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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 18:07:31 GMT
When does life begin? At conception or birth?
31 Answers
Camila S. Espinoza
Camila S. Espinoza, I'm just one more among 7.6 billion human beings.
Updated May 28, 2016 · Author has 783 answers and 6.4m answer views
This question can have multiple answers, so, as a health professional directly linked to pregnancy and birth, I can only give you the "scientific" point of view. My personal point is irrelevant here because this information has one objective, and that is to help you construct an answer to a deeply personal questioning.
Every living cell is not a living entity by itself. A sum of millions of cells creates tissue, and a sum of tissues creates an organ, a sum of organs creates a system, and a sum of systems create a living, breathing human under the right conditions.
Conception creates one cell, with the "potential" (But not certainty) to begin this process. Fast mitosis will occur, and one cell will become 2, then 4, then 8, then 16, then 32 cells, and so on and so on, until the implantation in the endometrial layer of a uterus, that may or may not happen.
If it occurs, then in days, 3 layers of tissue will be established, and they will have the potential to create organs... or not. Several factors can affect this process too. But lets say the process continues. And so, you will have an embryo (Trilaminar embryo) that is basically 3 layers of germ tissue in the shape of a disc. These layers will curve, a tube will be created, and the embryo will begin to grow the primitive foundation that will eventually create organs... or not. In here, we still have several factors that can affect the course of development.
But again, let’s say it continues. During the span of 12 weeks, the embryo will develop a rudimental system of organs. But still, it will be completely dependent on its surroundings to exist, with no autonomy whatsoever. In here, fewer factors (But still a considerable amount) can limit its existence, but its longevity is in no way established.
Moving on. After 12 weeks, an embryo will become a fetus, that needs to sharpen its organs and create fully functioning systems. This won’t happen fast. Most of its time in the womb will be spent in this tedious task, but once week number 20–24 hits, enough systems will be partially functional to allow it some minuscule portion of independency.
Any pregnancy that ends before week 20, or before the fetus weights 500 grams (1.1 pounds) is considered an abortion (That can be spontaneous, or induced for several reasons). Why? because the survival rate of a fetus any smaller than that is zero.
Any pregnancy that ends after this, is considered a birth, and the premature newborn, although precariously ready to be autonomous, has a very low, but present chance of survival once the cord is cut, marking his or her independence, but not assuring their optimal survival. Such an immature baby will require special care that can only be given by professionals in a NICU. The baby won't be able to breathe by itself, so special machines such as a CPAP to keep his or her lungs functioning or ECMO to oxygenate his or her blood will be required. She or he won't have the reflexes that allow suction and swallowing, so parenteral feeding (A specially formulated solution of nutrients that is given though a catheter directly to his or her bloodstream) will be required. Him or her won't have a fully functioning immune system, so a sterile environment will be necessary to prevent infections. The skin will be frail, and will separate from the connective tissue underneath under very light pressure, and vessels will be small and will break easily, so several hemorrhages, specially in the brain, will occur. Long term damage is practically assured even under the best conditions. Cognitive functions will be impaired, hearing, sight, renal and hepatic functions will be compromised partially or fully, several interventions will be necessary, each one increasing the risk of infection, and tissues will suffer from oxygen deprivation and toxicity (Oxygen is toxic if administrated at any concentration higher than the 21% found in air), damaging other organs partially or totally. If immaturity doesn't kill these extremely premature babies, any of the side effects I just enlisted, can.
The chances of survival, increase as the fetus grows inside the uterus. Fewer interventions are required if the pregnancy is interrupted by natural conditions or induction, and at 37 to 42 weeks, the chances of survival are optimal, and a fully formed newborn is delivered.
As you can see, this entire process is extremely fragile. Each stage brings multiple factors that can interrupt the process, even in the last trimester, and only one of those factors is premeditated (Induced abortion until week 20, or the induced interruption of pregnancy after that).
So, when does life really begins? That is for you to decide. I can only tell you when a fetus begins to have at least a chance of survival.
www.quora.com/When-does-life-begin-At-conception-or-birth
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Eλευθερί
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jul 27, 2018 19:10:51 GMT
Contrary to what Camila Espinoza says, the process is not "extremely fragile." Hundreds of millions of years of evolutionary fine-tuning has made the process pretty durable. However, as she points out, there are a large number of points at which the process could potentially fail.
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Eλευθερί
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jul 27, 2018 19:12:18 GMT
She could have just made a tl;dr to post at the beginning: "That is for you to decide. I can only tell you when a fetus begins to have a chance of survival outside the womb."
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jul 27, 2018 19:18:47 GMT
When does life begin? At conception or birth?
31 Answers
Camila S. Espinoza
Camila S. Espinoza, I'm just one more among 7.6 billion human beings.
Updated May 28, 2016 · Author has 783 answers and 6.4m answer views
This question can have multiple answers, so, as a health professional directly linked to pregnancy and birth, I can only give you the "scientific" point of view. My personal point is irrelevant here because this information has one objective, and that is to help you construct an answer to a deeply personal questioning.
Every living cell is not a living entity by itself. A sum of millions of cells creates tissue, and a sum of tissues creates an organ, a sum of organs creates a system, and a sum of systems create a living, breathing human under the right conditions.
Conception creates one cell, with the "potential" (But not certainty) to begin this process. Fast mitosis will occur, and one cell will become 2, then 4, then 8, then 16, then 32 cells, and so on and so on, until the implantation in the endometrial layer of a uterus, that may or may not happen.
If it occurs, then in days, 3 layers of tissue will be established, and they will have the potential to create organs... or not. Several factors can affect this process too. But lets say the process continues. And so, you will have an embryo (Trilaminar embryo) that is basically 3 layers of germ tissue in the shape of a disc. These layers will curve, a tube will be created, and the embryo will begin to grow the primitive foundation that will eventually create organs... or not. In here, we still have several factors that can affect the course of development.
But again, let’s say it continues. During the span of 12 weeks, the embryo will develop a rudimental system of organs. But still, it will be completely dependent on its surroundings to exist, with no autonomy whatsoever. In here, fewer factors (But still a considerable amount) can limit its existence, but its longevity is in no way established.
Moving on. After 12 weeks, an embryo will become a fetus, that needs to sharpen its organs and create fully functioning systems. This won’t happen fast. Most of its time in the womb will be spent in this tedious task, but once week number 20–24 hits, enough systems will be partially functional to allow it some minuscule portion of independency.
Any pregnancy that ends before week 20, or before the fetus weights 500 grams (1.1 pounds) is considered an abortion (That can be spontaneous, or induced for several reasons). Why? because the survival rate of a fetus any smaller than that is zero.
Any pregnancy that ends after this, is considered a birth, and the premature newborn, although precariously ready to be autonomous, has a very low, but present chance of survival once the cord is cut, marking his or her independence, but not assuring their optimal survival. Such an immature baby will require special care that can only be given by professionals in a NICU. The baby won't be able to breathe by itself, so special machines such as a CPAP to keep his or her lungs functioning or ECMO to oxygenate his or her blood will be required. She or he won't have the reflexes that allow suction and swallowing, so parenteral feeding (A specially formulated solution of nutrients that is given though a catheter directly to his or her bloodstream) will be required. Him or her won't have a fully functioning immune system, so a sterile environment will be necessary to prevent infections. The skin will be frail, and will separate from the connective tissue underneath under very light pressure, and vessels will be small and will break easily, so several hemorrhages, specially in the brain, will occur. Long term damage is practically assured even under the best conditions. Cognitive functions will be impaired, hearing, sight, renal and hepatic functions will be compromised partially or fully, several interventions will be necessary, each one increasing the risk of infection, and tissues will suffer from oxygen deprivation and toxicity (Oxygen is toxic if administrated at any concentration higher than the 21% found in air), damaging other organs partially or totally. If immaturity doesn't kill these extremely premature babies, any of the side effects I just enlisted, can.
The chances of survival, increase as the fetus grows inside the uterus. Fewer interventions are required if the pregnancy is interrupted by natural conditions or induction, and at 37 to 42 weeks, the chances of survival are optimal, and a fully formed newborn is delivered.
As you can see, this entire process is extremely fragile. Each stage brings multiple factors that can interrupt the process, even in the last trimester, and only one of those factors is premeditated (Induced abortion until week 20, or the induced interruption of pregnancy after that).
So, when does life really begins? That is for you to decide. I can only tell you when a fetus begins to have at least a chance of survival.
www.quora.com/When-does-life-begin-At-conception-or-birth A very good article written from a scientific point of view. Now, from a 2,000+ year old book's point of view: Leviticus 17:11 King James Version (KJV) 11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. This can be viewed in several contexts; God approves of blood sacrifices, presumably human, for atonement of sins. Also, this verse has been used to define the start of life - when the fetal heart begins pumping blood - and that doesn't happen at conception. So, what does this 2,000+ year old book, written by ignorant nomads, tell us specifically about abortion? Hard to say, based on that verse. I think I'll stick with science. It's observable, testable, repeatable,... Thanks for posting the article, Eddy! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 19:19:52 GMT
Birth
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Post by Cody™ on Jul 27, 2018 19:25:18 GMT
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Post by RiP, IMDb on Jul 27, 2018 19:34:10 GMT
Conception.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jul 27, 2018 19:46:35 GMT
I have been doing some data entry for a genealogist of late, and before our modern era, many babies born, still died within the first year of life, and many mothers died in childbirth, as did babies. So before the age of modern medicine, pregnancy, childbirth and infancy had a percentage of deaths associated with it. Almost every family lost at least one child in infancy. Just getting born did not assure a life. One might ask a fundamentalist Christian like Cody why his god let so many deaths happen? Also, on all those old tombstones, only the date of birth and the date of death were recorded, not the date of conception, so I too would agree, life starts at birth. Many tombstones recorded how many years, months and days the individual lived. Many babies died the day they were born. It wasn't that long ago, just a few generations. Both my father and my mother lost siblings in infancy. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 27, 2018 20:13:14 GMT
It doesn’t really matter.
The law has determined that life begins at a particular time for legal purposes.
It doesn’t change the attitudes regarding abortion regardless.
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Eλευθερί
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jul 27, 2018 20:15:42 GMT
One might ask a fundamentalist Christian like Cody why his god let so many deaths happen? If you believe in "life after death" and in Heaven, having a life cut short in infancy or childhood isn't necessarily such a bad thing, since the infant's or child's soul can go on to Heaven and be spared the usual prerequisite of life on Earth (unless you also believe that only people who have been born again and personally accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior can make it into Heaven, which could theoretically consign those poor kids' souls to Purgatory or whatever until the Second Coming ... ). The bigger question is why the omniscient and infinitely beneficent God would allow little children and even babies to suffer so much pain. There are many medical conditions that cause pain and suffering, both physical and emotional, in the afflicted. If you believe pain and suffering are punishments for sin, how can a baby have sinned? Is the baby being punished for the sins of their parents? For the sins of Adam and Eve? Is that just and right? |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jul 27, 2018 20:50:08 GMT
One might ask a fundamentalist Christian like Cody why his god let so many deaths happen? If you believe in "life after death" and in Heaven, having a life cut short in infancy or childhood isn't necessarily such a bad thing, since the infant's or child's soul can go on to Heaven and be spared the usual prerequisite of life on Earth (unless you also believe that only people who have been born again and personally accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior can make it into Heaven, which could theoretically consign those poor kids' souls to Purgatory or whatever until the Second Coming ... ). The bigger question is why the omniscient and infinitely beneficent God would allow little children and even babies to suffer so much pain. There are many medical conditions that cause pain and suffering, both physical and emotional, in the afflicted. If you believe pain and suffering are punishments for sin, how can a baby have sinned? Is the baby being punished for the sins of their parents? For the sins of Adam and Eve? Is that just and right? No, it is not just and right. The whole system is just made up nonsense because early humans didn't know how natural law worked. Now, in this day and age, we know how it works and are learning more every day. But some people still cling to the comfortable old ways, because it's easier, they feel more secure, thinking that an all-powerful being is in control of it all, and listens to the thoughts of each and every one of us on a daily basis. What a lovely delusion. I used to share that delusion, until advances in medical science prolonged my life by 28 years and counting. Now I dance with the one who gave me a second chance: Science. |
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Post by them1ghtyhumph on Jul 28, 2018 6:27:11 GMT
At 40
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Post by RiP, IMDb on Jul 28, 2018 8:56:55 GMT
After death...IF you go to Heaven. HOWEVER, IF you go to Hell then you have NO LIFE...BUT ETERNAL DEATH!!!
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Post by Arlon10 on Jul 28, 2018 9:24:01 GMT
When does life begin? At conception or birth?
31 Answers
Camila S. Espinoza
Camila S. Espinoza, I'm just one more among 7.6 billion human beings.
Updated May 28, 2016 · Author has 783 answers and 6.4m answer views
This question can have multiple answers, so, as a health professional directly linked to pregnancy and birth, I can only give you the "scientific" point of view. My personal point is irrelevant here because this information has one objective, and that is to help you construct an answer to a deeply personal questioning.
Every living cell is not a living entity by itself. A sum of millions of cells creates tissue, and a sum of tissues creates an organ, a sum of organs creates a system, and a sum of systems create a living, breathing human under the right conditions.
Conception creates one cell, with the "potential" (But not certainty) to begin this process. Fast mitosis will occur, and one cell will become 2, then 4, then 8, then 16, then 32 cells, and so on and so on, until the implantation in the endometrial layer of a uterus, that may or may not happen.
If it occurs, then in days, 3 layers of tissue will be established, and they will have the potential to create organs... or not. Several factors can affect this process too. But lets say the process continues. And so, you will have an embryo (Trilaminar embryo) that is basically 3 layers of germ tissue in the shape of a disc. These layers will curve, a tube will be created, and the embryo will begin to grow the primitive foundation that will eventually create organs... or not. In here, we still have several factors that can affect the course of development.
But again, let’s say it continues. During the span of 12 weeks, the embryo will develop a rudimental system of organs. But still, it will be completely dependent on its surroundings to exist, with no autonomy whatsoever. In here, fewer factors (But still a considerable amount) can limit its existence, but its longevity is in no way established.
Moving on. After 12 weeks, an embryo will become a fetus, that needs to sharpen its organs and create fully functioning systems. This won’t happen fast. Most of its time in the womb will be spent in this tedious task, but once week number 20–24 hits, enough systems will be partially functional to allow it some minuscule portion of independency.
Any pregnancy that ends before week 20, or before the fetus weights 500 grams (1.1 pounds) is considered an abortion (That can be spontaneous, or induced for several reasons). Why? because the survival rate of a fetus any smaller than that is zero.
Any pregnancy that ends after this, is considered a birth, and the premature newborn, although precariously ready to be autonomous, has a very low, but present chance of survival once the cord is cut, marking his or her independence, but not assuring their optimal survival. Such an immature baby will require special care that can only be given by professionals in a NICU. The baby won't be able to breathe by itself, so special machines such as a CPAP to keep his or her lungs functioning or ECMO to oxygenate his or her blood will be required. She or he won't have the reflexes that allow suction and swallowing, so parenteral feeding (A specially formulated solution of nutrients that is given though a catheter directly to his or her bloodstream) will be required. Him or her won't have a fully functioning immune system, so a sterile environment will be necessary to prevent infections. The skin will be frail, and will separate from the connective tissue underneath under very light pressure, and vessels will be small and will break easily, so several hemorrhages, specially in the brain, will occur. Long term damage is practically assured even under the best conditions. Cognitive functions will be impaired, hearing, sight, renal and hepatic functions will be compromised partially or fully, several interventions will be necessary, each one increasing the risk of infection, and tissues will suffer from oxygen deprivation and toxicity (Oxygen is toxic if administrated at any concentration higher than the 21% found in air), damaging other organs partially or totally. If immaturity doesn't kill these extremely premature babies, any of the side effects I just enlisted, can.
The chances of survival, increase as the fetus grows inside the uterus. Fewer interventions are required if the pregnancy is interrupted by natural conditions or induction, and at 37 to 42 weeks, the chances of survival are optimal, and a fully formed newborn is delivered.
As you can see, this entire process is extremely fragile. Each stage brings multiple factors that can interrupt the process, even in the last trimester, and only one of those factors is premeditated (Induced abortion until week 20, or the induced interruption of pregnancy after that).
So, when does life really begins? That is for you to decide. I can only tell you when a fetus begins to have at least a chance of survival.
www.quora.com/When-does-life-begin-At-conception-or-birth Several of my relatives work in health care, one is a full fledged doctor. We know others who work in health care and some of them are not especially more intelligent than average. They often do not have any skill in making arguments. People who work in health care typically do not have to make any arguments. They state their opinion and take no arguments. You don't absolutely have to agree but you may not argue. The idea that the process might fail later is a totally ridiculous argument. Children of four years might die at age nine from cancer, that is no reason to take their life at four lightly. Never even mind how unlikely it is the cancer happens later. Thank you very much though for showing how stupid some "scientists" are. I try to claim many are and people wonder where my evidence is. Thank you for providing some. |
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jul 28, 2018 9:46:25 GMT
Life begins at conception obviously. You can't write "Every living cell" and say that the cell isn't alive. Living=alive, as long as we understand how English works.
This doesn't imply that abortion should be illegal. We're obviously killing something that's alive when we abort a fetus. We kill things that are alive when we breathe, scratch ourselves, wash our hands, and do all sorts of things. And we're killing (microscopic) animals (such as mites) when we do those things.
Most folks hinge the pro-choice argument on personhood, not whether the fetus is alive, whether it's an animal or whether it's human. It clearly is all of those things.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 13:38:50 GMT
Life begins at conception obviously. You can't write "Every living cell" and say that the cell isn't alive. Living=alive, as long as we understand how English works. Then gametes are alive as well, ergo 'life begins at conception' is incorrect. Life began over 3 billion years ago. |
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jul 28, 2018 14:12:10 GMT
Life begins at conception obviously. You can't write "Every living cell" and say that the cell isn't alive. Living=alive, as long as we understand how English works. Then gametes are alive as well, ergo 'life begins at conception' is incorrect. Life began over 3 billion years ago. Well that particular human life begins at conception. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 16:35:24 GMT
Life began about 4 billion years ago. That's the only 'beginning' there has ever been. Every life since has existed in an unbroken chain, with one life emerging gradually and seamlessly from another. |
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Post by Catman on Jul 28, 2018 16:36:09 GMT
Apparently when Flynn Rider (aka Eugene Fitzherbert) climbs into your tower while fleeing from Maximus, and you kawang him on the head with a frying pan, and you con him into taking you to see the floating lights.
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Eλευθερί
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jul 28, 2018 16:46:07 GMT
The question could be rephrased: "When does a person's life begin--at conception or birth (or some other point)?"
Then it would be necessary to define "person" and "life" and "begin."
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