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Post by Toasted Cheese on Aug 6, 2018 8:27:21 GMT
Quint. Pretty visceral stuff. Quint's death was visceral and disturbing, because it was so graphic. For that reason though, and because Quint was a major player who hunted sharks for a living, I don't find it a scary death scene, just gruesome. Chrissie got my vote, because of the manner in which the sequence is portrayed. A perfect example of less is more and it worked beautifully in terms of what it intended to do. |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Aug 6, 2018 8:30:15 GMT
I have to go with Quint because I think it's likely Chrissie drowned or lost consciousness before being eaten. She may not have even seen it. Quint's whole body was going down its throat a little at a time in broad daylight. He knew what was happening and he had more time to think about it. She was screaming in pain and was very much aware of what was happening to her. Horrifying so. She was definitely not unconscious and she definitely did not drown. How long has it been since you've seen the movie? I think there is one time when she is yelling out it hurts! I watched this sequence stoned once with a flatmate, many many years ago on vhs. We got to the end of the sequence and stopped the film because it was too much and too freaky. |
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Post by dirtypillows on Aug 6, 2018 8:59:30 GMT
She was screaming in pain and was very much aware of what was happening to her. Horrifying so. She was definitely not unconscious and she definitely did not drown. How long has it been since you've seen the movie? I think there is one time when she is yelling out it hurts! I watched this sequence stoned once with a flatmate, many many years ago on vhs. We got to the end of the sequence and stopped the film because it was too much and too freaky. It is a freaky scene. The way it so perfectly achieves its effects is almost unreal, unimaginable. There's just got to be something going on in the subconscious here. Chrissie is in the big ocean, in the middle of the night, naked, alone... I don't know, but I think what we're reacting to is not what is happening to her, but rather we witness her fear and panic and her terror of the knowledge of what is happening to her... We know what is happening to her, she (very likely) knows what is happening to her and because Spielberg chose not to show any of the shark, we are forced to focus and become intimate with her fear. I would think that maybe this scene even makes some of us feel a heightened sense of vulnerability afterwards. And Spielberg gave it the exact right touch, the scene didn't go on for a moment too long... And the bit with that damn buoy! What a touch of the macabre! Even that - or maybe especially that - it's like the viewer is thinking the exact same thing Chrissie is thinking when she clings to that buoy, and that is for those three or four or maybe five seconds that she has grabbed hold of something tangible and real, there is the slightest, barest chance that maybe she can feel safe, just clinging desperately to that awful last resort thinking that maybe God has heard you and maybe you're safe again - but alas, she knows and we know (and most horrifyingly, we know that Chrissie knows she is about to die a horrible death, and I think that this is the thing that makes the scene work so brilliantly. There is even a component of sadness in her death.)
So, in that case, it would almost be like a kind of empathy we are feeling for Chrissie. This specific kind of fear, being attacked by something that we've always known was huge and ferocious and without mercy and to then have it actually come right up and make its presence known... There's nobody who is not vulnerable to that kind of fear. It's like her death is unreal, yet very real at the same time. And if they ever gave out Oscars for one shot appearances, surely Susan Backlinie would have been more than deserving for her ultra realistic and shattering turn! |
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Post by dirtypillows on Aug 6, 2018 9:12:02 GMT
Quint. Pretty visceral stuff. Quint's death was visceral and disturbing, because it was so graphic. For that reason though, and because Quint was a major player who hunted sharks for a living, I don't find it a scary death scene, just gruesome. Chrissie got my vote, because of the manner in which the sequence is portrayed. A perfect example of less is more and it worked beautifully in terms of what it intended to do. That's a very interesting take on Quint's death. So, you saw him as less vulnerable, less "afraid" of the shark (I mean, Quint made some bad judgment calls, like sometimes he should have listened to Hooper and Brody, but he just wouldn't do that, he thought he could take down the shark by himself), and because Quint seemed "less afraid" that took the edge off some of the element of the pure fear that was so basic in Chrissie's death scene? |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Aug 6, 2018 9:44:37 GMT
I think there is one time when she is yelling out it hurts! I watched this sequence stoned once with a flatmate, many many years ago on vhs. We got to the end of the sequence and stopped the film because it was too much and too freaky. It is a freaky scene. The way it so perfectly achieves its effects is almost unreal, unimaginable. There's just got to be something going on in the subconscious here. Chrissie is in the big ocean, in the middle of the night, naked, alone... I don't know, but I think what we're reacting to is not what is happening to her, but rather we witness her fear and panic and her terror of the knowledge of what is happening to her... We know what is happening to her, she (very likely) knows what is happening to her and because Spielberg chose not to show any of the shark, we are forced to focus and become intimate with her fear. I would think that maybe this scene even makes some of us feel a heightened sense of vulnerability afterwards. And Spielberg gave it the exact right touch, the scene didn't go on for a moment too long... And the bit with that damn buoy! What a touch of the macabre! Even that - or maybe especially that - it's like the viewer is thinking the exact same thing Chrissie is thinking when she clings to that buoy, and that is for those three or four or maybe five seconds that she has grabbed hold of something tangible and real, there is the slightest, barest chance that maybe she can feel safe, just clinging desperately to that awful last resort thinking that maybe God has heard you and maybe you're safe again - but alas, she knows and we know (and most horrifyingly, we know that Chrissie knows she is about to die a horrible death, and I think that this is the thing that makes the scene work so brilliantly. There is even a component of sadness in her death.)
So, in that case, it would almost be like a kind of empathy we are feeling for Chrissie. This specific kind of fear, being attacked by something that we've always known was huge and ferocious and without mercy and to then have it actually come right up and make its presence known... There's nobody who is not vulnerable to that kind of fear. It's like her death is unreal, yet very real at the same time. And if they ever gave out Oscars for one shot appearances, surely Susan Backlinie would have been more than deserving for her ultra realistic and shattering turn! What a magnificent breakdown of this sequence Mr. Dirty, as only you can express. You have got right to the essence of what was presented to us on an emotional level and have reached beyond that. That is the secret of Jaws. The film is a simple tale, but it is also other worldly and unreal in it's presentation that it also becomes a spiritual experience in a sense as well. It doesn't appear to tell us much as a story, but by that same token, it also gives us a lot.
We the audience know it's a shark, the character doesn't and since we don't see anything under the water, it's just becomes about witnessing something so terrifying happening to someone else and whose fear is so palpable, it projects right back at the audience. The vulnerability aspect behind this sequence would be about letting go and contained within Chrissie's final realization of defeat, in spite of her fight to cling onto life, this would also get imbued with a complete self-awareness and revelation as well. It would have been a fear that keeps one so transfixed in the moment, that whatever had gone before in her life would have suddenly been tainted irrelevant and obsolete. This letting go would have been the most courageous thing she would have ever done.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Aug 6, 2018 9:53:40 GMT
Quint's death was visceral and disturbing, because it was so graphic. For that reason though, and because Quint was a major player who hunted sharks for a living, I don't find it a scary death scene, just gruesome. Chrissie got my vote, because of the manner in which the sequence is portrayed. A perfect example of less is more and it worked beautifully in terms of what it intended to do. That's a very interesting take on Quint's death. So, you saw him as less vulnerable, less "afraid" of the shark (I mean, Quint made some bad judgment calls, like sometimes he should have listened to Hooper and Brody, but he just wouldn't do that, he thought he could take down the shark by himself), and because Quint seemed "less afraid" that took the edge off some of the element of the pure fear that was so basic in Chrissie's death scene? Quint knew the risks and had already looked death right in eye. He was as rough and as weather beaten as his decrepit boat. They were as one in a sense, not to mention his affiliation and connection with the ocean. He was a maverick of the seas and while he would have feared during that instance of confrontation with the shark, it would have taken a lot for Quint to be beaten and express his fear. It wasn't exactly an innocent or arbitrary death. |
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Post by dirtypillows on Aug 6, 2018 21:01:02 GMT
"Hey fellas! Fellas! the sheet. Make it fast... Hey, guys? You guys okay over there?"
and one vote for guy in the estuary!
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Post by Archelaus on Aug 6, 2018 21:06:19 GMT
Quint
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Aug 7, 2018 1:03:41 GMT
There is another death scene in the film that was only shown as an aftermath, when Hooper and Brody are going out at night to find a missing boat and that dudes head suddenly appears underwater out of the hole that Hooper is looking into. That was a shock\scare scene that made many people jump.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Aug 7, 2018 17:48:03 GMT
Quint. Pretty visceral stuff. Quint's death was visceral and disturbing, because it was so graphic. For that reason though, and because Quint was a major player who hunted sharks for a living, I don't find it a scary death scene, just gruesome. Chrissie got my vote, because of the manner in which the sequence is portrayed. A perfect example of less is more and it worked beautifully in terms of what it intended to do. I would argue that being a major player made his death scarier. We didn't really know much about Chrissie except that she was walking hreakfast for Bruce, so less investment in her survival. |
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Post by fangirl1975 on Aug 7, 2018 17:59:38 GMT
Chrissie's death is the scariest for me because of how little we see happening.
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Post by dirtypillows on Aug 7, 2018 18:49:16 GMT
When I was a kid, I used to get all freaked out at night, with my bed instead of the ORCA and the great white at the foot of my bed and me instead of Quint, slip slip slipping... Ahhhhh.....  Hey, RIP, IMDB, where did you come across this most gruesome of child's toys, anyway? Is this something you actually own, or did you come across the pic somewhere? I would love to have one! |
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Post by dirtypillows on Aug 7, 2018 18:57:17 GMT
There is another death scene in the film that was only shown as an aftermath, when Hooper and Brody are going out at night to find a missing boat and that dudes head suddenly appears underwater out of the hole that Hooper is looking into. That was a shock\scare scene that made many people jump. Yes, Toasted Cheese. Ben Gardner. I thought about putting him in, but then I didn't. Maybe I should have. I got to see JAWS on the big screen for the first time, summer of 2010. The theater was PACKED, I am very happy to be able to say this. So, that scene you brought up, with Hooper looking into the hole in the boat, and the head pops out... There was one woman in the audience who yelled out. I guess she had never seen the movie before. But to have exactly one person in a crowd yell out and jump like she did was perfection. Everybody in the audience laughed - good-naturedly, of course - at her reaction. It was so great. The whole thing was a wonderfully satisfying experience. |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Aug 7, 2018 19:00:52 GMT
Quint's death was visceral and disturbing, because it was so graphic. For that reason though, and because Quint was a major player who hunted sharks for a living, I don't find it a scary death scene, just gruesome. Chrissie got my vote, because of the manner in which the sequence is portrayed. A perfect example of less is more and it worked beautifully in terms of what it intended to do. I would argue that being a major player made his death scarier. We didn't really know much about Chrissie except that she was walking hreakfast for Bruce, so less investment in her survival. I suppose it would depend on how one defines scary. Is it just another term for being fearful? Chrissie's death was all about fear and brought to the surface the fear of the unknown, as we didn't see what it was that was attacking her, although in our minds we knew what it was. Once she knew there was danger, it became all about fear, her fear, which then became our fear as the audience. The fear portrayed was cinematically palpable.
Quint was a fearless character, who wouldn't have scared easily and his death in a sense was brought on more as a consequence of his direct actions. It wasn't scary in the sense that Quint wasn't fearful himself and while I thought his death was tragic, I don't exactly feel scared, perhaps just anxious watching what is unfolding. It was more a sequence of shock value. Chrissie's death, while shocking, was underscored with absolute fear. |
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Post by dirtypillows on Aug 7, 2018 19:09:57 GMT
It is a freaky scene. The way it so perfectly achieves its effects is almost unreal, unimaginable. There's just got to be something going on in the subconscious here. Chrissie is in the big ocean, in the middle of the night, naked, alone... I don't know, but I think what we're reacting to is not what is happening to her, but rather we witness her fear and panic and her terror of the knowledge of what is happening to her... We know what is happening to her, she (very likely) knows what is happening to her and because Spielberg chose not to show any of the shark, we are forced to focus and become intimate with her fear. I would think that maybe this scene even makes some of us feel a heightened sense of vulnerability afterwards. And Spielberg gave it the exact right touch, the scene didn't go on for a moment too long... And the bit with that damn buoy! What a touch of the macabre! Even that - or maybe especially that - it's like the viewer is thinking the exact same thing Chrissie is thinking when she clings to that buoy, and that is for those three or four or maybe five seconds that she has grabbed hold of something tangible and real, there is the slightest, barest chance that maybe she can feel safe, just clinging desperately to that awful last resort thinking that maybe God has heard you and maybe you're safe again - but alas, she knows and we know (and most horrifyingly, we know that Chrissie knows she is about to die a horrible death, and I think that this is the thing that makes the scene work so brilliantly. There is even a component of sadness in her death.)
So, in that case, it would almost be like a kind of empathy we are feeling for Chrissie. This specific kind of fear, being attacked by something that we've always known was huge and ferocious and without mercy and to then have it actually come right up and make its presence known... There's nobody who is not vulnerable to that kind of fear. It's like her death is unreal, yet very real at the same time. And if they ever gave out Oscars for one shot appearances, surely Susan Backlinie would have been more than deserving for her ultra realistic and shattering turn! What a magnificent breakdown of this sequence Mr. Dirty, as only you can express. You have got right to the essence of what was presented to us on an emotional level and have reached beyond that. That is the secret of Jaws. The film is a simple tale, but it is also other worldly and unreal in it's presentation that it also becomes a spiritual experience in a sense as well. It doesn't appear to tell us much as a story, but by that same token, it also gives us a lot.
We the audience know it's a shark, the character doesn't and since we don't see anything under the water, it's just becomes about witnessing something so terrifying happening to someone else and whose fear is so palpable, it projects right back at the audience. The vulnerability aspect behind this sequence would be about letting go and contained within Chrissie's final realization of defeat, in spite of her fight to cling onto life, this would also get imbued with a complete self-awareness and revelation as well. It would have been a fear that keeps one so transfixed in the moment, that whatever had gone before in her life would have suddenly been tainted irrelevant and obsolete. This letting go would have been the most courageous thing she would have ever done.
A spiritual experience?!!! I just read your comment for about the third or fourth time, Toasted Cheese. That is AWESOME! I love it! |
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Post by dirtypillows on Aug 7, 2018 19:13:39 GMT
I would argue that being a major player made his death scarier. We didn't really know much about Chrissie except that she was walking hreakfast for Bruce, so less investment in her survival. I suppose it would depend on how one defines scary. Is it just another term for being fearful? Chrissie's death was all about fear and brought to the surface the fear of the unknown, as we didn't see what it was that was attacking her, although in our minds we knew what it was. Once she knew there was danger, it became all about fear, her fear, which then became our fear as the audience. The fear portrayed was cinematically palpable.
Quint was a fearless character, who wouldn't have scared easily and his death in a sense was brought on more as a consequence of his direct actions. It wasn't scary in the sense that Quint wasn't fearful himself and while I thought his death was tragic, I don't exactly feel scared, perhaps just anxious watching what is unfolding. It was more a sequence of shock value. Chrissie's death, while shocking, was underscored with absolute fear. Yes. This. And to have this be the opening scene that Spielberg has given us! What an exhilarating rollercoaster ride of a movie! In my mind, JAWS is the perfect summer movie. |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Aug 7, 2018 19:17:55 GMT
There is another death scene in the film that was only shown as an aftermath, when Hooper and Brody are going out at night to find a missing boat and that dudes head suddenly appears underwater out of the hole that Hooper is looking into. That was a shock\scare scene that made many people jump. Yes, Toasted Cheese. Ben Gardner. I thought about putting him in, but then I didn't. Maybe I should have. I got to see JAWS on the big screen for the first time, summer of 2010. The theater was PACKED, I am very happy to be able to say this. So, that scene you brought up, with Hooper looking into the hole in the boat, and the head pops out... There was one person, an older lady, who yelped out. I guess she had never seen the movie before. But to have exactly one person in a crowd yell out and jump like she did was perfection. Everybody in the audience laughed - good-naturedly, of course - at her reaction. It was so great. The whole thing was a wonderfully satisfying experience. Pleased that you had a chance to finally see it at the cinema, even as a retro screening. These I find, are becoming more popular now as well. Even some of the local multiplexes are screening the occasional golden oldies.
My folks were too rigid and we had an opportunity to see Jaws at the cinema at the time of release, but they steadfastly refused to go. I would have been about 8. There were only 2 cinemas in the town we were visiting and the other one was showing a John Wayne movie. It was very unmemorable and it only made things worse when they showed the trailer for Jaws before the movie. Now, if only the other cinema had been showing a movie that had a restricted age rating on it, Jaws would have been the only other option, because kids could go to see that. If that was the case though, knowing my folks, I bet they would have decided not to go at all. Not only did they have their heads buried in the sand, it was stuck up their asses as well. Oh, the self-entitlements I had when I was a child. 
I ended up seeing Jaws 2 before the first and I think it was around 1980 when the did a re-release of Jaws, that I had a chance to see it at the cinema. By then, it appeared old hat and I wasn't as excited about it. Of course, now I know it for the classic that it is.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Aug 7, 2018 19:28:05 GMT
I suppose it would depend on how one defines scary. Is it just another term for being fearful? Chrissie's death was all about fear and brought to the surface the fear of the unknown, as we didn't see what it was that was attacking her, although in our minds we knew what it was. Once she knew there was danger, it became all about fear, her fear, which then became our fear as the audience. The fear portrayed was cinematically palpable.
Quint was a fearless character, who wouldn't have scared easily and his death in a sense was brought on more as a consequence of his direct actions. It wasn't scary in the sense that Quint wasn't fearful himself and while I thought his death was tragic, I don't exactly feel scared, perhaps just anxious watching what is unfolding. It was more a sequence of shock value. Chrissie's death, while shocking, was underscored with absolute fear. Yes. This. And to have this be the opening scene that Spielberg has given us! What an exhilarating rollercoaster ride of a movie! In my mind, JAWS is the perfect summer movie. JAWS, opened up a new era of cinema going experiences and while there have been some excellent and mainstream blockbusters since, it still holds a special place for it's awesome and reverential presentation, even if its style can appear a bit dated in parts. Really though, it is only the mid 70's era that gives it a dated look and perhaps the mechanics\effects behind what we see of the shark, and that is now also part of its charm and appeal, well for me anyway. It represented an era that I look back at with a golden fondness. |
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Post by RiP, IMDb on Aug 7, 2018 19:52:27 GMT
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Post by Spike Del Rey on Aug 7, 2018 20:03:42 GMT
dirtypillowsThat story reminds me of when I took my nephew to see it on the big screen for the first time. It was a midnight show, I'd say the theater was about half full (St. Louisans aren't a big movie-going bunch), and based on the demographics I knew a lot of the teenagers in the audience might have been seeing it for the first time. When Bruce makes his infamous appearance and Brody sees him for the first time, once the initial surprise from the first timers had died down, a young girl somewhere in front of me simply said "OH...MY...GOD!" It was really gratifying to see it having the same affect on viewers that it had nearly forty years earlier.
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