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Post by vegalyra on Aug 16, 2018 20:53:10 GMT
I don't care what color Bond is as long as he can play Baccarat Chemin-de-fer and drives an Aston-Martin. Those are two essential characteristics!
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Post by PreachCaleb on Aug 16, 2018 21:27:52 GMT
It's not exactly a calculus problem to figure out how a woman would be sexually. Assuming that needs to be something that would carry over. That'd be like wondering how to incorporate Superman's traditional anti-Japanese propaganda comics into modern movies. It wouldn't be "a woman." It would be "a woman who is Bond, 007." The archetypal woman in film has traditionally not been allowed to be sexually voracious without apology. The archetypal Bond has. So that would be an important consideration. As I said, not something that would be unthinkable to work around or something that is even intrinsically necessary to make a Bond movie. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2018 22:52:54 GMT
However, create NEW roles for different ethnicities. Couldn't you say just as much for actors? I mean, Sean Connery was the first 007. Why let Lazenby or Moore or any other actor play it? Just make up a new spy if you want them to have work. Same for Sherlock Holmes. Basil Rathbone is Sherlock, why let Benedict Cummerbund or Robert Downey Jr play him? (I'm sure somebody probably pre-dates Rathbone, so substitute him.) And so on. Why let Pine play Kirk? Why let anybody but Adam West play Batman? Is that your point of view? Stop being petty. You know what I mean. Okay. Then I want to see Henry Cavill play Black Panther in a remake. He makes a better superhero imho. Imagine that. Or let's recast Wonder Woman with a man. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2018 23:24:05 GMT
Couldn't you say just as much for actors? I mean, Sean Connery was the first 007. Why let Lazenby or Moore or any other actor play it? Just make up a new spy if you want them to have work. Same for Sherlock Holmes. Basil Rathbone is Sherlock, why let Benedict Cummerbund or Robert Downey Jr play him? (I'm sure somebody probably pre-dates Rathbone, so substitute him.) And so on. Why let Pine play Kirk? Why let anybody but Adam West play Batman? Is that your point of view? Stop being petty. You know what I mean. No, I really don't. I don't understand why it is that you'd be okay with going from Connery to Lazenby, but not from Craig to Elba. Except that those aren't really comparable. The ethnicity and gender of those two characters is an integral part of the character, since they are from monocultures - Black Panther isn't just a guy who happens to be black, he's a guy who is the leader of a nation of black people. Wonder Woman isn't just somebody who happens to be a woman, she's from a culture made up of only women. Bond, however, is not a character whose colour is especially important. He's from a country with both men and women of many different colours and ethnicities. It's perfectly reasonable that he could be black, or anything else. Now if you were making a biopic of, oh, say Nathan Bedford Forrest, then I'd be the first to say that you couldn't reasonably cast a black man in that role; it would make no more sense than a white Black Panther. Nor could you reasonably cast a black Lincoln. But when the race isn't important? Take... oh, say Idris Elba's character in Pacific Rim. There's no particular plot-related reason why he should be black, he just happened to be. If Pacific Rim were remade, there'd be no reason not to put a white, asian, female or other character into that role. So no, I'm afraid I still don't see your point. Perhaps you would care to explain it : why must Bond be white? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2018 0:48:57 GMT
Stop being petty. You know what I mean. No, I really don't. I don't understand why it is that you'd be okay with going from Connery to Lazenby, but not from Craig to Elba. Except that those aren't really comparable. The ethnicity and gender of those two characters is an integral part of the character, since they are from monocultures - Black Panther isn't just a guy who happens to be black, he's a guy who is the leader of a nation of black people. Wonder Woman isn't just somebody who happens to be a woman, she's from a culture made up of only women. Bond, however, is not a character whose colour is especially important. He's from a country with both men and women of many different colours and ethnicities. It's perfectly reasonable that he could be black, or anything else. Now if you were making a biopic of, oh, say Nathan Bedford Forrest, then I'd be the first to say that you couldn't reasonably cast a black man in that role; it would make no more sense than a white Black Panther. Nor could you reasonably cast a black Lincoln. But when the race isn't important? Take... oh, say Idris Elba's character in Pacific Rim. There's no particular plot-related reason why he should be black, he just happened to be. If Pacific Rim were remade, there'd be no reason not to put a white, asian, female or other character into that role. So no, I'm afraid I still don't see your point. Perhaps you would care to explain it : why must Bond be white? I get so tired of people who get on the internet and use sarcasm and passive aggressive tactics then try and pass it off as superior intelligence. How about this then. Idris Elba is 50 years old. I don't want an old Bond. Is that okay, or is that ageism? Am.I an ageist now? |
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Post by anthonyrocks on Aug 17, 2018 4:35:16 GMT
I think that Idris Elba should actually play a "JAMES BOND" Villain.
He was Pretty Good as the Main Villain in "STAR TREK BEYOND".
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Post by Fox in the Snow on Aug 17, 2018 5:19:28 GMT
I have no issue with a black Bond. I also have no issue with a white lead in Ghost in the Shell. Or a black or female Bob Dylan.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Aug 17, 2018 13:13:07 GMT
No, I really don't. I don't understand why it is that you'd be okay with going from Connery to Lazenby, but not from Craig to Elba. Except that those aren't really comparable. The ethnicity and gender of those two characters is an integral part of the character, since they are from monocultures - Black Panther isn't just a guy who happens to be black, he's a guy who is the leader of a nation of black people. Wonder Woman isn't just somebody who happens to be a woman, she's from a culture made up of only women. Bond, however, is not a character whose colour is especially important. He's from a country with both men and women of many different colours and ethnicities. It's perfectly reasonable that he could be black, or anything else. Now if you were making a biopic of, oh, say Nathan Bedford Forrest, then I'd be the first to say that you couldn't reasonably cast a black man in that role; it would make no more sense than a white Black Panther. Nor could you reasonably cast a black Lincoln. But when the race isn't important? Take... oh, say Idris Elba's character in Pacific Rim. There's no particular plot-related reason why he should be black, he just happened to be. If Pacific Rim were remade, there'd be no reason not to put a white, asian, female or other character into that role. So no, I'm afraid I still don't see your point. Perhaps you would care to explain it : why must Bond be white? I get so tired of people who get on the internet and use sarcasm and passive aggressive tactics then try and pass it off as superior intelligence. How about this then. Idris Elba is 50 years old. I don't want an old Bond. Is that okay, or is that ageism? Am.I an ageist now? Let's be honest: that's not why you don't want Idris Elba as James Bond. It's his skin color that's bothering you. Too much melanin. And yes, it is ageist. Robert Downey Jr is 53 yet still playing Ironman. Age doesn't mean anything if the guy can still do the role. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Aug 17, 2018 13:13:59 GMT
Couldn't you say just as much for actors? I mean, Sean Connery was the first 007. Why let Lazenby or Moore or any other actor play it? Just make up a new spy if you want them to have work. Same for Sherlock Holmes. Basil Rathbone is Sherlock, why let Benedict Cummerbund or Robert Downey Jr play him? (I'm sure somebody probably pre-dates Rathbone, so substitute him.) And so on. Why let Pine play Kirk? Why let anybody but Adam West play Batman? Is that your point of view? Stop being petty. You know what I mean. Okay. Then I want to see Henry Cavill play Black Panther in a remake. He makes a better superhero imho. Imagine that. Or let's recast Wonder Woman with a man. I don't know. I'd say petty is not wanting someone to get a job because of the color of their skin. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2018 14:18:29 GMT
Stop being petty. You know what I mean. Okay. Then I want to see Henry Cavill play Black Panther in a remake. He makes a better superhero imho. Imagine that. Or let's recast Wonder Woman with a man. I don't know. I'd say petty is not wanting someone to get a job because of the color of their skin. And this is where you spin my OP out of context to try and mold it to your weak point.
I don't care about the color of an actor's skin. What I'm saying is, I want Hollywood to get creative and develop new franchises, and new roles specifically for Black actors. That way, you aren't recasting traditional white roles with black actors just because.
That is worse. You are trying to pacify some ridiculous self righteous agenda about how Black people have been oppressed since they arrived in the United States. So we are going to let you be "James Bond" or "Superman" in a movie.
Wow... that's so nice of white Hollywood to do that.. (sarcasm)... that's actually a slap in the face of a black actor. I don't want to play a traditional white role if I'm a black actor. Why? Because now it's like you're doing it 'just because'.
Why not make a bad ass espionage film with a actor WRITTEN as a black male? That would be so much better. I'd love to see Idris Elba play a special agent, aging, not in his prime anymore, but experienced and intelligent who can still do things the younger agents can't. Not James Bond...
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Post by PreachCaleb on Aug 17, 2018 14:44:51 GMT
I don't know. I'd say petty is not wanting someone to get a job because of the color of their skin. And this is where you spin my OP out of context to try and mold it to your weak point.
I don't care about the color of an actor's skin. What I'm saying is, I want Hollywood to get creative and develop new franchises, and new roles specifically for Black actors.
That is worse. You are trying to pacify some ridiculous self righteous agenda about how Black people have been oppressed since they arrived in the United States. So we are going to let you be "James Bond" or "Superman" in a movie.
Wow... that's so nice of white Hollywood to do that.. (sarcasm)... that's actually a slap in the face of a black actor. I don't want to play a traditional white role if I'm a black actor. Why? Because now it's like you're doing it 'just because'.
Why not make a bad ass espionage film with a actor WRITTEN as a black male? That would be so much better. I'd love to see Idris Elba play a special agent, aging, not in his prime anymore, but experienced and intelligent who can still do things the younger agents can't. Not James Bond...
I disagree. I see no reason he can't play Bond, a fictional character whose race plays so little a role in his character, that even Ian Fleming went back and retconned him to being part Scottish just to keep in line with Connery's casting.
There's the mistake. Who says it's "just because." Idris is a phenomenal actor who's proven he can do action, drama, comedy, anything. He's British, the ladies (and guys) love him, and he looks amazing in a suit. He fits what a Bond actor needs and is a recognizable star. So other than the color of his skin, why can't he play Bond? |
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Post by Caesium137 on Aug 17, 2018 14:49:50 GMT
What I'm saying is, I want Hollywood to get creative and develop new franchises, and new roles specifically for Black actors. That way, you aren't recasting traditional white roles with black actors just because. Developing new franchises out of thin air is risky and doesn't happen often. Hence the chances it will be successful are small and the chances of it having a black lead are also small. James Bond is a guaranteed hit, and it gives a black actor a rare chances to star in a established franchise. Colour of skin shouldn't even come into it, it should go to the best person for the job. James Bond was written in mind with what a spy in the 1950s Mi5 would look like. Yes he would be a white, british male. But newsflash, its 2018; the films are not being made as if the period of time is in the 50s-90s. Why cant a black male be an agent at Mi5 today? No reason at all. Therefore there is no problem. |
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Post by Marv on Aug 17, 2018 15:00:38 GMT
What I'm saying is, I want Hollywood to get creative and develop new franchises, and new roles specifically for Black actors. That way, you aren't recasting traditional white roles with black actors just because. Developing new franchises out of thin air is risky and doesn't happen often. Hence the chances it will be successful are small and the chances of it having a black lead are also small. James Bond is a guaranteed hit, and it gives a black actor a rare chances to star in a established franchise. Colour of skin shouldn't even come into it, it should go to the best person for the job. James Bond was written in mind with what a spy in the 1950s Mi5 would look like. Yes he would be a white, british male. But newsflash, its 2018; the films are not being made as if the period of time is in the 50s-90s. Why cant a black male be an agent at Mi5 today? No reason at all. Therefore there is no problem. James Bond is also based on a long series of novels. It’s not like Hollywood didn’t have groundwork for the character. That’s most likely whats helped his longevity the most. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 17, 2018 15:24:05 GMT
I don't know. I'd say petty is not wanting someone to get a job because of the color of their skin. And this is where you spin my OP out of context to try and mold it to your weak point.
I don't care about the color of an actor's skin. What I'm saying is, I want Hollywood to get creative and develop new franchises, and new roles specifically for Black actors. That way, you aren't recasting traditional white roles with black actors just because.
That is worse. You are trying to pacify some ridiculous self righteous agenda about how Black people have been oppressed since they arrived in the United States. So we are going to let you be "James Bond" or "Superman" in a movie.
Wow... that's so nice of white Hollywood to do that.. (sarcasm)... that's actually a slap in the face of a black actor. I don't want to play a traditional white role if I'm a black actor. Why? Because now it's like you're doing it 'just because'.
Why not make a bad ass espionage film with a actor WRITTEN as a black male? That would be so much better. I'd love to see Idris Elba play a special agent, aging, not in his prime anymore, but experienced and intelligent who can still do things the younger agents can't. Not James Bond...
Argh.
Tradition doesn't mean anything.
No one is going to see Bond because he's always been a white dude. He can be played by anyone that qualifies to be a British spy.
If they created a 008, it would not get the box office 007 would and especially if they continued making Bond movies.
I think a lot of white people need to realize that there are a lot of circumstances that are not inherently unique to black people or if they are do not deviate too far from the white version of the script.
I know I've been known to drink a martini or two.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 0:26:34 GMT
I get so tired of people who get on the internet and use sarcasm and passive aggressive tactics then try and pass it off as superior intelligence. Which isn't something I did, so no real reason to bring it up. So, it seems like you don't actually have a reason. Or you do have a reason... but you don't want to say what it is. Because you're ashamed of it? I dunno. You couldn't come up with a reason why you think Bond must be white. Do you have a reason why he must be young? I mean, you could argue that only a young man could be fit enough to plausibly play a guy who runs around beating people up for a living. If that's your point then I'd say that I think you're wrong, and you are indeed being ageist in assuming that only young guys can do that. Or do you have some other reason why Bond would have to be young? Do feel free to give it. Or just have another little sulk, if you prefer. If you don't want traditionally white roles recast with black actors just because, then you actually do care about the colour of an actor's skin. You should stop saying you don't. |
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Post by Caesium137 on Aug 23, 2018 7:58:48 GMT
well @thegodfather looks like you wont have to be out as Idris Elba has ruled himself out of being the next Bond after the director also left due to creative differences.
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