|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 23, 2018 13:05:05 GMT
What I said in a previous thread:
Any Christian group could ask that of any other Christian group.
All you can do is compare the difference.
I imagine any group that follows in some way, shape, or form the teachings of Jesus can call themselves Christians.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 13:19:32 GMT
I take a Christian to be a person who believes in the teaching of Christ... He only gave one sermon, so a Christian is somebody who tries to live as set out in that.
All these denominations of organised religions with their added extras and places of worship are pish.
Christ taught on a hillside, to the common people, prostitutes, drunkards, etc. He scorned temples, and organised religion. He held those who profess to piety in contempt.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 23, 2018 13:53:11 GMT
I take a Christian to be a person who believes in the teaching of Christ... He only gave one sermon, so a Christian is somebody who tries to live as set out in that. All these denominations of organised religions with their added extras and places of worship are pish. Christ taught on a hillside, to the common people, prostitutes, drunkards, etc. He scorned temples, and organised religion. He held those who profess to piety in contempt. he didn’t scorn organized religion. He founded an organized religion lol. The sermon on the mount actually verified the order and organization Jesus expects of his disciples.
|
|
|
Post by geode on Aug 23, 2018 13:59:24 GMT
I am a member of some forums that would not allow the OP to have been posted. They prohibit just posting a link with no discussion. It is a very poor way to make an argument, or shows an inability to make one. If an argument is implied here, taken with a background of prior posting, then the OP would come from the very first Catholic I have ever encountered that attempts to promote their own sect by attempting to tear down the Mormons. This is generally the province of Evangelical Christians. In case anyone thinks I am defensively posting on the Mormon's behalf let it be known that I am feeling quite distant from them just now, and have my own set of criticisms. But they very much are Christians under any sensible definitions. The core of their beliefs is in the Bible. They attempt to follow all the teachings of Jesus. The video has one of the poorest attempts to discredit Mormonism as not being Christian that I have ever encountered. His understanding of what Mormons believe is superficial and flawed. I spent decades as a Mormon and roughly 10,000 hours in classes and meetings. I know much better what Mormons believe than he does. His very first claim is false. He says that Mormons claim that an angel came and gave Joseph Smith the revelation for the Book of Mormon. This is false. His main argument is they teach another gospel. What really constitutes "the gospel" ...? I would say it is the teachings of Jesus in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John not differences in belief about creation and cosmology. He says Mormons are polytheistic. This is a valid criticism from the point of view of true monotheistic faiths such as Jews and Muslims. The Mormon Godhead and the Trinity are similar concepts to try and explain the nature of God. Both really are polytheistic to a certain extent. The Trinity attempts to shove three gods into one, the Mormon Godhead keeps them separate but not equal, with all power and authority coming from the Father. He says that Mormons claim that God had sex with Mary. Well, Brigham Young did, but this is not a concept widely held by Mormons today, who generally hold to the same biblical passage about the Holy Spirit as Catholics and Protestants. Mormons becoming gods of their own planets? The president of the church twenty years ago started backing away from this concept. Mormons believe Jesus was the creator as well, under the authority of His father. Only God has Immortality? Mormons do not claim that man and God are co-eternal. He contradicted his earlier claim that Mormons claim that God created Jesus, Satan, and men. If so how can they all be co-eternal? Which does he wish to push? Mormons believe as other Christians that men can have eternal life with God going forward. He claims that Mormons do not believe God created man, but Mormons believe this as well. Mormons do not believe that people existed in spirit bodies before God started creation. They just believe in a two step process, first spiritual creation by God, then a physical creation...all done by God. He as a Trinitarian conflates the Father and Jesus. In doing so he creates a strawman about Mormons and then attacks them using it ignoring that they hold the two separate. No, Mormons do not believe men are equal with Jesus in the Melchizedek Priesthood. Mormons have about the same belief of faith and works as the Catholics. He is calling out Catholicism here as well. But at least here at the very end of his diatribe he finally gets to the Book of Mormon. Mormons feel they are saved by Grace. The interesting difference that he does not bring up is that they feel this salvation by Grace is extended to almost all men. He ignores James who wrote that faith without works is dead. This is really the difference. Can faith really exist by itself? He can't even pronounce Moroni correctly. This does not rhyme with Macaroni. The historicity of the BOM really is not relevant to the theology found within for this discussion. His claim that the Bible is consistent through all books by all writers is one that Mormons agree with, but non-Christians do not. Most of the theology in the BOM is quite consistent with the Bible, most is taken wholesale from it.
|
|
|
Post by Cody™ on Aug 23, 2018 15:27:36 GMT
geodeWhat’s with you vigorously defending a cult you’ve long since renounced? Mormons are not Christian because not only do they preach another gospel, they teach another Jesus, and a false god. Plus the founder is a demonstrably false prophet.
|
|
|
Post by general313 on Aug 23, 2018 15:55:41 GMT
NO!!! ONLY Catholics ARE ... TRUE Christians!! Even the Scottish ones?
|
|
|
Post by rachelcarson1953 on Aug 23, 2018 16:07:15 GMT
LOL, made me laugh! Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 23, 2018 16:12:06 GMT
geodeWhat’s with you vigorously defending a cult you’ve long since renounced? Mormons are not Christian because not only do they preach another gospel, they teach another Jesus, and a false god. Plus the founder is a demonstrably false prophet. there is such a thing as renouncing something honestly. I never uderstoood the rationale of pretending one has a point by making up stuff.
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Aug 23, 2018 16:36:11 GMT
I imagine any group that follows in some way, shape, or form the teachings of Jesus can call themselves Christians. The question is, does Mormonism count as one of these groups (according to your imagination). Do you believe that Mormonism is a religion that complies with the teachings of Jesus Christ.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 23, 2018 16:44:23 GMT
I imagine any group that follows in some way, shape, or form the teachings of Jesus can call themselves Christians. The question is, does Mormonism count as one of these groups (according to your imagination). Do you believe that Mormonism is a religion that complies with the teachings of Jesus Christ. it doesn’t make sense to think any Christian teaching besides my own complies with it. If they claim to be Christian because they claim to follow Christ then they are as Christian an organization as the Catholic Church. I don’t agree with either one of them so they are on the same level.
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Aug 23, 2018 16:50:06 GMT
The question is, does Mormonism count as one of these groups (according to your imagination). Do you believe that Mormonism is a religion that complies with the teachings of Jesus Christ. it doesn’t make sense to think any Christian teaching besides my own complies with it. That’s true, but that also doesn’t answer the question. In fact, it’s circular logic as you are beginning with the assumption that Mormonism is a “Christian teaching” in the first place. But that’s the question we are trying to resolve. OMG, this is one of the most braindead statements I’ve heard from you (and that’s saying a lot at this point). First of all, NO a group is not “Christian” because they claim to be Christian. That’s not even consistent with your own logic. You originally suggested that they were Christian IF they follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, not if they CLAIM to be Christians. So you are changing your own criteria here. Secondly, still you’re not actually answering the question. You keep answering with “ifs and buts” which is just more speculation. I’m not asking you whether you KNOW they are Christian or not. I’m simply asking your opinion. Do you believe Mormonism is consistent with Christianity? It’s a yes or no question!
|
|
|
Post by phludowin on Aug 23, 2018 16:54:20 GMT
geode What’s with you vigorously defending a cult you’ve long since renounced? Mormons are not Christian because not only do they preach another gospel, they teach another Jesus, and a false god. Plus the founder is a demonstrably false prophet. About the gospels, Jesus and God: Either you didn't read his post or didn't understand it. About false prophets: Any religion that claims that other prophets are false, but does not prove that their prophets are true, makes an argument against the existence of God. At least that's my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 23, 2018 17:00:20 GMT
it doesn’t make sense to think any Christian teaching besides my own complies with it. That’s true, but that also doesn’t answer the question. In fact, it’s circular logic as you are beginning with the assumption that Mormonism is a “Christian teaching” in the first place. But that’s the question we are trying to resolve. OMG, this is one of the most braindead statements I’ve heard from you (and that’s saying a lot at this point). First of all, NO a group is not “Christian” because they claim to be Christian. That’s not even consistent with your own logic. You originally suggested that they were Christian IF they follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, not if they CLAIM to be Christians. So you are changing your own criteria here. Secondly, still you’re not actually answering the question. You keep answering with “ifs and buts” which is just more speculation. I’m not asking you whether you KNOW they are Christian or not. I’m simply asking your opinion. Do you believe Mormonism is consistent with Christianity? It’s a yes or no question! i don’t think any Christian organization I don’t follow is consistent with Christianity except maybe Jehovahs Witnesses. That is not the same thing as acknowledging several Christian organizations can claim to be such based upon the view they are following Jesus Christ. After all that is in and of itself is a pretty low bar.
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Aug 23, 2018 17:06:34 GMT
That’s true, but that also doesn’t answer the question. In fact, it’s circular logic as you are beginning with the assumption that Mormonism is a “Christian teaching” in the first place. But that’s the question we are trying to resolve. OMG, this is one of the most braindead statements I’ve heard from you (and that’s saying a lot at this point). First of all, NO a group is not “Christian” because they claim to be Christian. That’s not even consistent with your own logic. You originally suggested that they were Christian IF they follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, not if they CLAIM to be Christians. So you are changing your own criteria here. Secondly, still you’re not actually answering the question. You keep answering with “ifs and buts” which is just more speculation. I’m not asking you whether you KNOW they are Christian or not. I’m simply asking your opinion. Do you believe Mormonism is consistent with Christianity? It’s a yes or no question! i don’t think any Christian organization I don’t follow is consistent with Christianity except maybe Jehovahs Witnesses. That is not the same thing as acknowledging several Christian organizations can claim to be such based upon the view they are following Jesus Christ. After all that is in and of itself is a pretty low bar. Thank you. But why was that so hard so say in the first place? Is it because you’re worried about coming off as endorsing Jehovah’s Witnesses? Or because you are being politically correct and trying not to imply that all other Christians are fake/false?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 17:27:57 GMT
I take a Christian to be a person who believes in the teaching of Christ... He only gave one sermon, so a Christian is somebody who tries to live as set out in that. All these denominations of organised religions with their added extras and places of worship are pish. Christ taught on a hillside, to the common people, prostitutes, drunkards, etc. He scorned temples, and organised religion. He held those who profess to piety in contempt. he didn’t scorn organized religion. He founded an organized religion lol. The sermon on the mount actually verified the order and organization Jesus expects of his disciples. Jesus hates you... He gave his sermon, and you choose to twist it to your own views. For shame, he was quite explicit😞
|
|
|
Post by geode on Aug 23, 2018 17:34:40 GMT
geodeWhat’s with you vigorously defending a cult you’ve long since renounced? Mormons are not Christian because not only do they preach another gospel, they teach another Jesus, and a false god. Plus the founder is a demonstrably false prophet. I guess you missed some of my posts on the old IMDb board where I vigorously defended Muslims, Catholics and other religious groups? I defend against falsehoods. Quite frankly I don't think you have the proper knowledge to make the claims you make here. I have not only personally studied the beliefs of several Christian sects, I have worshipped with them. For that reason I have a grasp upon where they are the same and where they are different. As I stated, and you have ignored, the central concept of Jesus in the LDS faith is virtually identical with other Christian sects. That is of the Messiah, the Saviour, and the Good Shepard as a teacher. The Mormons believe Christ atoned for the sins of mankind and was resurrected. They basically teach the gospel as set forth in the Bible. If you had ever attended their services you would discover this is true. Where they are different is adding a backstory about a "pre-existence" and a multi-tiered heaven with "eternal progression" wrapped up with temple rituals. I came to find some of this superfluous and unnecessary, although essentially harmless. Joseph Smith remains an enigma to me. Some of what he claimed is demonstrably false. But it is apparent to me that he died believing most of what he claimed or he was one heck of an actor. Even with his closest associates he stayed in character and never broke form.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 23, 2018 17:35:12 GMT
he didn’t scorn organized religion. He founded an organized religion lol. The sermon on the mount actually verified the order and organization Jesus expects of his disciples. Jesus hates you... He gave his sermon, and you choose to twist it to your own views. For shame, he was quite explicit😞 Don't be upset on the basis of something you havent read.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 17:39:32 GMT
Jesus hates you... He gave his sermon, and you choose to twist it to your own views. For shame, he was quite explicit😞 Don't be upset on the basis of something you havent read. I've read it, what I haven't done is try and shoehorn it in to what I want it to mean, unlike yourself.
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Aug 23, 2018 17:41:49 GMT
Don't be upset on the basis of something you havent read. I've read it, what I haven't done is try and shoehorn it in to what I want it to mean, unlike yourself. All of you do that. You just do it in different ways. But you all interpret it through your own preconceived ideas and worldview.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 23, 2018 17:42:26 GMT
i don’t think any Christian organization I don’t follow is consistent with Christianity except maybe Jehovahs Witnesses. That is not the same thing as acknowledging several Christian organizations can claim to be such based upon the view they are following Jesus Christ. After all that is in and of itself is a pretty low bar. Thank you. But why was that so hard so say in the first place? Is it because you’re worried about coming off as endorsing Jehovah’s Witnesses? Or because you are being politically correct and trying not to imply that all other Christians are fake/false? It wasn't hard to say since I said it in my first post. You would also be hard pressed to find a time I didn't endorse JW's. I don't care at all what people think I think of their religion. I tend to be respectful of all of them even if I don't agree.
|
|