supernatural". I have repeatedly said that they are "unexplained".
as for why ghosts don't go to the mall … no idea OR interest !  |
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 23, 2019 1:36:03 GMT
JUST now noticed that the OP only gave the choices of YES and NO no possibility of a MAYBE or a I DUNNO  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 1:52:46 GMT
JUST now noticed that the OP only gave the choices of YES and NO no possibility of a MAYBE or a I DUNNO Dont care. Maybe it's just me but I didnt wake up in Russia this morning
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 23, 2019 2:02:14 GMT
@red
I have NO idea what your comment ^^^^ means
MY Reference was that as an OP post supposedly intended to get commentary / discussion going, a YES and a NO rather closed the door to anything other than YES or NO.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 2:14:11 GMT
@red I have NO idea what your comment ^^^^ means
MY Reference was that as an OP post supposedly intended to get commentary / discussion going, a YES and a NO rather closed the door to anything other than YES or NO. Ah sorry about that, anyway here's this short excellent vid about ghosts.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 23, 2019 2:17:55 GMT
@red
But what did "Dont care. Maybe it's just me but I didnt wake up in Russia this morning " supposed to mean ?
It is so very high on the bizarre meter that curiosity over-rides caution and I have to ask.
edit …. Video was interesting … but, of course, does not cover every type of experience !
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 2:36:46 GMT
@red But what did "Dont care. Maybe it's just me but I didnt wake up in Russia this morning " supposed to mean ? It is so very high on the bizarre meter that curiosity over-rides caution and I have to ask. edit …. Video was interesting … but, of course, does not cover every type of experience ! I just misunderstood and thought you were trying to force us into either a yes or no, while I answered "I dont know"
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