PanLeo
Sophomore
@saoradh
Posts: 919
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Post by PanLeo on Mar 21, 2017 14:32:09 GMT
The use of violence for political aims. Even if you think the IRA were justified at the time, appointing Mary Travers as a SPAD is hardly the way to move on from the conflict. And where are we today exactly? After years of doing very little the assembly has now fallen apart and we're in political limbo. Coming our way is either another term of Arlene Foster as First Minister or Theresa May ruling directly. While Sinn Fein demand a border poll which is unlikely to succeed and wouldn't fix matters greatly either. How about: www.sinnfein.ie/contents/43322www.peoplebeforeprofit.ie/2016/10/gerry-carroll-and-eamonn-mccann-respond-to-sinn-fein-claim-they-sided-with-tories/www.socialistworld.net/doc/7195What stability? Sinn Fein's master plan is to make NI beholden to multinational corporations by cutting corporation tax and the same time it's enforcing austerity. There's such a thing as putting socialism aside but it's quite another to be enacting completely anti-socialist positions. They're not as bad as DUP (but hey, who is?) But this is a pretty blatant example:  1)If thats the definition of violence then clearly terrorism isnt neccesarily bad. George Washington and The Allies are terrorists under that definition. 2)Well isnt an assembly better then no assembly? What you suggest Sinn Fein do then? Refuse to work with DUP and be responsible for direct rule? 3) Having a different opinion isnt slander. 4) Sinn Fein master plan is a 32 county democratic socialist republic. www.sinnfein.ie/what-sinn-fein-stands-for5) Fair enough but at least they arent blatent in their sectarianism and actually care about unionists. |
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The Lost One
Junior Member
@lostkiera
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 1,302
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Post by The Lost One on Mar 21, 2017 15:01:43 GMT
1) I didn't say terrorism was always necessarily bad although IRA did target civilians and people who crossed them rather than just military targets. My point was that if SF were committed to peace and moving on they wouldn't be doing things that would upset the victims of terrorism like making Mary Travers a SPAD.
2) The problem is the NI Executive is a flawed system. Parties have to either scratch each others' backs or it falls apart. SF should acknowledge this and be campaigning for a new devolution Agreement. Really at this stage only the DUP would oppose it - Alliance, SDLP, UUP, PBP and TUV have now all denounced the Assembly setup and I can't imagine the Greens are greatly in love with it either. Only other assembly member left is Claire Sugden and I don't get the impression she'd side with the DUP against everyone else.
3) It's more than difference of opinion though. They skew what SP and PBP try to do by saying they're "anti-jobs" etc.
4) Good luck achieving that when you've made your country a tax haven beholden to capitalists.
5) Like I say they're better than DUP but doesn't mean I like them particularly
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PanLeo
Sophomore
@saoradh
Posts: 919
Likes: 53
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Post by PanLeo on Mar 21, 2017 15:13:16 GMT
1) I didn't say terrorism was always necessarily bad although IRA did target civilians and people who crossed them rather than just military targets. My point was that if SF were committed to peace and moving on they wouldn't be doing things that would upset the victims of terrorism like making Mary Travers a SPAD. 2) The problem is the NI Executive is a flawed system. Parties have to either scratch each others' backs or it falls apart. SF should acknowledge this and be campaigning for a new devolution Agreement. Really at this stage only the DUP would oppose it - Alliance, SDLP, UUP, PBP and TUV have now all denounced the Assembly setup and I can't imagine the Greens are greatly in love with it either. Only other assembly member left is Claire Sugden and I don't get the impression she'd side with the DUP against everyone else. 3) It's more than difference of opinion though. They skew what SP and PBP try to do by saying they're "anti-jobs" etc. 4) Good luck achieving that when you've made your country a tax haven beholden to capitalists. 5) Like I say they're better than DUP but doesn't mean I like them particularly 1) Only civilians who were spys or collaborators were targeted. The only republican groups who targeted innocents were IPLO and the Catholic Reaction Force. 2)It is Mary McArdle btw. Whats the difference between Mary McArdle and people like Martin McGuiness and Gerry Adams? McGuinness and Adams are responsible for far more deaths. They led the IRA military council. It really shouldnt have caused all the outrage that it did. 3) SDLP, Alliance etc dont really want to change it much though. 4) I know, I never said Sinn Fein were perfect but on economic issues they are the best mainstream party besides PBP. |
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The Lost One
Junior Member
@lostkiera
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 1,302
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Post by The Lost One on Mar 21, 2017 15:25:51 GMT
1) I didn't say terrorism was always necessarily bad although IRA did target civilians and people who crossed them rather than just military targets. My point was that if SF were committed to peace and moving on they wouldn't be doing things that would upset the victims of terrorism like making Mary Travers a SPAD. 2) The problem is the NI Executive is a flawed system. Parties have to either scratch each others' backs or it falls apart. SF should acknowledge this and be campaigning for a new devolution Agreement. Really at this stage only the DUP would oppose it - Alliance, SDLP, UUP, PBP and TUV have now all denounced the Assembly setup and I can't imagine the Greens are greatly in love with it either. Only other assembly member left is Claire Sugden and I don't get the impression she'd side with the DUP against everyone else. 3) It's more than difference of opinion though. They skew what SP and PBP try to do by saying they're "anti-jobs" etc. 4) Good luck achieving that when you've made your country a tax haven beholden to capitalists. 5) Like I say they're better than DUP but doesn't mean I like them particularly 1) Only civilians who were spys or collaborators were targeted. The only republican groups who targeted innocents were IPLO and the Catholic Reaction Force. 2)It is Mary McArdle btw. Whats the difference between Mary McArdle and people like Martin McGuiness and Gerry Adams? McGuinness and Adams are responsible for far more deaths. They led the IRA military council. It really shouldnt have caused all the outrage that it did. 3) SDLP, Alliance etc dont really want to change it much though. 4) I know, I never said Sinn Fein were perfect but on economic issues they are the best mainstream party besides PBP. 1) Hmm not sure they're quite as blameless as all that. Certainly some innocents got caught in the crossfire even if they weren't targets. Even with spies and collaborators, that relied on tip-offs and hearsay, hardly the most just system. Even now some of them have been covered up. 2) Yes apologies, pretty bad faux pas on my part. But anyway it's about sensitivity, they just didn't care that it wouldn't go down well and it served no purpose. Adams and McGuinness were at least figureheads who could keep the IRA in line. McArdle was just an IRA lackey who killed an innocent girl (her father was the collaborator after all, not her or her mother who they also tried to kill). 3) Agreed. But if SF tried for change and didn't get it at least that would be something. But they seem content with the status quo. 4) I like them best of the Big 5, but I think you know I'm not a fan of the Big 5 in general. |
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Post by tickingmask on Mar 21, 2017 16:11:48 GMT
I dont support dissident republicans. I am pro-GFA But you said your solution was to engage in an armed campaign against British imperialism in Ireland in order to bring about the liberation of the Irish people from British rule. The GFA ruled out such a 'solution' - no need to murder 3-year-old children in Warrington or anything like that any more - so you're a bit behind on the curve there. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 16:27:35 GMT
To be serious for a second...
Terrible things were done by all parties involved in the 'troubles'...
Ultimately, he sued for peace, and was a driving force in bringing about a cessation of hostilities, and a peaceful shared government...
In the final reckoning, he deserves credit for that...
Besides, I find gloating over the recently deceased in poor taste, whoever they are.
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PanLeo
Sophomore
@saoradh
Posts: 919
Likes: 53
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Post by PanLeo on Mar 21, 2017 17:26:43 GMT
I dont support dissident republicans. I am pro-GFA But you said your solution was to engage in an armed campaign against British imperialism in Ireland in order to bring about the liberation of the Irish people from British rule. The GFA ruled out such a 'solution' - no need to murder 3-year-old children in Warrington or anything like that any more - so you're a bit behind on the curve there. That was in the past, armed struggle failed. |
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