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Post by mikef6 on Aug 7, 2018 22:51:16 GMT
He had been raping children for years. Tell me again how atheists have no morals. If I had no morals I would become a Christian minister so I could fuck anybody I wanted and get myself rich off my sheep's gullibility. 18 Years for molestation |
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Eλευθερί
Junior Member
@eleutheri
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 1,670
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Post by Eλευθερί on Aug 7, 2018 23:08:09 GMT
Now, now, mikef6--you know that if he was doing something so horrible, he was never a true Christian.  |
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 7, 2018 23:12:38 GMT
Stupid people are everywhere. Evil people can be anywhere. It's not like you can say, "look, an evil gardener! We better stop hiring gardeners ever!" Most gardeners are not evil.
One person does not describe an entire group. Your "argument," if you were actually trying to make one, needs far more data.
I'm going to guess there might be atheists who know how to gather data.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Aug 8, 2018 4:34:16 GMT
He had been raping children for years. Tell me again how atheists have no morals. If I had no morals I would become a Christian minister so I could fuck anybody I wanted and get myself rich off my sheep's gullibility. 18 Years for molestationI am as disgusted by it as you are, mike. People who haven't experienced molestation as a child, or don't know someone who has, cannot fathom the damage done to those children. And to be victimized by a "man of god"... it is the ultimate betrayal of trust. It never stops haunting those children, it taints them for the rest of their lives. That's the problem with a religion teaching that it is a virtue to accept statements without sufficient evidence, it makes believers into prey. Predators are everywhere, and they don't exactly advertise what the are doing, and they can be convincingly manipulative. I know several 'survivors', but though they are still alive, a part of them is dead. It is almost impossible for them to have 'normal' relationships; many end up reclusive and depressed, better off alone. but not really alive. There is no punishment harsh enough, in my opinion. |
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Post by mikef6 on Aug 8, 2018 4:40:33 GMT
Stupid people are everywhere. Evil people can be anywhere. It's not like you can say, "look, an evil gardener! We better stop hiring gardeners ever!" Most gardeners are not evil. One person does not describe an entire group. Your "argument," if you were actually trying to make one, needs far more data. I'm going to guess there might be atheists who know how to gather data. Are you trying to put the old "few bad apples" metaphor over on me? The cops have worn that one out. There are no good cops because the so-called "good cops" protect the bad ones. The same applies in any "authority" that misuses trust. There is no way this man could have spent so many years in molesting children and not have others in his local church and wider church organization know about it. It always goes much deeper (or higher) than one man. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Aug 8, 2018 9:46:24 GMT
Stupid people are everywhere. Evil people can be anywhere. It's not like you can say, "look, an evil gardener! We better stop hiring gardeners ever!" Most gardeners are not evil. One person does not describe an entire group. Your "argument," if you were actually trying to make one, needs far more data. Never the least one might at least reasonably expect the most religious and devout to lead by moral example. Else what use are they? |
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 8, 2018 10:08:17 GMT
Stupid people are everywhere. Evil people can be anywhere. It's not like you can say, "look, an evil gardener! We better stop hiring gardeners ever!" Most gardeners are not evil. One person does not describe an entire group. Your "argument," if you were actually trying to make one, needs far more data. I'm going to guess there might be atheists who know how to gather data. Are you trying to put the old "few bad apples" metaphor over on me? The cops have worn that one out. There are no good cops because the so-called "good cops" protect the bad ones. The same applies in any "authority" that misuses trust. There is no way this man could have spent so many years in molesting children and not have others in his local church and wider church organization know about it. It always goes much deeper (or higher) than one man. I believe that some people are evil. I suppose they might get away with evil for a limited time. I believe that some evil people might take advantage of their authority, if by some accident they get any authority. I do not believe that evil is the result of any organization or authority. One organization that might be an exception is devil worshipers. I do not believe that people like you or people in any group you prefer are any less likely to be evil or less likely to get away with it, or any less likely to be devil worshipers. You have not shown any good reason I should change these opinions. Some people, although not "evil," are inept at catching evil and sometimes they make numerous arguments in the belief that numerous flawed arguments add up to one good one. I suspect some people lie for no other reason than they are evil themselves. There are ways to "prove" evil intent and acts. Those however can be like trying to "prove" knowledge by extraordinary (spiritual) means, people who are not immediate witnesses might doubt the proof. Surprise! |
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 8, 2018 10:13:20 GMT
Stupid people are everywhere. Evil people can be anywhere. It's not like you can say, "look, an evil gardener! We better stop hiring gardeners ever!" Most gardeners are not evil. One person does not describe an entire group. Your "argument," if you were actually trying to make one, needs far more data. Never the least one might at least reasonably expect the most religious and devout to lead by moral example. Else what use are they? I reasonably expect you to offer something better, not worse. |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 8, 2018 10:21:40 GMT
Stupid people are everywhere. Evil people can be anywhere. It's not like you can say, "look, an evil gardener! We better stop hiring gardeners ever!" Most gardeners are not evil. One person does not describe an entire group. Your "argument," if you were actually trying to make one, needs far more data. Never the least one might at least reasonably expect the most religious and devout to lead by moral example. Else what use are they? I do say there are people who might pretend to be more religious and devout than most. Not the same thing as people who are more religious or devout. Holding positions of power offers many benefits.
I do agree with you though that there are certain religious institutions who have not shown enough courage, commitment and responsibility in handling cases of sexual assaults on children/women/men. Probably the people who are head of these institutions fear what happens if the word gets out. Such people are definitely irresponsible, cowards and often complicit in the crime
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Aug 8, 2018 10:48:02 GMT
Never the least one might at least reasonably expect the most religious and devout to lead by moral example. Else what use are they? I do say there are people who might pretend to be more religious and devout than most. Not the same thing as people who are more religious or devout. Holding positions of power offers many benefits. Never the less it is reasonable to hold those who espouse higher standards to those standards. Matt 15:7-9 tells the casual reader what Christ thought of such hypocrisy. In the case of the world-wide child abuse scandal this is glaringly obvious. I would entirely agree with you. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Aug 8, 2018 10:54:54 GMT
Never the least one might at least reasonably expect the most religious and devout to lead by moral example. Else what use are they? I reasonably expect you to offer something better, not worse. Those who lack a belief in the deliberate supernatural have been shown in some surveys no worse, or no better in their moral choices, compared to the devoutly-challenged. But as for offering something better, such codes largely or entirely free from religious clap-trap such as the American Constitution or the UN charter on Human Rights are a pretty good start. There is also something better to be discovered - as Western liberal democracies have largely discovered - in societies lacking a theocracy. Such countries are inevitably more egalitarian, richer and, dare I say it, happier. Look at Ireland, now and 30 years ago. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 8, 2018 11:27:48 GMT
I reasonably expect you to offer something better, not worse. Those who lack a belief in the deliberate supernatural have been shown in some surveys no worse, or no better in their moral choices, compared to the devoutly-challenged. ... ... If by "devoutly challenged" you mean some people who call themselves "Christians" you are not setting a very high bar for yourselves. Indeed measures such as divorce rates, income levels and educational levels show that atheists compare to "Christians" (who have no rules). Meanwhile people in all the other "religions" do better than those atheists and Christians. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Aug 8, 2018 11:57:36 GMT
Those who lack a belief in the deliberate supernatural have been shown in some surveys no worse, or no better in their moral choices, compared to the devoutly-challenged. ... ... If by "devoutly challenged" you mean some people who call themselves "Christians" you are not setting a very high bar for yourselves.[sic] It is not I who sets the bar for morality, Arlon. And in the case of believers - of whatever ilk - the source is plain enough, whether or not they attain it. There have been some surveys I've seen showing the psychological advantages of social religion (where a supporting group can reduce the mental privations of isolationism for instance), and conservative societies do, quite naturally, have lower rates of some behaviour which are fiercely proscribed within them. One notes that by placing, as you do, Christians above in speech marks dividing the group you come perilously close to a True Scotsman claim, again. But so be it. And, as you (typically) lack any substantiation, or indeed definition, of what doing "better" means in regards to the rest of the religious, then all we have is your opinion. And you are welcome to it, as always. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 8, 2018 12:32:45 GMT
Tell me again how this dude being a perv means I'm guilty of something.
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Post by thefleetsin on Aug 8, 2018 14:32:11 GMT
the quickest way to a women's beaver is using your holy book an effing cleaver.
(a catholic priest whispered this into my ear as i was being forced to call him daddy.)
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 8, 2018 21:10:55 GMT
you come perilously close to a True Scotsman claim, again. But so be it. Again with the "fallacies." I have explained many times that "No True Scotsman" was and still is just a joke. It is not a fallacy or any failing of logic at all. Thank you anyway for demonstrating that only idiots try to win arguments by claiming fallacies. |
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Post by yougotastewgoinbaby on Aug 8, 2018 21:33:48 GMT
How very very very…
...unsurprising.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 9, 2018 11:20:19 GMT
How very very very… ...unsurprising. Ik, I think I would be surprised if someone was raping my kid. I better ask them just to be on the safe side. After all, they are around religious people all the time and there is an obvious direct connection.  |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Aug 9, 2018 13:57:21 GMT
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Aug 10, 2018 14:56:33 GMT
He had been raping children for years. Tell me again how atheists have no morals. If I had no morals I would become a Christian minister so I could fuck anybody I wanted and get myself rich off my sheep's gullibility. 18 Years for molestationI'm drawing on my familiarity with European fairy tales, here, but it seems to me that bad people who want to do bad things to other people are attracted to religion because, first, it is easy to be a wolf in sheep's clothing. Second, there is almost a limitless pool of target 'sheep'. And third, because Christianity preaches forgiveness for sins, the bad guy has only to say the magic words, 'god forgive me' and he is off the hook. What a fertile field for scams of all kinds, pedophilia, bilking good people out of their life savings and countless other manipulations. The Willow Creek church thread is another example. imdb2.freeforums.net/thread/120504/willow-church-pastor-elders-resignGive me verifiable facts, logic and reason any day. I'm done with getting screwed over. |
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